Talk:Old Trafford

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	Old Trafford has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 6, 2008 Peer review Reviewed May 2, 2008 Good article nominee Listed Current Status: Good article

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Contents 1 Removed deleted image(s) 2 Article Name 3 Picture? 4 propose move 5 Extension to 91,000 6 Stadium Attendance (Premier League) 7 Groundsman 8 Fair use rationale for Image:Old old trafford.jpg 9 Fair use rationale for Image:Old old trafford.jpg 10 Fair use rationale for Image:Newoldtrafford.jpg 11 Playground of Philanthropists?? 12 GA review

[edit] Removed deleted image(s)

Just a note to say that I have removed some [or an] image[s] from the page beacuse they were speediable under either:

• Category:Images with no fair use rationale
• Category:Images with no copyright tag
• Category:Images with no source

Or similar category. Iolakana|^(talk) 18:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Name

Surely this should be Old trafford Stadium, as it is a stadium, and not a football, also it is not exclusivley used for football matches. I propose a move to Old Trafford (stadium). Anyone have any points? Philc _T^E_C^I 22:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Well given that it isn't actually called Old Trafford Stadium, but rather just "Old Trafford" I think the current article title is appropriate. Or a better option if it were to be moved would be simply to "Old Trafford" without the football qualifier as there is nothing else on Earth named "Old Trafford". Gateman1997 19:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I didnt make myself clear to my intentions, I meant Old Trafford (stadium) as opposed to Old trafford (football) given the multi use nature of the stadium, but yes, I would agree with a move to Old trafford aswell. Its just Old Trafford (football) to me atleast, has the implication that the thing is a football, which is odd. Philc _T^E_C^I 22:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I've set Old Trafford to redirect to this page. I'd advise keeping the title as it is, however, since it's useful to distinguish the football ground from the cricket ground. Also, any name change would mean having to change all the links to this page. --Daduzi ^talk 07:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

No because when you move a page, the previous page automatically becomes a redirect. Philc _T^E_C^I 16:31, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah, right, ignore my earlier point then. Still, all that being said the current situation seems acceptable. If this article is renamed to Old Trafford because Old Trafford (football) seems weird what do we do with Old Trafford (cricket)? --Daduzi ^talk 16:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, now that the situation is explained, the only way to do it to have Old Trafford (Football Stadium) and Old Trafford (Cricket Ground), but that just seems to perdantic to be worth the bother. Philc _T^E_C^I 22:07, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Both the cricket ground and the football ground are named after the area of Greater Manchester they are situated in, Old Trafford. I think that the name without a further qualifier should point to the area, with 'Old Trafford (football ground) ' and 'Old Trafford (cricket ground)' for the sporting venues. Dancarney (talk) 08:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. The most common usage of "Old Trafford" worldwide is obviously the football ground. The cricket ground is probably of secondary importance, followed by the locality, which I believe should be located at Old Trafford, Greater Manchester. – PeeJay 09:39, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Picture?

I've been looking at articles on all the other UEFA 5-Star european stadiums and they have pictures of the stadiums whereas this article just has the Man Utd emblem, shouldn't there be an image of the stadium instead?Mr. mister 13:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeh I thought that too, so I fished one out of the edit history. Som anonymous IP felt otherwise and had put the emblem there. Philc _T^E_C^I 19:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

yeah its much better now, thanks Mr. mister 13:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] propose move

Old Trafford id BIG AND BEAUTIFUL AND BOLDI can't help feeling that "Old Trafford (football)" is a most unsatisfactory name for this article. How would people feel if I proposed moving this page to "Old Trafford Stadium", with a view to moving the other Old Trafford to "Old Trafford Cricket Ground"? DJR (T) 21:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, but it'll probably be best to check over at Old Trafford (cricket) as well. --Daduzi ^talk 20:11, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Object - these are established, descriptive names and I see no reason to rename them. In particular, the cricket stadium is as much a stadium as is the football ground. There is no such address as Old Trafford Cricket Ground. TerriersFan 02:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Extension to 91,000

I can find no evidence on the internet of such a proposal and considering the proximity of a railway line beind the South Stand I'd imagine such a move just isn't possible. I suggest this part be removed. Niall123 17:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I recall seeing something about this on some page somewhere, but it was very unofficial and had no cited source. I agree about removing the suggesting section - I am going to be bold and do it myself now. DJR (T) 20:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill have both mentioned in past interviews the desire to increase the capacity of the South stand, and taking Old Traffords capacity to over 90 000. I think it deserves a mention. Paulscholesscoresgoals 18.33 2 January 2007

I remember reading recently in a Man U newsletter that Ferguson would like to see the stadium increased to 100,000. I'll add this is in when/if I can find the source. Krea 01:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

it was mentioned by the tour guide last time i went on the tour, they would need to build a huge tunnel like structure over the railway and buy the properties on the other side of the railway so they have space for evacuations and parking for an extra few thousand people. its not completly unrealistic but i'd expect 10-15 years before any work is done to acheive this. this work would bring the capacity above 90000, then you can talk about making it all a 3 tier bowl. again no sources --Numberwang 23:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stadium Attendance (Premier League)

