User talk:Ohconfucius

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[edit] Taking action on PCPP's disruptive editing

I think the first thing necessary will be to do a Request for Comment on PCPP's editing. Here is some info on that; it requires at least two editors to ask him to desist disruptive editing before an RFC can be lodged. I understand that he needs to have disobeyed the exhortations. I am going to post a comment on his page now explaining this and asking him to stop deleting sourced content from the pages and leaving spurious explanations. I thought you should be made aware of this, since you are indirectly involved in what I perceive as his disruptive editing. It isn't clear to me whether I am allowed to canvass for this--do you know? I assume I am not breaking any rules here. If so I would strike this through and apologise. I can't find that on the page though. Thanks.--Asdfg12345 10:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I tend to agree. He's getting a bit brazen, and needs to be kept at bay. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:32, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edinburgh Place Ferry Pier

Hi, I put all of the refs in this article at the end of the punctuation, per your request. Hopefully this helps pass the article... Let me know if there's anything else (altho, I know nothing about the topic...hehe)

Lazulilasher (talk) 02:20, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I've left further notes on the talkpage. D.M.N. (talk) 16:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Done. You may place this on your userpage:
This user helped promote the article Edinburgh Place Ferry Pier to good article status.

D.M.N. (talk) 15:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Anson Chan

Even though it's already been a while on the edit on Anson Chan about knighthoods (The GCMC), the word 'damehood' is used for a female who receive a 'knighthood'.

--Cahk (talk) 21:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your Header

I like you header and was wondering if it was ok to borrow/copy it for my userpage/talkpage, but thought I would ask first in case there was a way to remake it so it knows what user it is on?

Yours

Barry Carlyon (talk) 13:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I myself copied the basic structure, but no longer recall from where, but have made some customisations (for example, I found some similar looking logos more appropriate for the subjects I wanted, and renamed the pages). Doing this is easy enough, and I will be pleased to help if you just give me a shout. I have taken the liberty of creating the header in your userspace. It should now be correctly pointing to your own links. All you have to do to put it on your articles is put the tag '{{User:Barrycarlyon/Header}}' on the page. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Many thanks, I shall be sure to give you a shout if I need any help :-)

Barry Carlyon (talk) 15:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Falun Gong articles

I've just began to take a look at these articles and I'm simply shocked at the attitudes of the so-called "pro-FG" contributors, notably Asdfg and HappyInGeneral. Their hastiness to make blatant accusations and personal attacks and yet cite Wikipedia policies, such as randomly calling users "[probably] a CCP agent" without even knowing who they are referring to, defies even the most basic of Wikipedia principles. What is even more shocking was that an Arbcom case was filed and yet none of them received any warnings over it; instead, who I believe was a reasonable editor was banned from the article for being a so-called "activist" - while these users openly admit practising Falun Dafa and voices their intention to promote it? Frankly, as a contributor who edited thousands of different articles in all categories, I have never been more concerned than at the situation in these articles. I'm willing to attempt to reason with these users now and hope to make it clear for them that they must leave their personal opinions and attacks out of the discussion, but it's hard to be optimistic given the history of the articles. I believe a serious admin or ArbCom intervention is needed, soon, but since I'm relatively new in this dispute, I would like your advice on this matter. Thanks. Herunar (talk) 13:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Tough problem, I know - the 'Falun Gong' article is pretty pro-FG - what criticisms there are are buried in Third party views on Falun Gong, a pretty dry, academic and boring thesis. It would pay you to search through the archives of the FG talk page if you want to know what you are getting into - it elevates my wikistress levels when I go "Falun-gonging". I distain at their tactics. This bunch of devotees insist that there must be detailed mentions of how FG are persecuted in China in almost any article where they get the opportunity, not happy with it being led to by the main article. I think the only way was to play the game their way, and try to introduce more sourced information and not to delete without reason; Increasing the transparency of the edits made; {{fact}} tagging unsourced assertions and later deleting them if not addressed. While FGers will happily put "sourced" material into articles, some is virulent propaganda from WOIPFG; much is dubious allegation dressed up as fact by the Epoch Times. The ET is not considered a reliable source, and should always be challenged within the confines as to what may be quoted from primary sources. In addition, always challenge the fidelity of assertions from sources. There can be no letup in scrutinising the edits because FG devotees or apologists will misrepresent what sources say if neutral editors are not watchful. Tiananmen Square self-immolation incident article was littered with examples of this when I started to attack it. Now it's a "good article". I believe that I may give the FG editors a lot of leeway, but this collaboration has resulted in the above 'good article'. As there is a shortage of neutral editors around in these murky waters, I hope you will stick around, but make sure that the changes you make are capable of being backed up. There is no quick fixing the violations of WP:NPOV, in particular there are plenty of violations of WP:UNDUE, so trying to making the series into "good articles" may be one way of enlisting neutral editors. I will end my rant here. There are more of my thoughts and frustrations here Ohconfucius (talk) 02:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm just into this dispute but with my humble opinions, I completely disagree. Playing it their way is not a solution. Any such collaboration formed is pointless and any "good article" is moot, given the incredible amounts of biases present in the articles behind the seemingly-honest citations. Already, plenty of users, including you, have spoken out against the behavior and decided to leave the article. This I discourage. This is a problem in Wikipedia we have to face together. Instead of giving up and playing it their way, the problem must be solved right in its roots; otherwise, where would Wikipedia find its integrity when such corruption lies deep in its community, when certain activists dominate the articles? How ever could Wikipedia claim to be a free, neutral encyclopedia? The situation must be tackled right now. Too long have users been suppressed under this regime of pro-FG editors. Users like Asdfg12345 have good intentions, but their serious misunderstanding with the core of Wikipedia policies and their immense self-interest far exceeds any good they may have done.
Remember in Wikipedia that we are a community. We not only have the ability to appeal to the community in cases like this, but as experienced users, we have the duty to do so. I will not let such unforgivable behaviors past under my eyes in a Wikipedia community. Herunar (talk) 09:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
这些人叫“下焦虚冷”。 说别人说得头头是道， 不照照镜子看看自个儿。Herunar (talk) 10:06, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Comment by Dilip

