Talk:Ohio State University/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Contents

Miscellaneous

Is there any real need for a massive section of links in the middle of the article? Also, many parts of this page are woefully outdated (the Buckeye Bullet story isn't new or particularly relevant to the University itself). I'd say this whole article needs a massive renovation.

Any football fans out there? The Ohio State Buckeyes football team really needs its own page. Unfortunately, I hate football...  ; ) There should also be something about the campus riots from the past few years. Postdlf 12:04 5 Apr 2004 UTC

I added some external links. CES 03:35, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Added info on Student Orgs and government, and had to correct a few of my own errors, but all should be well. Nja247 23:10, 05 Feb 2006

Elaboration of Campus section

OSU has a historical campus full of interesting buildings both old and new. (Orton Hall and Rpac) Perhaps someone with some knowladge could expound upon this?

I second that request. While the article is good, it could be better. OSU is huge and has a lot of history, but little of that history is discussed. I'm not comfortable going at it alone, as I have little knowledge of details myself. Nicholas 15:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
I have added a link to a brief description of Orton Hall. Please elaborate if you have additional info.


This page is incorrectly titled

The correct name of this university is The Ohio State University, not just Ohio State University. I motion to have this page moved to a new one under the correct heading. Please comment on this. Gmcapt 06:26, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Motion seconded and carried! --Taoster 19:11, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I am moving it back to Ohio State University; see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (definite and indefinite articles at beginning of name)#Universities. If we use the word "the", we'd be making this page name inconsistent with the pages of other universities which officially have "the" at the beginning of the name but do not use "the" at the beginning of the page name. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 01:12, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)
Thank you. You don't know how annoying that "The" silliness is to those of us who've attended other state universities in Ohio. -- SwissCelt 15:10, 17 July 2005 (UTC) (whose alma mater is Another Ohio State University in Bowling Green)
Hey, take it up with your state representative, please! The university was named by an act of elected officials, it's not merely an affectation, and this document is here to report facts, not opinions. To be fair, though, since we all call the school "Ohio State" anyway and it conflicts with wikipedia conventions, the page needs to stay where it is, under "Ohio State University" -- Bricoleur 21:00, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Are we settled on "The Ohio State University?" I disagree with SwissCelt, whatever the point was, but I would prefer to keep to the naming conventions.Rkevins82 03:30, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
"The" Ohio State University, besides being hopelessly pretentious, violates the naming conventions. You're essentially penalizing people (and Wikipedia's servers) for neglecting to type "The" in the search box. Please move it back to Ohio State University. -- SwissCelt 02:21, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Done. SwissCelt you were welcome to move it.Rkevins82 05:42, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. While I was certainly able to move it, I wasn't certain that I was welcome to do so. As the article had been moved at least once, and possibly twice before, I thought there should be a consensus before I would feel welcome to move it again. -- SwissCelt 00:58, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

"The" Ohio State University should be the name. The "naming conventions" policy referenced by Lowellian were simply invented by him without any consensus. I'll check back in a few days for comments and then likely officially move to rename it. --Gopple 23:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The article says "The Ohio State University" already. Stick with the Wikipedia article naming conventions. That Lowellian invented the naming conventions on his own is downright silly. JDoorjam Talk 23:24, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
The "naming conventions" policy referenced by Lowellian is a logical extrapolation of Wikipedia:Use common names. john k 23:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Ohio law does pretty clearly states the name of the University to be "The Ohio State University". R.C. 3335.01 ("The educational institution originally designated as the Ohio agricultural and mechanical college shall be known as "The Ohio State University."). However, seeing that a similar statute says the name of Ohio University is "The Ohio University," (R.C. 3337.01) and no one at OU seems to care one way or the other, some people at OSU may be taking themselves a little too seriously. Peyna 01:23, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't see how the legally incorrect name usage at one place invalidates the legally correct name usage in another. The matter is moot, as The Ohio State University points to Ohio State University. Rkevins82 20:10, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikiproject: Universities template

I have applied the template that is outlined at the Wikiprojects: Universities page. Please add/delete as necessary. --Taoster 19:15, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Need to clarify?

Recent edit added a phrase clarifying (I suppose) that there is more than one OSU. The editer added Oklahoma State and Oregon State that go by the same abbreviation. Is this really necessary? US(outh)C(arolina) and US(outhern)C(alifornia) are without notice, as are UT(exas) and UT(ennessee). I doubt many people confuse schools in Oregon, Ohio and Oklahoma, Tennessee and Texas, or California and South Carolina.Rkevins82 04:03, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

And....you would be wrong. Being "from" the great state (minus Jessie Helms) of North Carolina, I can firmly say there is great confusion over "USC" and "UT" both!! As for OSU, I don't get that one a lot, but I definitely see the problem. USC, as in Southern California has a a lock on much of the country, but in the Carolina's and presumably in SEC country in general, there is issue. There is so much confusion over UT, in fact, that I don't have any idea which would be considered by most to be "UT." I've lived in the South my whole life, and UT has ALWAYS been Tennessee, but my uncle-in-law is from Texas and UT means Texas to him....those crazy Texans... Dawhitfield 01:06, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. I've seen the error in my ways and tried to clear-up the pages in question. As a Buckeye fan though, there is only one OSU, and this year, only one UT ;> Rkevins82 04:51, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Items that could use mention

- Further broken-down rankings of US News
- Mention of The Ohio State fight song & Carmen Ohio
- More about campus culture (?) It doesn't mention Mirror Lake or the Oval.

