Talk:Old Fire

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Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit · refresh) Raymond Lee Oyler is not the suspect in the Old Fire. He is the suspect who has been charged in the Esperanza Fire in Riverside County.

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Assessment comments The following comments were left by the assessors: (edit · refresh) Raymond Lee Oyler is not the suspect in the Old Fire. He is the suspect who has been charged in the Esperanza Fire in Riverside County.
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Contents 1 Name 2 Neutrality issue 3 Neutrality 4 Removed previously named suspect as the "perpetrator."

[edit] Name

Any idea how they come up with names like Old Fire and Grand Prix Fire? Rl 09:24, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

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I don't know for sure about the Grand Prix Fire (may be related to the nearby racetrack in Fontana). The Old Fire, however is named for its origin, Old Waterman Canyon Road, north of San Bernardino. OWC Road is the old route ascending Waterman Canyon parallel to the SR330, the modern route.

Why on earth they didn't call it "Old Waterman Fire" or "Waterman Fire" I do not know. It certainly would have been more descriptive. Tuesdave 22:41, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

The Grand Prix Fire was named by Captain Fopiano, San Bernardino County Fire Department after the Street Grand Prix in Fontana California. The fire started near this location and often fires are named using the closest street to the fire.

[edit] Neutrality issue

[edit] Neutrality

The latter part of this article is not written in a neutral format; exclamation marks rarely follow dry facts. The statement that "San Bernardino County is widely known by residents for its corruption!" is not an encyclopedic fact, but an opinion.nitmd 15:38, 16 November 2006(CDT)

Good Lord. This article is incredibly biased. I was a captain on an Engine in the Cedar Glen area during the time the fire came through. I was just above the Cedar Glen Malt shop at 11 PM at night, (Uh..maybe that's why there was no aircraft flying?) when we witnessed incredible fire behavior including crowning. There was no way I was going down that canyon to the remote parts of Cedar Glen with the fire below me! 20:30, 20 November 2006 (Pacific)

I cleared up the bias and left some of the more usefol stuff that the person added. always remember to check the history to see how recently the biased stuff was added.--Acebrock 04:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to also contest the neutrality of this article. The "perpetrators" section on the right, in the box, is partially incorrect. They haven't convicted Oyler for sure, it's still an allegation. 172.191.28.127 04:06, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed previously named suspect as the "perpetrator."

I believe it has been unproven (the suspect originally named) committed this crime, and he is just considered a suspect. If he didn't do it, this article would be libel. Please include reliable sources and don't make such claims without proof. Wikipedia is not a place for unproven claims. You could post that "organization x believes he did it" but we can't state that he did it as fact because we do not know yet. Edward4321 10:25, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

-- In agreement with Edward4321-

With due respect to Edward 4321. The name of the previously named suspect was removed from the above and the main page. Although some media did touch on the fact that a man could be linked to the crime. He was never charged. We're on thin ice with running unattributed information. apologies to Edward for changing his/her copy.

No one was ever charged with setting the Old fire, which directly killed 6 people. The fire started in the City of San Bernardino, yet the San Bernardino Sheriff's department handled the investigation. They found the van that was reported as throwing lighted objects from the window into the brush, yet they didn't arrest the owner and driver. The Sheriff's department has not publicly identified any of the determined occupants of the van. Who were those people? At the time it was rumored that the arsonists were distant relatives of Mayor Judith Valles who lived in Los Angeles County, once the Sheriff's department reached that conclusion, any further investigation stopped. The City of San Bernardino is very quick to determine any event as a disaster area due to the $millions of federal funds that are released to the City to deal with the "disaster". In San Bernardino, where the arson rate is 10 times the national average, and City officials have been found to be involved in the setting of fires, http://www.goodbadcorrupt.com/showthread.php?t=912 it must be politically embarrassing for the City to have people connected with the City government responsible for the downtown arsons, and possibly involved in setting the Old fire. Until the results of the investigation are made public, we as the people who lost during the Old fire will never know.

75.23.186.36 (talk) 19:13, 1 June 2008 (UTC)