Friend,

You are making the same mistake you are accussing me of - "unilateral reverts" as you put it. I believe that there were a lot of content in the recent version that is very relevant to the topic.

I understand that the gif of slow motion deconstruct analysis would, perhaps, better fit into the reports and analysis section rather than the intro and their might have been other factors that needed improvement too - but overall the article, I believe, was far more factual than the previous version which presented many things in a very misleading manner.

These are things that can easily be fixed through edits - please do not bluntly revert like this. It becomes very difficult to contribute when you keep doing that.

Dilip

Dilip please, it's been nominated a good article and confucius put that thing on the talk page notifying anyone of that concept. Also, your edits weren't really improvements to the article as far as I could tell. At least those sentences tacked onto intro and the huge gif just didn't help. Anyway, simply discuss edits on talk page.

Confucius the other thing I meant to tell you was that I recently found out that when Rahn wrote those two Falun Gong articles in the pseudo journals she was just a college student at UCLA. Those weren't even a Phd thesis. She was a failed soap actress who went back to school. That's the sad truth. Thought you should know.--Asdfg12345 21:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Noted. I think I must have said in the context of Porter that, in time, he may be a credible scholar, but I don't think he's there yet. Rahn is now "credible" in some camps, and that credibility can be applied to retrospective works. Ohconfucius (talk) 05:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

hah, where please? The fact is we have a failed soap actress publishing two articles in a couple of pseudo-journals--that's it. ?--Asdfg12345 15:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Hmm, maybe her credentials deserve closer scrutiny! Ohconfucius (talk) 23:57, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FDH in Hong Kong

I left a comment on the talk page of the article, let me know if you need a further explanation or anything else. Thanks for alerting me to it. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 07:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edison Chen photo scandal

I have restored my edits. Please discuss on article's talk page. JSIN (talk) 09:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

  • People can Google up the links if they want, but they are clearly unencyclopaedic and do not belong here on wikipedia. Ohconfucius (talk) 09:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I just wanna use this space here to also point out that the page (photo scandal) needs semi-protection from IP Edits. What do you think? TheAsianGURU (talk) 19:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

  • It's not manifestly a problem yet, as disruptive or vandal edits there have not been sufficiently frequently. and no administrator will protect it. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Penn Singers

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Penn Singers, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Penn Singers. Deb (talk) 17:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] long sentences