Just ideas! JD79 18:58, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

More thoughts - the alleged haunting of the spire at Orton Hall and some of the legends about the oval...possibly stuff about the old steam tunnels. JD79 23:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Better Logo PLEASE

I am extremely disappointed with the image used on OSU's page. While other schools' pages have official seals or logos that look quite impressive, Ohio State's has a photograph featured as a wallpaper on the university's website.

Could someone please find an actual professional looking OSU logo to put on the page? The square logo would be great; the official seal, in color, would be even better.

--buckeyes1186 05:03, 19 October 2005 (UTC)


The university seal is not a logo but a symbol reserved for use by the Board of Trustees for items such as official documents, diplomas, and certificates. University offices should substitute the use of the university logo for the use of the official seal. Requests for use of the seal should be directed to the Office of the Board of Trustees at (614) 292-6359 or University Marketing Communications at (614) 292-4272. --Bricoleur 06:36, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree that a new logo needs placed on this page. I'd like to see the Red Square logo.

Could someone, a student or faculty member perhaps, request the logo and place it on the page?

Today I emailed a guy from photography relations about getting a logo or seal licensed under GFDL. We'll see what happens...Sanjayhari 22:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I've uploaded and updated the red university logo. I'm a student there and had it on my computer. I also uploaded the OSU seal, but thought that the red logo looked better. If anyone can find a good place for the seal (OhioStateSeal.jpg) feel free to put it in the page somewhere.

Research?

Its a bit pathetic we dont' have a research section. It sort of reinforces the impression that OSU is a big giant football field. One notable thing that should be mentioned is that OSU is one of the few unviersities in the United States (I think their maybe a dozen) that does significent research in Mathematical Logic -- which is linked with theoretical CS and AI theory. Thats actually a big, emerging field. Ontop of that OSU is top 20 or 25 for Physics research.

There are a couple strong non-trivial depts that OSU is decent (or getting better) at... what i mean by decent is around the graduate research ranking of 21 - 35. The fact that OSU is like within the top 10 institutions on Research spending should also be mentioned....

I'm up to the 1940's on the history section and am curious if anybody might know what prominent war-related research projects took place at Ohio State. My guess is that much of it was centered in the engineering college. I seem to remember reading once that Hoyt Sherman's methods of teaching art (that Lichtenstein found very influential) was used to teach pilots to quickly recognize aircraft types. I paln on going through some of the oral histories, but I have a hunch they really aren't relevant until the 1960's.

University template

The template cuts info and I would like to revert it, but would like some feedback. Rkevins82 05:21, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I think the template that was in use before looks janky, both in appearance and in the underlying old-fashioned html representation. Wikipedia already has a predefined style for organizational taxonomies and it seems like it should be used here. The information that was removed is present elsewhere in the page, but if you're adamant that it be present in the taxonomy, I'm sure thee's a way to extend it somehow. --Bricoleur 06:58, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
The old infobox was ugly. However, there is no way to extend the current template. I would prefer information over aesthetics. Rkevins82 18:01, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
I've been looking at the documentation for the taxobox, and I'll just define a new template with the same appearance and the information present in the old table layout. --Bricoleur 12:10, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks Bricoleur. Rkevins82 23:26, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Infomation needed to be added in Category:Ohio State University

People who know more about TOSU should create and add more details and information (such as more pictures and web pages about certain facilities or programs) that are related to the university and link them to the category page.

Here is the link to the Category:Ohio State University,(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ohio_State_University)

Buckeyes

Buckeyes incorrectly links to the OSU page now. The word could refer to a number of things. Rhhs 22:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I redirected Buckeyes so it points to Buckeye. - EurekaLott 19:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Scandals

The end of the athletics section discusses recent academic scandals involving Jim O'Brien and Maurice Clarrett. I am going to remove this statement, and before people jump on me for being an alum let me explain why. The "Maurice Clarrett Scandal" is a total non-scandal. After being relieved from the team, he said he was paid from boosters and coaches and made many allegations. The fact is that nothing came from this nearly two years later. He declined to interview with the NCAA about these supposed infractions and no action ever came from the incident. In the case of former coach Jim O'Brien, he loaned money to the mother of a player who was looking at OSU for school. The player did not come to OSU and the only action taken was a self-imposed one by the university. Jim O'Brien is actually suing the university for wrongful termination since he didn't do anything one. Once again this is not really a scandal, and actually not really that recent either, since it has been over a year or two now. Anyone who wants to revert the edits could kindly give their reasoning here before editting wars start. -Thebdj 01:11, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Academics, Alumni Section & Hockeye Link

