Talk:Of Mice and Men

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Contents

[edit] Edits

2/6/07 In the 'References' section, the mentioning of Of Mice and Men in the current popular ABC drama, LOST should be talked about. James "Sawyer" Ford is reading the novella throughout the episode, "Every Man for Himself".

Possible addition to category fictional characters with mental illness due to Lennie having mental retardation? User:ShadyCharacter

Is there such a category? If so, I don't see why not. Carlo 20:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Why were the ISBN #s deleted? i reverted. Ultrarob 21:48, Jun 4, 2004 (UTC)

Isn't Of Mice and Men considered a novel? I checked the web and it seems like it's considered a novel more than a novella. Therefore, I changed it to novel in the article. Let me know if anyone finds anything contrary.

I think its called a novelette, a small novel :) Ghingo

3/8/06- I found this list of standards in the entry under "novelette:"

  • Epic: A work of 200,000 words or more.
  • Novel: A work of 60,000 words or more (40,000 for the Hugo and Nebula).
  • Novella: A work of at least 17,500 words but under 60,000 words (40,000 for the Hugo and Nebula).
  • Novelette: A work of at least 7,500 words but under 17,500 words.
  • Short story: A work of at least 2,000 words but under 7,500 words. (1,000 words minimum by some definitions)
  • Flash fiction: A work of less than 2,000 words. (1,000 by some definitions)

I'm sure that Of Mice and Men is at least a novella, and I would bet that it's at least 60,000 words.

Lol sure thnx :S

An extended annotated version of the novella can be found at Wikibooks:Of Mice and Men. So is it a novel or novella? Aceofspades 17:11, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[May 24] Of Mice and Men is required reading in many American high schools and I thought that there was an anti-American bias in the article the way it said that Americans banned it while Europeans read it, showing us [Americans] as prude censors. [May 24]

[edit] Interpreting too much

The statement on the page that says George's last name is derived from John Milton, the author of Paradise Lost, is really grasping at straws. People can sometimes interpret where there is no meaning at all in literature. If his name were George Simpson would it be a reference to The Simpsons? Sometimes a name is just a name. This portion of the article should be removed.

No, here it's true about the name - the title of the book - Of Mice and Men - was derived from the play Paradise Lost, which was written by John Milton. 24.17.72.118 02:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the title comes from a line from the Poem To a Mouse. Also, the quote given here is incorect. The quote should be 'The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft agley'

[edit] GCSE English Lit

Of Mice and Men is also required reading for most GCSE English Lit students as it will be required for examination.

I think it is upto the teacher which book the class read as long as it is provided by the examination board. I thought there were a multitude of papers. :?

I removed the material below from the "Overview" section. I don't know where, if anywhere, it would go. Maybe a small section on use in schools, or maybe it doesn't need to be here at all. --Bejnar 20:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

It is one of the novels which English GCSE students must study for paper 1 of the English Literature GCSE course, alongside a play and poetry, in England, Northern Ireland and Wales, Standard Grade in Scotland and the Leaving Certificate in Ireland, and is often read in Norwegian schools also. It is studied in several high schools in Las Vegas, Nevada, and Victoria, Australia as part of the leadup to the completion of the School Certificate in year 10 in NSW and the VCE (Victorian Certificate of Education). It is a prescribed English text for the International Baccalaureate Diploma Programme and is studied by Maltese students taking their English A Level or Intermediate Level exams for their Matriculation Certificate. by Neeera (pk international geek)- not very nice

[edit] Australia

Over here in Australia it is not compulsory reading though it is a popular reading among high school students

I'm removing the extra exclaimation marks after "Token Black man!"

[edit] MLA Format

Why doesnt someone add the MLA citation to this book. Since it is required reading for many students. [[1]] OWL MLA FORMAT; &ndash (Aceofspades 17:10, 28 March 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Banned?

I heard that this got banned in some states in USA for "Profanity" (I spelt it wrong) What on earth is profanity and even though it dosen't concern me, (I live in New Zealand) why did they ban it? i see no reason. You get worse books in USA (there's a bug list of books banned on some site but im not sure what it is.) Being 15, Im currently reading it for NCEA (NZ school thingy) and I really enjoy the book and i find it quite annoying to find it banned in some places.

That is pretty stupid in my oponion to ban a book just because it a few bad words like the n-word and hell.