Which one? If you're referring to "in Hong Kong", in my defence an adjectival phrase has more effect when placed as near as possible to its antecedent. I wrote that it is an unambiguous location for the following reason. Let's say you have a sentence: "Bob thinks that important foods are bread and peanuts in England." This would imply that he shows preference for "peanuts in England" but not "peanuts" in general. Of course, that's a bit absurd because peanuts are peanuts. If you slid "in England" in a position that preceded "important foods", it would indicate clearly that both foods are important in this place called England. "Bob thinks that, in England, important foods include bread and peanuts." Pandacomics (talk) 18:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bush, China, democracy

In response to your post on my talk page (from Dec 11 2007) First point: Since Wikipedia is not judgmental and has an explicit policy to strive to be objective, we ought to leave a country as it claims to be first, then introduce the opposing view later and NOT the other way round. The US claims itself to be a federal republic and should be called that; should one re-label it the Liberal Democracy of the USA? There are official versions of facts and what you view as the 'real' facts. You are entitled to opinions of your own (incl political opinions) and you are fully entitled to file that under 'criticisms' or a similar section to that. It is not acceptable, for example, to declare the PRC a fascist state, the DAB as a 'Tiananmen Square apologist trademark' party, as much as it is unacceptable to declare the USA a 'dictatorship', the Democratic Party (HK) as a 'treacherous sell-out, oppose-everything trademark' party. You are entitled to be a strong left-liberal person if you want to and I fully respect that. However, when you start placing politically-colored opinions as facts then you have crossed the line.

Second point: Hu Jintao I think was talking about democracy in the original meaning, as in people power, not liberal democracy. 'Min Zhu' only means democracy in its most general term, right? And have you forgotten that communism/socialism is called a 'people's democracy'? Remember, much like the US labelling itself a 'liberal democracy', I'm not saying whether I agree with this label or not - I'm just saying that's what it calls itself. Unlike you, it seems (from Asdfg's Yahoo article link with you being on the news strongly supporting Anson Chan, etc.) I have no personal political agenda on here (I am qualified to vote in HK Island FYI but I didn't vote for either Anson Chan or Regina Ip as I found them both too biased), nor am I a spokesperson for any nation, country or organization. Instead of always thinking you are fighting for some just cause, all about 'free speech', if you really value such a 'freedom', you have to first practice it yourself. How do you do that? Apply it to everyone. Listen to their opinions with an open mind, not a parochial attitude where you have decided before you listen or read.

Now consider Wiki. It promotes itself to be informative and objective, so you have to give proportional treatment to everything. However, it seems that you have re-interpreted remarks by people you don't like (e.g. Hu Jintao, CCP) and twisted it to suit your anti-Chinese government agenda. How about stepping back for a second and consider the value that you are trying to promote, instead of getting lost in the craze of excess adherence to one ideology? You appear to demand more freedoms only for those who share your political opinions. Such inflexibility leads to great intolerance in society, polarizing the pro- and anti-government camps. This should not happen. Now, while I know Falun Gong seems like a lost cause already, you should reconsider your political position in Hong Kong on Wikipedia. I'm not saying you should change your political position when campaigning in HK - I would never dream of inhibiting your right to exercise freedom of speech providing it is within the law. I'm just saying that in an objective environment such as Wikipedia, you need to be writing (in the main entries) the objective facts as presented by the 'official' side, write the criticisms in the next section, let the reader decide, but feel completely free to express your real opinions in the discussion pages.

Don't confuse the function of the main entries and their discussion pages. Ever wonder why I talk so much more on talk / discussion pages rather than blindly edit main entries? Jsw663 (talk) 05:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