I think that there should be a section on academic achievements and rankings that is at least the size of the athletic section. After all, by varying rankings, Ohio State is somewhere between the 30th (U of Florida Center for Research University Data) and 60th (USN&WR) ranked major university in the US, as well as the top rated public university in Ohio, ranks 15th (public or private) for the amount of research conducted and has an endowment that's closing in on two billion dollars. Also, it should be pointed out that with the abandonment of Jim Rhodes' admissions policies in 1987, that were directed in large part towards the university he flunked out of as a freshman, Ohio State has also become the most selective public university in Ohio (although admittedly the numbers between it and Miami(OH) are very close). As is done with athletic conference affiliations we should also have a link section for the other CIC schools.

The alumni section is very disorganized and unruly. Could we break it up into catagories, as is done on the Michigan page? As for the inclusion of Jeffrey Dahmer, I have to question its logic. It's my understanding that he attended the university for only one quarter before flunking out, so his time here certainly didn't shape what he would later become. Had he graduated from Ohio State or committed any of his crimes while attending, I think that he would certainly merit inclusion. As it is, I'm not so sure.

Also, we should add Ohio State's conference affiliation in men's hockey, which is the CCHA. Sam Harmon 21:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

History

I've added a paragraph expanding on Ohio State's rather quick emergence as the state's flagship university, noting both its 1916 inclusion into the AAU and the role of Governor Davis (21-23) in funding the expansion of Ohio State's physical plant. I'm new to this, so any suggestions or pointing out errors that I've made is entirely welcome. (Sam Harmon 21:34, 24 April 2006 (UTC))

Endowment

I've corrected the university's endowment to reflect its total at year's end 2005. Here's my reference: [1] --Sam Harmon 05:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

External Link Changes

The Sentinel is not a "right-wing" newspaper, it is merely an alternative political opinion paper, and publishes articles of a variety of political views. Changing the description from the "right-wing" to the more accurate term "op-ed" is completely valid and shouldn't be subject to needless alterations.

Hobbes557 16:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

  • I agree that the term "right-wing" was inflammatory. The sentinel is, however, a stridently conservative or "neo-conservative" paper and proudly identifies itself as such on its website. I think that either of the above two phrases give a much more accurate description of the newpaper, its self-described mission and the role it plays on campus than does "op-ed."--Sam Harmon 18:06, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


    • The present website of The Sentinel is experiencing a "re-branding" of sorts, and no longer describes itself as a strictly conservative paper. This is the full mission statement as taken from their website:
      "The mission of the Sentinel is to serve as a campus voice of reason, to enhance the intellectual environment on campus and locally, and to serve as a forum of ideas among those who embrace life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The Sentinel is a premier organization committed to providing experience to students entering fields of journalism, politics, and business, by offering opportunities in writing, editing, website and newspaper layout, publishing, sales, finance, marketing, and argumentation."
      As such, the Sentinel expresses no official political orientation, and I think the description should be politically ambiguous to reflect the fact that the political statements expressed in the Sentinel are the view of the authors of articles rather than the viewpoint of the paper itself. Hobbes557 19:22, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Then, what should be the proper term? I think "political opinion" paper is accurate and ideologically neutral. Taken literally, "op-ed" makes no sense as a descriptor. Op-ed is derived from "opposite the editorials" and refers to the physical layout of the section in a newspaper not the actual content.--Sam Harmon 04:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Alumni Section

If nobody has any objections, I have a long overnight flight to Europe this weekend and would like to use the time to organize the alumni section into catagories (i.e. business, arts & literature, politics & diplomacy etc.), as well as adding a section for notable faculty members.--Sam Harmon 17:53, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I have already done this in a text file. I can post the recommendations this weekend and we can collaborate. Rkevins82 20:29, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I posted my changes before I saw your note. Sorry. Feel free to look over what I've done and merge it with what you've been working on. As I've mentioned previously, I am new to this and am unsure how to collaborate on an article without posting it first. Your help in this regard would be very welcome. Thanks again. --Sam Harmon 20:12, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

"Public Ivy" Designation

I'm curious as to the removal of Ohio State's inclusion in the 2001 publication of a listing of "public ivy" institutions. While I think that both this edition and the 1986 book that included Miami(OH) tend to be overly subjective and not the best available rankings, they are legitimate references--in both cases. I also question the motivation for its removal by an anonymous editor whose primary edits have been on the Ohio University page. I am working on a more detailed section of rankings and academic points of pride for Ohio State and plan on reinstating it there--unless someone can make a strong argument for its exclusion. --Sam Harmon 14:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

That sounds appropriate. Don't worry about the list page. You have put signigificant work into it and I will probably only make a few changes. Also, please sign with four tildes, as that makes it easier to leave you comments. Rkevins82 04:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Its probably because such a designation would be embarassing! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.211.223.251 (talk • contribs)

