Talk:Old Man Willow

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From Karo6 RE: BACKGROUND -- Is Old Man Willow a Huorn?

Tom tells the tale in Chapter 7 "In the House of Tom Bombadil":

Tom's words laid bare the hearts of trees and their thoughts, which were often dark and strange, and filled with hatered of things that go free upon the earth, gnawing, biting, breaking, hacking, burning: destroyers and usurpers. It was not called the Old Forest without reason ... and in it there yet lived, aging no quicker than the hills, the fathers of the fathers of trees, remembering times when they were lords. The countless years had filled them with pride and rooted wisdom, and with malice. But none were more dangerous than the Great Willow: his heart was rotten, but his strength was green; and he was cunning, and a master of winds, and his song and thought ran through the woods on both sides of the river. His grey thirsty spirit drew power out of the earth and spread like fine root-threads in the ground, and invisible twig-fingers in the air, till it had under its dominion nearly all the trees of the Forest from the hedge to the Downs." (FotR, chpt 7 "In the Houe of Tom Bombadil," hb ver, p. 141)

But, in an earlier version, we have the same general quote which has some significant data that was cut from the final, published LotR.

In a note from Chris Tolkien: "The passage concerning Old Man Willow was first written thus: 'Amongst his talk there was here and there much said of Old Man Willow, and Merry learned enough to content him (more than enough, for it was not comfortable lore), though not enough for him to understand how that grey thirty earth-bound spirit had become imprisoned in the greatest Willow of the Forest. The tree did not die, though its heart went rotten, while the malice of the Old Man drew power out of earth and water, and spread like a net, like fine root-threads in the ground, and invisible twig-fingers in the air, till it had infected or subjugated nearly all the trees on both sides of the valley.'" (History of the Lord of the Rings, part 1, "The Return of the Shadow," pp 120-21)

Apparently Old Man Willow was originally a composite creature, part evil "disembodied" spirit, and part a simple willow tree. No mention is made here of either Ents or their lesser sidekicks, the Huorns. From a note by CT, on p. 110, RotS, a general date for this early version is given as the summer of 1938, significantly before JRRT developed the vegetable-style Ents, and at a time when he was still playing around with the more traditional "anthropomorphic" Stone Giants, such as those found in The Hobbit.

If we accept JRRT at his word, I find it difficult to view Old Man Willow as even a potential Huorn.

Contents 1 Film version 2 Folklore 3 removed original research 4 removed copyrighted image and infobox

[edit] Film version

It's been a number of years since I saw the cinematic cut, but I thought the scene with the willow took place only in the extended edition on DVD. If I'm right, this should be noted in the article. - Hayter 11:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Folklore

Is any of the folklore that was listed under the title "trivia" actually relevant to the character? I added the English folklore because it could actually be a source. Goldfritha 04:36, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

moved to willow87.102.114.215 (talk) 23:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] removed original research

Sorry - the title says it all, also tidied a bit. (see above)87.102.114.215 (talk) 23:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] removed copyrighted image and infobox

Infobox contains specualtion and original research, image is copyright. Don't accept fair-use criteria here.87.102.114.215 (talk) 23:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)