A P.S. to my post above: if you don't think a (in this case, third-party FG) link is sufficiently relevant and delete it because YOU don't think it's appropriate, does that make you the authority figure on Wikipedia? I hope this isn't the 'democracy' you are talking about in your strong anti-government, anti-police politics that are reflected in every article you appear to be involved in, such as the Edison photo scandal. Jsw663 (talk) 05:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
You may be confusing me with someone else: I am not a public figure, and never did come out in support of Anson Chan. I think Anson is too cold blunt and not at all diplomatic, and Regina is now too slimy and insincere (although she was pretty much "let them eat cake" when she was a minister). It is already on record that I am not a FG supporter, but I believe that the Chinese leadership and FG deserve one another. Politically, I am probably closest to the Liberal Party in terms of their overall platform, except I believe they are too vested against electoral reform to increase government accountability and transparency. Of course, I have my views and defend my right to have those views, but I do try to be neutral when it comes to wikipedia. Editing the FG articles has worn me out, so I have been keeping a distance of late. While I may occasionally be guilty of WP:UNDUE, you are now accusing me of being overtly partisan and parochial in everything I have done, which I take as a pretty nasty swipe. You may not think it is a big deal that famous landmarks are knocked down to fill the pockets or property developers, or that somebody (in the Edison case) arrested be denied bail simply because the court reckons his heavy indebtedness makes him a flight risk, but a significant number of people seem to share my view that these are important issues, and much of the publicity generated is because of those collective views and actions. I don't think I have pretended any of my views are mainstream when they are not. In addition, I have so far found a dearth of cited text in defense of the police, but look forward to citing it as and when it surfaces. Ohconfucius (talk) 06:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Preview button

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Regarding your edit(s) to Edison Chen photo scandal, it is recommended that you use the preview button before you save; this helps you find any errors you have made, and prevents clogging up recent changes and the page history. Thank you. Stifle (talk) 11:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Edison photo scandal

Opps, that was an edit conflict mistake. Please add that section back, thanks. OhanaUnitedTalk page 17:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I added them back. Thanks again for pointing it out. OhanaUnitedTalk page 04:52, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BTW

Oh I replied on my talk page. Benjwong (talk) 03:04, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] You tell me

[1][2] Once again FLG propagandists has edited large chunks of text without discussion, masquerading their unsourced opinons as fact, yet when I try to reverse their damage I have to gain their approval. What a joke.--PCPP (talk) 13:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

If you want me to find sources that won't be a problem. I wouldn't have thought that was necessary though, because they are abundant across the persecution page. I can dig them up for you though and paste them there. I don't think that's the problem though. You just don't like any of this stuff, sourced or not. You've repeatedly deleted sourced content in the past. I have to apologise very frankly and sincerely to you though, for just reverting your edits even when some parts or all of them are appropriate, like when you change CCP to PRC, etc.. I won't do that again. From now on, we should do like this: where the sources dictate CCP or PRC, go with that, otherwise default to something like "Chinese authorities". Also, while I right here acknowledge that you make some legitimate edits, I must also urge you to stop the destructive ones, like redirecting the CIPFG page continually, and blanking negative stuff on the CCP. I'm definitely open to discuss any changes, I would welcome that. If there is undue weight on certain points or you want to talk about how we can work better together, rephrase things, restructure things, add in different sources to balance opinions, I'm really all for that. Those would all be good things. But I wish you would stop elevating differences, making recriminations, accusations, and not building a constructive atmosphere. As I say, I have definitely not been good enough in this regard, and often blanket reverted you. Where your edits clearly have no merit (such as simply blanking sourced stuff with no discussion, or doing that redirect) I will revert, but in all other cases seek discussion. If we both do like this there will be no problem. I think it should not be difficult to just keep a fairly civil and neutral tone in our discussion, defer to wikipedia policies and reliable sources, and just do things methodically and by the books. If you want to do that I will welcome it! (sorry to put all this on your page confucius!) --Asdfg12345 14:56, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I have gone and looked at the two articles concerned, and note there are huge problems. I have removed some of the more blatant misrepresentations of sources, bearing in mind I do not have access to some of the source materials (Sutherland). I have also tagged them where there are appearance of weasel words, and put html notes to indicate specifically what my concerns are (instead of using the talk pages). Ohconfucius (talk) 02:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Hope you're not burnt out or something, I do not enjoy giving you a hard time, but if you would like, please see the "revamped" organ harvesting page and leave your comments for improvement, or get your hands dirty.--Asdfg12345 05:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, editing these pages was elevating my stress levels, so I have been enjoying life, and the peace and quiet going to the gym a lot, and doing some yoga. I have been watching from the sidelines: Seems like a new bunch of editors has waded in to the Falun Gong article, and I am just enjoying watching the heated discussions and occasionally throwing in a few firecrackers. ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 06:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

hah! Great to hear. Okay, I do not want to interrupt your respite, another day then. I'll go in for round two on the organ page another time.--Asdfg12345 06:10, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What should I do with Asdfg's edit war/DE/blanking/moving

I understand the reason for AGF, but AGF also said good faith no longer apply if there are evidence otherwise.