Miami President Stanton & founding of Ohio State

I'm curious as to the details of how the Miami president was "instrumental" in the founding of Ohio State other than simply failing to gain the land-grant status for his own institution. Even Miami's own official history, The Miami Years makes no mention of his role other than Miami's failed effort to be designated the land-grant institution. I'm going to leave it in place until I can do some more research on Ohio State's earliest years; however, I am starting to believe that this may be another apocryphal story that floats around the Miami campus as fact. Does anybody have any relevant ref. on the matter? --Sam Harmon 16:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I've reworded this section to more accurately reflect the founding of Ohio State and the peripheral role that Miami and OU's failure to gain the land-grant played. Seriously, only the "mother miami" mentality could take a failure so colossal that it resulted in the university closing down and somehow spin it into some "point of pride."--Sam Harmon 18:58, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Heisman potentials come to "die"

Under the football section, I think it would be interesting to have a trivia comment about those in the Heisman Trophy race. Many times after a team plays the Buckeyes, the player's "stock" seams to drop rapidly (except Woodson). Despite the "Unwin" (yeah, yeah, I'm a fan, sue me.) to Texas the Texas player who was up for the running, his "stock" dropped after the game. S.Rodgers--65.24.77.104 18:56, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Date of Curriculum Vote

I've changed the date of the vote on Ohio State's early curriculum and focus to 1873. Referance: [2]. I can't find any competing referance that it occurred in 1878, which wouldn't make sense anyways as the university's opening curriculum reflected the expanded focus.--Sam Harmon 21:24, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Alumni & Time Magazine Covers

I would like to add several Time Magazine covers that have featured Ohio State alumni to the alumni page. I've added two that were already in use elsewhere on wickipedia. In researching this, I found that there was a rather contentious debate concerning the use of Time Magazine covers as it relates to copyright and fair use concerns. This appears to have been resolved in favor of their use as low-resolution thumbnails. I'm a little unsure as to how to upload them with all the proper tagging and "fair use" explanations, so that they won't be deleted.

Done. I just hope I did it right.--Sam Harmon 09:26, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Organization Revisited

The "Organization" section really makes the article look awkward--bisecting the middle of the article with a long list of external links. I don't know how to resolve keeping the content in a more elegant manner, but it is something that should be considered.--Sam Harmon 16:50, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I looked at other Big Ten university articles, and the few that do include some form of organization table do so at the end of the article. I've made the Ohio State page similar, which IMHO makes the overall page much more clean and flowing.--Sam Harmon 19:00, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

2006 NFL Draft

Now don't get me wrong, I love OSU football. But, information on the 2006 NFL draft and the players who went to which teams seems a bit out of place. Seems like it should have it's on seperate page or something. If included here, you should include every year of the draft and every Buckeye that has ever been drafted. I realize 2006 was a stand out year because so many Bucks were drafted, but I don't think it belongs in this article. I'll wait for replies, but I plan on removing the section if there are no reasonable objections. --Scotsworth 03:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but just don't want to get into an edit war over football. I do think that Ohio State sports should have a seperate article, with the main Ohio State article just hitting the highlights.--Sam Harmon 04:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone interested in making a seperate OSU sports article? All of the information about the 2006 draft, while concise, is out of place in this article, and i'm tempted to delete it altogether. --Scotsworth 18:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
There should be a serperate "Ohio State Buckeyes" article, linked from the main Ohio State article. Seeing as the main article still needs some work and athletics are not my primary interest, I'm not going to take it on. To make the Ohio State article worthy of Featured Article status, however, it will eventually need to be done. At to the 2006 draft info, I feel that it has the shelf-life of a firefly. In other words, by August it needs to go.--Sam Harmon 00:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Flagship status

I want to dispute the "flagship" status of OSU in the realm of Ohio higher education. That remark is unqualifiable. OSU does have the most students of any school in Ohio, unfortunately all that does is make them the loudest.

