Talk:Old King Cole

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Old King Cole was a merry old soul And a merry old soul was he; He called for his pipe, and he called for his bowl And he called for his fiddlers three.

Every fiddler he had a fiddle, And a very fine fiddle had he; Oh there's none so rare, as can compare With King Cole and his fiddlers three.

The instance of "pipe" need not imply a knowledge of tobacco. The term is very old, often referring to a musical instrument. Although "bowl" may well refer to something like a drinking bowl, the term is often used for gaming devices, and might be part of allusion to a general context of "merriment," but I wonder if the text has not become deformed. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, we have a reference dated about 1450 to the "lilt pipe, the lute, and the fiddle." Since lutes contained a bowl-like part, I wonder if the reference here is not to the lute.

In any case, it is not impossible that the nursery rhyme goes back to a period closer to the life of King Cole, presumably Coel Hen, who seems to belong to the early Fifth Century. We should also presume that the present nursery rhyme is a translation or rendition of an earlier bit, possibly in a Celtic language about Cole.

This information conflicts with the dates in Colchester. Hotlorp 03:27, 11 Jan 2004 (UTC)


On the lighter side: T.H. White mentions a song about Old King Cole in _The Once and Future King_.

     Whe-an Wold King Cole/ was a/ wakkin doon-t'street
     He saw a-lovely laidy a / steppin-in-a-puddle./
     She a lifted hup her skeat/
     For to / hop acorst ter middle,/
     An ee / saw her /an-kel.
     Wasn't that a fuddle?/
     Ee could'ernt elp it,/ee Ad to.
                                      (pp. 139-140)

Does anyone know whether this verse has any existence outside Mr. White's (admittedly fertile) imagination? If so, is it old or comparatively modern? Are there other King Cole songs or legends? Thanks! --Cladist Sun 21 Nov 2004

Colchester means Cole's Camp. Not Cole's Castle.

Coel Hen is sometimes credited for lending his name to the modern Scottish District of Kyle (in Ayrshire) where he said to have died (e.g. http://www.robertburns.org/encyclopedia/CoilusorCoila.223.shtml)...Kyle being a derivative of Coel. This corresponds to the old maps of the region (e.g. Coila Provincia - 1654) some of which can be viewed online at http://www.nls.uk/maps/

[edit] Introduction

Yes! This is the kind of introductions Wikipedia needs more of! I must say that whoever made that intro did a very good job of it. --81.97.192.106 11:38, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. I came to the talk page just to see if anyone else had the same opinion of this forthright intro that I did. Really an excellent way to go about it. Mr. IP (talk) 04:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The US military

The United States military also has a version in the form of a marching cadence during the 1980s

Oh, come on-- I have a Community Singing songbook (so it's from before the first world war) and it's British and it contains this version. Marnanel (talk) 21:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)