Well, I'm asking what I should do about Asdfg. The past 2 month have given me ample evidence to not AGF.

All I'm doing is trying to add notable facts to articles that are so blatantly POV'd that they may as well be FLG promotional material. And I'm not the only one if you take a look what's happening in the Falun Gong page with other editors. His MO is pretty clear - anything he doesn't like he blank/move down the article(and hope people don't read it), dream up sucky reason to drag it out in Talk, hide for a week and comeback and DE all over again.

You decide.

BTW, Asdfg has recently been sent to timeout.

Bobby fletcher (talk) 00:03, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POV problems at Persecution of Falun Gong

See [3], so do you think these paragraphs really falls within WP:NPOV? --PCPP (talk) 12:03, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] People Paddle

Hi. I removed the speedy tag you placed and trimmed the article somewhat. It may well still be deletable, but I think we should let the AfD run its course (ie generate a bit more input). I've commented there too. Best wishes, --John (talk) 04:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2008 Summer Olympics torch relay

You might be interested in editing this article and participating in the discussion. Currently, there is an troubling deficiency of common sense in the article. Herunar (talk) 15:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Userfy

Done. :-) It's at User:Ohconfucius/Mak Man Kee Noodle Shop. - Philippe 04:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Falun Gong Canadian supreme court ruling

Hi, you said "You asserted that it is ground-breaking". Where did I assert this?

Now regarding whether we do or don't include this reference, your argument seems to be that it is only a relatively minor case, and leaving it in will only promote edit warring, as other minor cases are added to the article. If I've misunderstood you, then please correct me.

My response to this would be that while the case itself is relatively minor, it prompted the judge to make a broadly-stated comment about Falun Gong in general. The text quoted in the article refers not to the specific civil action, but to the Judge's summary of the Falun Gong movement in general. This quote is interesting, because it is an appraisal from an independent westerner who is (or should be) dispassionate and informed, and it is valuable, because it is one of the few distinctly negative appraisals from someone who (frankly) doesn't work for the Chinese government. I think it provides a valuable point of balance. Any sane person is going to waqnt to find better information than the rantings of the Chinese government, but once you take those out of the picture you're left with a very idealistic depiction of a movement without flaws. Statements like this judge's one, from independent sources, help balance that picture out and give the reader some sense of context. They understand that FG may be flawed (depending on the one's perspective), and if so those flaws largely come down to the fact that it promotes mysticism, and that it has a tendency not to accept criticism.

A little bit of bland criticism like that shows up China's extreme criticism for what it really is. It provides an independent perspective. Fuzzypeg★ 06:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

  • You said "setting a legal precedent for Canada" which is pretty ground-breaking. But again, I have found no sources to back it up. By your own apparent admission, it is indeed a pretty minor case. As to summarising my reasoning, you missed the bit about it coming only from a primary source, as far as the comment is specifically concerned ;-). Your interpretation about the judge's comment about it being a "useful and interesting" general statement provided to give balance (third paragraph), relying only on a primary source and in the absence of a reliably published commentary to that effect, appears to me to be original research. I am arguing that, without context of the legal case and the deliberations of the judge, the stand-alone comment lacks pertinence. Ohconfucius (talk) 08:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm replying to this at Talk:Falun Gong, and copying our discussion there, in case other editors have an opinion. Fuzzypeg★ 02:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Good idea Ohconfucius (talk) 03:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recent tagging

The matter of size is a real one, and a real concern. For what it's worth, however, the articles in question were primarily tagged for the Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Christianity in China work group, which has substantially smaller numbers of articles. In part they were tagged for that group because the portal related to that project has not a lot of content to date. They, like all the other articles I've recently tagged, have been tagged on the basis of the articles' categorization. I can and do understand that you might have reservations about the categories remaining, and I don't think anyone would necessarily revert the categorization, although I can't swear to that. I know I wouldn't do so consciously, although I can't swear that if they appear in other Christianity categories than I;ve already gone through that I might not tag for the other categories. Basically, your call as to whether the banner stays or not. John Carter (talk) 01:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Thanks for your reply. I won't remove the banner. Let's see how it goes for the project. Ohconfucius (talk) 01:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Legal eagle?