I'm not certain that the use of the term flagship is inappropriate, and the statement makes it clear that this is a matter of perception. The term is used often by the University's Presidents, and in vaious places outside of the school[3][4]. Do you just want to complain or do you want to suggest more neutral language that reflects the school's relatively much larger enrollment, faculty, and budget? (Please sign talk pages by typing four tildes, "~~~~.") -MrFizyx 02:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to Berdahl's speech. He couldn't have stated better the situation in Ohio, where a lack of control and leadership combined with pork barrel politics has led to every lesser state school feeling entitled to try and become something they're not.--Sam Harmon 17:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Whether, the Ohio Board of Regents chooses to officially designate Ohio State the flagship university or not, the fact remains that it is the flagship and is widely viewed as such both in Ohio and outside the state--and that is the point the article makes. This has nothing to do with football or the number of students, and everything to do with Ohio State's rankings (undergraduate, graduate and research) vis-a-vis Ohio's other public universities. When another Ohio university matches Ohio State in the rankings, has ANY members of the National Academies on its faculty or gets accepted to the AAU, we can reopen this discussion. The history section also makes it clear that the state government 100 years ago did make Ohio State the flagship university, and the decentralized and redundant system we're stuck with today is largely a product of Jim Rhodes populist, anti-intellectual policies of the 1960's and 1970,s.--Sam Harmon 15:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I disagree on two points. First, Ohio State University is not the flagship, as it does not hold an official position above the other universities in the state, is younger than many, and only in the last few decades has achieved the degree of academic standing it has today. Second, Sam, I disagree with your reading of Ohio's history with regards to university. From before the founding of the university until today the state has consistently favored maintaining balance between the universities. An early example is the state's rejection of folding OU and Miami into a state system under OSU, instead hoping they would serve different populations and geographic constituencies. More recently the state has capped enrollment at Ohio State, also capping the aid it can receive, while not doing this to any other university. Rhodes' policies with regards to higher education may not be popular, but for poor reasons. His administration built the infrastructure for the improvements at Ohio State in the 1980's and 1990's through the capital budget. Yes, he invested in community colleges throughout the state. That decision is still popular among many, as it keeps college "within reach" of students, reduces costs, and serves the technical professions. Rkevins82 22:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I think you bring up some interesting questions, Rkevins82. Yes, it's true that OU and Miami were not folded into a single university system. There is also equal, if not more compelling, evidence that the Ohio legislature did intend on Ohio State being at the very least first among equals. Three specifics spring immediately to mind. First, in 1891 when Ohio State became the first public university funded by a permanent tax levy. Second, the Eagleson Bill in 1906 which prohibited Miami and OU from offering doctoral education or conducting basic research and third the 1921 university building fund which was split 72-14-14 between Ohio State, OU and Miami. As to the relative youth of Ohio State, this is one area where Ohio's system of higher education is somewhat unique. If one reads Berdahl's speech on what defines a "flagship university" he does make an allowance for not being the oldest university in the state when the university was founded under the Morrill Land]Grant Act. As to academic reputation, yes Ohio State's has increased significantly in the last two decades, but I would argue that it was always ahead of Miami and OU even in the darkest days of the Jim Rhodes policies--particlularly in terms of graduate/professional education and research, which is a fundamental basis of a "flagship university." AAU membership is probably the most significant factor here. Remember also that there also wasn't this mania over college rankings until the mid to late eighties. The enrollment limits were actually instituted with the blessing of Ohio State. They saw it as a necessary step in abandoning the conditional admissions policies of the 60's and 70's and also saw it as preventing a future governor from reviving Rhodes' plans for a 100,000 student Ohio State. Ed Jennings and Herb Asher are very clear about this in their oral history interviews. I'm not saying that everything Rhodes' touched was bad. Ohio clearly needed a community college program. His policies, however, did hold Ohio State back (at least on the undergrad level) twenty years, inherently favored quantity over quality (as in the "a four year campus within 30 miles of every Ohioan")and led to a bloated and redundent higher education system, that, given current tax structures, Ohio can not afford. BTW, thanks for the book recommendation. I found a copy from a used bookstore in Seattle.--Sam Harmon 00:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
This discussion seems rather moot given that the initial complaint has remainded that user's only edit. I gather that someone was just blowing off a bit of steam. The article never implies that OSU is an "official flagship." -MrFizyx 00:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps, but knowing how dearly some partisans of other Ohio colleges cling to this Lake Wobegon view of higher education in Ohio--where every college is above average and there's no seperation between them and Ohio State, it's probably best to settle and define the issue now.--Sam Harmon 00:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Template:Ohio_State_University

I would appreciate some feedback and assistance with the tasks identified (or any others you believe we need).

The Ohio State University v • d • e 

Campuses

Columbus Main Campus • Delaware Center • Lima Campus • Mansfield Campus • Marion Campus • Newark Campus • Ohio Agricultural Research and Development Center • OSU Agricultural Technical Institute

Academics

Center for Interdisciplinary Law and Policy Studies • College of Medicine and Public Health • Max M. Fisher College of Business • Moritz College of Law • Reading Recovery • Ross Mathematics Program

Athletics

Bill Davis Stadium • Brutus Buckeye • Illibuck • Jerome Schottenstein Center • UM-OSU Rivalry • Ohio Stadium • Ohio State University Golf Club • OSU Ice Arena • St. John Arena • Woody Hayes Athletic Center

Facilities

Hilandar Research Library Ohio State University Airport • Ohio Union • Orton Hall • Wexner Center for the Arts • William Oxley Thompson Memorial Library

Media

Buckeye TV • The Lantern • WOSU (AM) • WOSU-FM • WOSU-TV / WPBO

Research

The Big Ear • Buckeye Bullet • Byrd Polar Research Center • Stone Laboratory • Chadwick Arboretum • James Cancer Hospital • Large Binocular Telescope • Mershon Center for International Security Studies • Mobius project • Newman projection • Sarah (chimpanzee)

Student life

Across the Field • Buckeye Battle Cry • Buckeye NutHouse • Carmen Ohio • Hang on Sloopy • Activities & Organizations • The Ohio State University Marching Band

The logo we have on the Ohio State University page does not have the correct colors for the web, as shown here. Rkevins82 23:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


It looks very good. One thing is that the blue links and text wash out against the red background, making it very hard to see. Maybe a lighter, brighter shade of red would solve the problem.