2006-2007:
Average: 75,766 (includes 12 games thus far)
Total: 909,189 (includes 12 games thus far)

2005-2006:
Average: 68,767 (Stadium Capacity increased prior to the last 6 games)
Total: 1,306,568 (Only Premier league team this season to surpass the 1 million total mark)
--Df2k2 16:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Never done this editing thing before. The page says that Old Trafford will soon be joined by Wembley as the only 5 star UEFA stadium in England but the Wikipedia UEFA stadium page says Old Trafford, Wembley and The Emirates are all on UEFA's 5 star list. Joe 195.137.105.173 16:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Corrected it. Ta Whilding87 16:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

corrected it again because it says "one of only two..." as far as i am aware and the article on uefa rated stadia goes wembeley has not yet been granted such status so the article should read "the only 5-star ....."--Numberwang 23:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Groundsman

The head groundsman at Old Trafford is Tony Sinclair. I wasn't sure how to get this info into the article without it seeming a bit out of place, but it's there for you to use if you want. - PeeJay 01:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Old old trafford.jpg

Image:Old old trafford.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Old old trafford.jpg

Image:Old old trafford.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Newoldtrafford.jpg

Image:Newoldtrafford.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 10:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Playground of Philanthropists??

I was sure George Best referred to the ground as The Playground of Philanthropists?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.139.199 (talk) 13:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any such statement being attributed to George Best. – PeeJay 15:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe it was mentioned in The Good, The Bad and The Bubbly--81.106.139.199 (talk) 16:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Which is? – PeeJay 17:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

One of George Bests autobiographies--81.106.139.199 (talk) 13:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, like I said in one of my edit summaries, that nickname has never been used in common parlance, and therefore it shouldn't be included in the article. – PeeJay 13:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA review

• My first concerns about the article after a quick glimpse is the fact that all the images appear to be one the right hand side of the article, perhaps it would be worth moving a couple over to the left to make it look a little more visually appealing?
  • Probably a good idea. I'll see about shuffling a few of the images around a bit.
• "and is the only UEFA 5-star rated facility in England." - are we excluding Wembley from this statement as well?
  • According to this PDF document I found at Template talk:UEFA5Star, Old Trafford was England's only five-star stadium as of 31 May 2007. I don't know if any inspections have taken place that would have seen Wembley or the Emirates Stadium promoted to five-star status, but this is the best source we have to go on at the minute.
• "United's first game back at Old Trafford was played on 24 August 1949, as 41,748 spectators witnessed a 3–0 victory over Bolton Wanderers" - Perhaps this just me and my Cheshire self, but aren't Manchester and Bolton relatively close? If so, wouldn't it be worth saying that they are a "local club" in the statement?
  • I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.
• "The last international to be held at Old Trafford was England's 1–0 loss to Spain on 7 February 2007." - wouldn't be worth saying the attendance and who scored in that game?
  • I'll see about adding the attendance, but I'm not sure that the scorer is relevant.
• "Outside of football, several concerts have been played at Old Trafford, with such big names as Bruce Springsteen, Status Quo, Rod Stewart and Simply Red playing." Reviewer's opinion only! No Genesis?! :-P
  • Haha, I wasn't actually aware that Genesis had ever played at Old Trafford :D – PeeJay 11:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
• As a railfan, one could point out that British Rail Class 323s run the service at Old Trafford at the moment (although if your interested they'll be cascaded to London Midland by the next decade and North will have new EMUs to replace them.)
  • Not sure that the type of train used on the service is relevant, but it's a good piece of info to have on the talk page for the future.

Anyway, because I've found a lack of any reason to oppose the article, I've decided to pass and list this article as a GA. Although I'd like it if you went over my issues (however minor they are) and if your trying to get this article up to FA, I would suggest finding some hardback references (ie, books, magazines, journals, etc) for a more reliable reference because the article have a more web references than hardback which is probably what users at FAC level will be looking at straight away, also as a word of warning - try not to use the same book for the entire article like I did with Tom Pryce, although that got to FA because there is basically nothing on the guy other than one book. Anyway, give me a buzz if you wish for me a clarify a a point or two. Also, may I invite you to review this Ga-review as well - see my signature. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 10:23, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Cheers for reviewing the article, Skully. I have a hardback book about Old Trafford (both of them!), I just need to find the time to read through it and find any facts I'm missing out on :-D The only trouble is that the book I have is literally the only book about Old Trafford itself. Most other literature comes in the form of a couple of pages in a book about Manchester United. Anyway, cheers again for the review. Now I can focus on getting other Man Utd articles to the same standard in order to create a featured topic! – PeeJay 11:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)