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080423_cir_china_bush_investigation/

I forget if you studied law. Either way, take a squiz. Coming to a wikipedia article near you!--Asdfg12345 15:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not commenting on the substance of the allegations in question. The case is based upon what I consider complete legal nonsense which only the Americans are stupid enough to think up, believing they can solve all the world's problems. "Extra-territorialism", meaning giving your own courts jurisdiction over foreign nationals on foreign soil can never be used for anything good. The logic is about the same as provoking a regime change in Iraq based on flimsy evidence - even if there's firm evidence, action would not be justified IMHO. Ohconfucius (talk) 15:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

What about Pinochet? When did you become so cynical?--Asdfg12345 12:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I have a huge problem with the legal principle. I don't think any end justifies the means, however abhorrent the crime or criminal Saddam Hussein or Augusto Pinochet included. If you want to talk about universal and reciprocal extradition, I would be in favour in principle, although some jurisdictions would have problems extraditing to certain other jurisdictions they believed to have "less fair" legal systems. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Malin to Mizen

You voted for a delete here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Malin to Mizen. However, evidence establishing the noteworthiness of the topic has since been given and you have not been heard from since. I'm requesting that you and the other early voters return to the discussion and reaffirm or refute your previous position. --MQDuck 00:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dilip

I've warned him about reverting against consensus. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:57, 13 May 2008 (UTC) Thank you. Ohconfucius (talk) 07:08, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request to move article Reports of organ harvesting from live Falun Gong practitioners in China incomplete

You recently filed a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves to move the page Reports of organ harvesting from live Falun Gong practitioners in China to a different title - however your proposal is either incomplete or has been contested as being controversial. As a result, it has been moved to the incomplete and contested proposals section. Requests that remain incomplete after five days will be removed.

Please make sure you have completed all three of the following:

  1. Added {{move|NewName}} at the top of the talk page of the page you want moved, replacing "NewName" with the new name for the article. This creates the required template for you there.
  2. Added {{subst:RMtalk|NewName|reason for move}} to the bottom of the talk page of the page you want to be moved, to automatically create a discussion section there.
  3. Added {{subst:RMlink|PageName|NewName|reason for move}} to the top of today's section here.

If you need any further guidance, please leave a message at Wikipedia talk:Requested moves or contact me on my talk page. - JPG-GR (talk) 03:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dilip and asdfg

I believe it is obvious by now that their political motivations are very strong, perhaps the most significant motivation for their edits, making it completely impossible for NPOV, so it is certainly time to change their NPOV edits with much greater vigorousness than before. We have been far nicer and civil and gave these firebrands the chance. Their pandering may actually harm the goals of FLG, despite their intent. It is my opinion that we much change what is NPOV immediately before giving them the benefit of the doubt as we have for so long.EgraS (talk) 20:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I have been quite civil in discussing all this, and I have kept well within the bounds of wikipedia policies in making edits. I have not made any recriminations against other editors, nor questioned their motives. Please refer to specific edits that are problematic on the Tiananmen Self-immolation Incident page, and explain why. Since you got back you deleted a few things on grounds that they were biased/unsourced--like deleting the Washington Post paragraph. But it was sourced, and it's very relevant. There has been discussion about the different points that were seen as problematic and how to get around them, but you have not participated in it. In fact, there is still an opportunity to simply write on the talk page the specific parts of the page that you find problematic, to explain why, and propose a remedy. It's quite simple, and no one is going to say mean things to you. It's just that general comments about how the page is biased without specifying how, and accusing other editors of ill intentions, that's not going to help us move forward and improve the pages.--Asdfg12345 00:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
You have stood hand-in-hand with Dilip who has made it crystal clear that he has strong political motivations for the editing of the article. Dilip has
  • Said that he is editing the article for "the truth" to be revealed and stop the "persecution" of FLG.
  • Wanted to change the name of the article even though no matter how it is examined, it would make no sense. The immolation occurred from people who were either FLG or CCP followers. They burned themselves intentionally regardless of it was for the sake of CCP OR FLG. It was certainly willful, and they were not forced. For example, they may have burned themselves for the CCP, to wage a war against FLG, but even in that case it is still "self-immolation".
  • Used only sources which are pro-FLG. Questioned if Amnesty Intl is an advocacy despite their own website.
  • Added quotation marks to everything he disagrees with to make it seems as if they are fake.
  • Started a fake checkuser to try to stifle any opinions that are against his own. He has not "apologized" despite what he promised on that checkuser.
  • Made the article his soapbox.