You have the John Glenn school listed twice. I'd add the Mershon Center. It's one of the universities more prestigious departments or centers, and it does have its own wikipedia article.

The Hilander Research Library also has a wikipedia article.

If we're going to have the Big Ear, we should also include the Mount Graham telescope, which is actually more relevent these days.--Sam Harmon 17:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Buckeye NutHouse

Hi. I've been putting together pages for each of the Big Ten's basketball student sections and was wondering if someone would be interested in expanding and maintaining that of the Buckeye NutHouse. Thanks! --BroadSt Bully 13:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

University Area, Columbus, Ohio

Someone created this which I'm assuming is a neighborhood in Columbus named for its location? I think that's what it is at least. Would someone mind taking a look at it and improving it since its related to the university. Metros 19:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


I just wasted a little time on it, and I think it's now pretty neutral and reasonably well thought out. Dhimelright 19:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

So-called "vandalism" on 12 August 2006

Hi there. I'm the Wikipedian who wrote the edits that User:Sam Harmon reverted as "vandalism". I maintain, however, that my edits were designed to strive for less POV in the article. If I may explain, a previous edit cited US News and World Report's survey in claiming that tOSU is the "best public university in Ohio." While true, the claim is somewhat disingenuous when one realizes that Ohio State is tied for the 21st best public university in the US, and that Miami University is ranked just one place below that (at 26th). Moreover, Ohio State is not the "flagship institution" in the Ohio "system of higher education"; primarily because Ohio has no singular system of higher education. OSU-Columbus is as much-- and no more-- a "flagship" as the main campuses of Kent State University and Bowling Green State University, to name but two others. Let's try to maintain a sense of perspective when editing this article, and not turn this into another BCS and Ohio State fan page. -- SwissCelt 22:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Here would be my arguments to each of the above two points:
First, with regards to the USN&WR ranking, when this article or any other university article, mentions its rankings they need to be done accurately and with source citations. There is no wikipedia convention that says one must place them in a relative context with competing schools. And even if this is true, would SwissCelt then allow that what's good for the goose is good for the gander--i.e. that the Miami page detail MU's USN%WR ranking in the context of being ranked behind Ohio State?
Second, with regards to the flagship institution statement, the fact of the matter is (and the article is clear about this) is that Ohio operates a decentralized system of higher education and that Ohio State is widely considered the flagship institution of that decentralized system. The specific source citation is to a speech by the UC Berkeley Chancellor (and former president of U. Texas-Austin) directly concerning the definition and role of flagship universities. To this one could add numerous other arguments in Ohio State's favor including graduate and undergraduate rankings, quality of the faculty (more Guggenheim fellows than all other Ohio universities public or private comobined, more National Academies of Sciences and Engineering members than all other Ohio universities public or private combined, more Nobel Prize winning faculty than all other Ohio universities and so on) Library resources (18th largest university research library in North America), research (more research condcuted annually than all other Ohio public universities combined), the historical background behind Ohio State's founding, the Eaglson Bill of 1906 which by law banned other Ohio universities from offering doctoral education or conducting basic research, and I could go on...and on...and it has absolutely nothing to do with football or size!
The fact is that in certain quarters of Ohio there is an almost maniacal drive to believe in a "Lake Wobegon" version of higher education where all universities are created equal and all are above average. Sadly, this is not the real world situation. Whereas if somebody in Michigan were to argue that there was no fundamental difference between Western Michigan and Michigan--Ann Arbor they would be laughed out of existence, in Ohio some choose to believe in such wishful thinking.
I think you'll find that there are many in Michigan who will compare the University of Michigan with Michigan State University. Though this does raise an interesting point: Why should Ohio State be viewed as the more august university in Ohio, when Ohio University is clearly older? Indeed, both Ohio University and Miami University predate not only Ohio State but also the University of Michigan. Or, to use an example I cited on my talk page, who would consider Iowa State University the flagship institution of Iowa public post-secondary education when there is the University of Iowa? Only in Ohio do we take a Morrill Act institution and declare it superior to older institutions. -- SwissCelt 00:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I think if you're talking about considering designating an institution as a "flagship", that takes into account several potential meanings and implications. Age might have something to do with it, but I think that the overall public perception is a more important factor. Obviously this is just conjecture, but I would imagine that if you asked someone to think of the University that most represents Ohio, you would probably find that most people would say Ohio State. In addition, OSU's endowment, coupled with it's overall financial impact, is unmatched by any other public university in Ohio. The extensive medical complex alone, which could be seen as combining both endowment and finance, sets OSU apart from virtually every other public institution in Ohio. Also, OSU was recently recognized as the 19th best public University in America by US News & World Report, making it the only Ohio university in the Top 20, something that should be reflected in the main page. I guess what I'm getting at is that while a school like Miami Oxford is an excellent institution, in terms of resources and visibility, it pales in comparison to Ohio State. A centralized university system is by no means necessary for there to be a "flagship" university in Ohio.