I will follow the rules of WP regardless of what outrageous attacks are used against WP and me. EgraS (talk) 01:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand that you have problems with Dilip, but that is not the issue here. You haven't referred to anything specifically that you would like to see changed on the page, or pointed out in what way it's currently problematic. The quotation marks you refer to had already been removed. Please specify what, on the current page, is violating wikipedia content policies. Don't delete the WPost paragraph again. If you haven't read the core content policies yet, I WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:OR, I would say it's a good time to do so. I am not aware of any outrageous attacks against you or wikipedia... --Asdfg12345 02:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Any false accusation is in and of itself an unfair attack, and an RfCU is in and of itself an attack on my credibility and motives and probably an intentional way to divert attention from the debate since the evidence is flimsy as to be similar to the claim that Barack Obama is a radical Muslim. Both have used only false circumstantial evidence. EgraS (talk) 02:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PCPP at WP:ANI

Hello Ohconfucius. The editing of User:PCPP is being questioned at WP:ANI. I was trying to decide if any admin action was needed, so I looked on his User talk. I noticed that you had left messages for him a couple of times, which suggests you may be somewhat familiar with his editing. Maybe you would like to add a comment to the ANI item. What is being complained about specifically is that he persists in changing Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong into a redirect, over and over without consensus. EdJohnston (talk) 15:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your notice

Yeah I really think I should lay off editing FLG articles a bit, it's really not a sane environment to be editing in. It seems I've lost any desire to cooperate with FLG SPAs after the AFD of CIPFG was canvassed by Ave Caesar's buddies and I was accused of being a CCP spy. I'm still disturbed at what nobody take into consideration of the article probation of the FLG articles though.--PCPP (talk) 05:12, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

  • I agree that all this talk and no action makes a mockery of article probation. Truth is, nobody but FG practitioners and lobbyists care about the family of articles. On several occasions, I have been talked into staying after declaring my intention to duck out. I believe they understand that they need a counterweight to sanely appraise the articles to remove the more blatant FG propaganda to lend the articles legitimacy. Don't know how much longer I can stick this out: each day I stay, the more stressed out I become; my nerves are nearly in tatters. Ohconfucius (talk) 13:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

funny, I feel the same way. --Asdfg12345 03:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AFD

Want to express your opinion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong (2nd nomination)?--PCPP (talk) 10:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pariah Burke

I know. It's always particularly awkward when one is addressing WP:N and WP:AUTO with the subject himself. That is one reason why WP:AUTO cautions against writing articles about oneself/defending oneself in deletion discussions. Do feel free to chime in on the AfD yourself, and thanks for your message. Qworty (talk) 05:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of The Lumberjack (Northern Arizona University)

An article that you have been involved in editing, The Lumberjack (Northern Arizona University), has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Lumberjack (Northern Arizona University). Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? --Icarus (Hi!) 09:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Lumberjack AfD

Thread replied to on my talk page, as well as being cross-posted here.

Did I really come across as being uncivil? I thought I was addressing things in a rather factual manner ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 01:37, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

If you were, just barely. I was more concerned that things looked to be heading in that direction. Maybe they wouldn't have, but I figured it would be better to play it safe and comment on it now rather than waiting to see if it did get to that point. --Icarus (Hi!) 05:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Wise move. Having said that, I had had a chance to sleep on it. ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 05:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Charts

Since you voted in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hot100Brasil, can you give your opinion about Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/United World Chart? Tosqueira (talk) 21:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion review for March 19, 2008 anti-war protest

An editor has asked for a deletion review of March 19, 2008 anti-war protest. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article, speedy-deleted it, or were otherwise interested in the article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Myheartinchile (talk) 18:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I, you said to delete article about ramsetcube.

Are you an expert of BI or just a superficial person ?

I think a person without BI culture must be in silent.

All the best —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sergio Bertele (talk • contribs) 23:50, 10 June 2008 (UTC)