As someone born and raised in Ohio but who attended school elsewhere, I would say Ohio State is considered by most as Ohio's Flagship University. This is because it is not only the largest university in the state, but the oldest to be designated -- prior to the 20th Century -- as a 'comprehensive' public U: an undergrad liberal arts school supporting professional schools like law, medical, engineer, along with multiple Ph.D programs (while it did not have all these units by 1900, it's pretty clear, looking at history, most pols and academicians at the time understood OSU would be getting them)... All that said, I still think most people would widely agree that, despite any USN&WR ranking -- which is influenced by grad research reputation -- Miami is clearly the better (more competitive, prestigious, traditional, etc.) undergrad school. OSU has become considerablly more competitive but, as we all know, it was an open admissions school BY LAW until around 1987, while Miami, for over a century, was able to circumvent this law (which applied to all state schools) by saying: it was open admissions to all who could commute to campus -- and, of course, we know how isolated Miami is. As such, Miami, particularly in Midwestern circles (ie, centered in Chicago, Detroit & Cleveland) developed a kind of Midwestern Ivy rep while OSU, fairly or unfairly, was seen as (and still is, by some) as a jock or football school -- happily, though, things are a changin' (cause I'm a huge OSU fan), but, well ... I hope this clarifies rather than muddles this discussion further.141.151.23.197 08:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Picture

I think the picture of the new lab in the middle of the article needs to be reduced to keep the h-scroll intact.

Colleges Schools and Departments

In addition to details about Buckeyes athletics and players, We should extend details about colleges schools and departments at the university. Currently, there are only a few colleges (such as colleges of business and law) listed (under Category:Colleges Schools and Departments of The Ohio State University, the name of this category can also be changed later to cover centers of study and institutes related to academic and research at the OSU.). Also, we should add more details about each campus at OSU. Currently, the link of each OSU campus is defaulted to the main OSU page.

project teams

The external links refer to the OSU ChallengeX Team, and mention that there are several others. However, nothing makes the ChallengeX Team stand out among the other project teams. There's a full list at [5]. If any team stands out, it's the Buckeye Bullet. It seems like this should be dropped and a link to the project team list should eventually be put on an Ohio State University College of Engineering page.

Agreed. ~Kruck 05:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Branch Campuses

I'm removing the sections for each branch campus. I don't think that every branch campus needs its own entry. Here's my reasoning.

1) To give each branch campus a prominent part of the article is not consistent with how other Big Ten university articles are set up

2) It clutters up the article

3) It gives the roles of the branch campuses a focus in the article that is disproportionate to their role in the university. The branch campuses are a very minor part of the university. Ohio State, in fact Ohio State never wanted them in the first place, and only built them in response to OU trying to encircle Columbus with branch campuses. Ohio State also lobbied strongly in the sixties to have everybody's branch campuses folded into the community college system but was unsuccesful. Today, the branch campuses function more as independent community colleges than as integral parts of the Columbus campus--with different missions, different admissions standards and so on.--Sam Harmon 14:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there shouldn't be an inline section describing each, but it might be a good idea to put links to the wikipedia pages about all the branches and not just links to the cities themselves. Perhaps it could be in an infobox or a related articles section. The pages are currently only found in Category:Ohio State University. Bcirker 16:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
For now, I changed the links in the second paragraph from the cities to the branch campuses. That'll do until we come up with a more elegant solution. -- SwissCelt 19:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Rankings

The academic rankings section of the article is a little hard to follow. I think the information would be easier to read and compare in a table. What do you think? I haven't finished the table, but I could do so if people think it would be useful.

Tables

Ohio State College Rankings
Category US News and World Report: National US News and World Report: Ohio Other rankings
Fisher School of Business: Undergrad 17 1 N/A
Fisher School of Business: Graduate 21 1 The Economist: 28th Internationally[1]
Moritz College of Law 39 1 N/A
College of Medicine and Public Health: Primary care 33 1 N/A
College of Medicine and Public Health: Research 32 1 N/A

Table shortened to save space ~Kruck 14:10, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


It seems to me that we as a society put way too much stock in rankings of colleges and universities, but that is a matter of personal opinion I suppose. That being said, if we are going to include these sorts of things in the article, a table does read easier than inline text. My suggestion would be to have subheadings under each college or department so it would read as follows:
(College or Department)-------------Rank
   (Specific Subject)---------------Rank

Bcirker 16:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Good idea Bcirker. That is more organized, and that's all I'm looking at here. You're right, though, that we focus on rankings too much, but rankings are facts people look for. To make it obvious that these are the opinions of groups like USN&WR, we need to label the rankings clearly. ~Kruck 17:47, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Is something like this good?

Ohio State College Rankings
Category US News and World Report: National US News and World Report: Ohio Other ranking
Fisher School of Business
  • Undergraduate level
 17 1 N/A
  • Graduate level
 21 1 The Economist: 28th Internationally[2]
Moritz College of Law 39 1 N/A
College of Medicine and Public Health
  • Primary care
 33 1 N/A
  • Research
 32 1 N/A
College of Engineering
  • Undergraduate level
 28 1 N/A
  • Graduate level
 26 1 N/A
Political Science Department 13 1 London School of Economics: 4th internationally
  • American Politics
 5 1 N/A
  • International Politics
 12 1 N/A
  • Political Methodology
 10 1 N/A
  • Political Methodology
 10 1 N/A

~Kruck 18:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

The column headings can be abbreviated too: like USN&WR, with wikilinks. Something to shorten cells to one line each would be good. ~Kruck 18:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to admit that I'm biased towards the text version (I wrote it so take that into consideration) It just seems as though text is more "encycopedia-like" and tables or list tend to break the flow of the article. Also, it's easier to incorporate various non-USN&WR rankings, which I think are just as important--if not more so. All that being said, we should come to some form of concensus on the talk page and then follow through on that decision.--Sam Harmon 19:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

It looks to me like the wiki tables will be way too big and obstructive, which I hadn't realized. However, if someone was looking for a ranking for a certain college at OSU, I think it is currently hard to find. Maybe a text preformatted table would be better. ~Kruck 20:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Text table:

 
Category                   USN&WR: USA       USN&WR: Ohio       Other rankings

Fisher School of Business
  Undergraduate level           17              1               N/A 
  Graduate level                        21              1               The Economist: 28th  Internationally
Moritz College of Law           39              1               N/A 
College of Medicine
and Public Health 
  Primary care                  33              1               N/A 
  Research                      32              1               N/A 
College of Engineering 
  Undergraduate level           28              1               N/A 
  Graduate level                26              1               N/A 
Political Science Department    13              1               London School of Economics: 4th internationally 
  American Politics             5               1               N/A 
  International Politics        12              1               N/A 
  Political Methodology         10              1               N/A 
  Political Methodology         10              1               N/A

Any other ideas? ~Kruck 20:17, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Other options

Another option would be to have the article link to a separate page with a table of rankings. ~Kruck 22:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Geographic coordinate system for OSU campuses

Anyone who know the Geographic coordinate system of each OSU campus please help filling it out.

Hey User:140.254.115.130, please sign discussions with four ~'s, like this: ~~~~. I'm not sure how you think the geographic coordinates could be used, but they're almost certainly not published by the university branches. To get an idea, though, you can just search Google Maps for "Ohio State campus" or something and get the coordinates from the URL. I could get them if you'd like. ~Kruck 17:46, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Branch Campus                        Geographic Coordinates
Lewis Center (the Delaware Center)   40.227121 N, 83.026428 W
Lima                                 40.749338 N, 84.027557 W
Mansfield                            40.802635 N, 82.580795 W
Marion                               40.585278 N, 83.089256 W
Newark                               40.128491 N, 82.444153 W

If someone has more exact coordinates, that would be good too. The main campus coordanates may need to be updated in that case. ~Kruck 18:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

According to Google Earth, the coordinates of the clock tower of University Hall are: 40°00'01.03" N 83°00'52.25" W with an elevation of 748 feet above mean sea level. That sounds right to me because there is a marker soutwest of that building indicating the 40th parallel as surveyed a while back. Bcirker 19:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good - Google Earth should be a good source too, probably the best available. ~Kruck 02:51, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


A question about Ohio State University's system

I am just curious. Based upon the sentence in the following: "Although Ohio operates a decentralized system of higher education, Ohio State is widely considered both within Ohio and outside of its borders to be the flagship institution of the state's public system of higher education."

My question is if the Ohio State University has only one president. Deans/directors are in charge of its other small campuses. How can you call that this system is "a decentralized system"? From my view, this is a centralized system. For example, if we look at University of California or University of Illinois, their campuses have their own presidents and seem to operate independently. Each campus has its own policies and societies. I would consider University of California and University of Illinois have a decentralized system. Am I missing something here? Thanks--140.254.115.50 10:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Because the comment states Ohio not Ohio State. Ohio has no "system". Actually UI and UC are both centralized systems, with state systems where there are individual campuses, but the state has created a system with a "single" university with multiple campuses. Even if each university has its own president. The key is not the President, which honestly is as much of a ceremonious role as it is anything else. The key is the Board of Trustees. In Cal and Illinois, there is only a single board of trustees. Ohio State's individual campuses have their own Boards and more importantly, the state has no central system. See if the link helps. Check for public universities. [6] -Thebdj 00:32, 29 October 2006 (UTC)