It wasn't banned because of profanity but because it was "supporting"/"promoting" euthanasia...which, i think is rubbish...--Frills 08:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm reading this book right now in English class. When we were doing a building background information on this book , my teacher said that Lennie was retarded because he slow or something. Rio de oro (talk) 20:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm 15 as well and I am reading it in school in the USA, in Minnesota it isn't actually banned some states just don't have it taught in their schools because they support things that they don't consider moral like euthanasia, or at least that they don't think should be discussed in a place of learning. However it's not like these books are locked away. Everyone has access to them and it's in every library, and denying people access to the book or any other book just because it talks about vulgar subjects is against the constitutional law, but yes there are several classic books some schools don't think suitable to teach such as, The Great Gatsby, and The Catcher in The Rye, books that our school teaches but some do not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.218.12.109 (talk) 22:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

u probably don't know much about american law but it is illegal for anyting to get banned so nothing is baned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.228.190 (talk) 02:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

That's not true at all; books get banned from US schools all the time. A politically incorrect author like Steinbeck would seem especially likely to be banned. It might fail a constitutional challenge, but no one ever bothers making one.Kenhullett (talk) 03:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it's not uncommon for people to try to get books pulled from school curricula or removed from public libraries for "indecency." A lot of that seems to have died down, but the concept rears its ugly head every so often, mostly on a local level. There's been plenty of attempts to keep the Harry Potter books out of public school libraries, and my high school was the source of a controversy over Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath. The government has no authority to say "you can't read, buy, or sell this book," but it is also not required to keep it on "government-owned" shelves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schoop (talk • contribs) 16:39, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 168.10.168.201 Edits

It seems 168.10.168.201 edits took out a lot of important information. VandalProof attempted to hinder the effects of 168.10.168.201, but was unsucessful as it reverted to the previous 168.10.168.201 edit, which was also an act of vandalism. I attempted to revert some changes while including some newer information added since, and leaving some of the old info out as it can be found in the extended annotated version of the novella at Wikibooks:Of Mice and Men. Traslaen 20:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I am reading it too but dont feel so strongly about it as you. You sound like an absolute gayden really. My personal recomendation is you also go to spelling classes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.155.173 (talk) 14:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy of plot summary second paragraph

I'm currently studying this book for my English GCSE, and i'm fairly sure that it is not crooks who is 'yet another hopeful,' but rather Candy, who lost his hand and offers to put the compensation money ($250) into buying the land, plus $50 he has saved and 'another $50 coming at the end of the month.'

I'm not yet changing it incase i'm wrong, i'll check the book first.

[edit] Crooks is Another Hopeful

Crooks has no money to put into the prospective purchase of the land, but he does offer (to Lennie) to come and work at the land in exchange for room and board, thus becoming another character with an investment in George and Lennie's dream.

[edit] of wolf and man by Metallica

It's NOT an allusion to Steinbeck's novel, it's an allusion to an old philosophical maxim "Homo homini lupus est" (A man is a wolf to another man). Will delete the reference.

And, what is this saying supposed to mean? --Luigifan 01:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Title

Shouldn't the article point out that the title comes from the poem "To A Mouse" by Robert Burns? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.216.97.240 (talk • contribs) 23:50, 3 December 2006 (UTC).yes

[edit] Just a little editing...

I did a little editing on the last sentence of the plot summary because I believe that the original sentence was a bit quite confusing. Just to let you know.

[edit] Cover

I've noticed other books by different authors typically have a photo of the 1st edition cover (e.g. Watership Down). Do you suppose it should be used here, or if a scan can be found? -Simtropolitan 3:59 (UTC) 14th, January, 2007

[edit] "Bought the farm"

Is the phrase "bought the farm" based on this book? Like, I know that the farm George and Lenny dreamt of buying is representative of heaven, so the rest seems pretty obvious. So, is it the origin of the phrase? If it is, I'm kind of surprised that a book from the 1930s led to that phrase being so popular. Popular phrases usually come from things of pop culture and important history, especially the Bible and Shakespeare, and TV and movies in today's world, but not from books in the 1930s. It's hard to imagine people being so into reading at that time to make this such a prominent phrase.J.J. Bustamante 04:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

"bought the farm" is one of those phrases with multiple explainations. See [2] or [3]. Yngvarr 11:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Poor Overview!

I find that the overview of the article is poorly written. Curley's wife's death is not adequately explained (the article makes it look as if Lennie wanted to murder her). The overview doesn't spend enough time explaining the other seventy-some pages of the novel. I think that someone should fix this; I'm kind of busy for the time being. Wikiisawesome 15:54, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] copyright problem

I just reverted text that was a substantial copy from http://www.gradesaver.com/classicnotes/titles/miceandmen/shortsumm.html (John User:Jwy talk) 02:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Mice men movieposter.jpg

Image:Mice men movieposter.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 00:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References in Pop Culture

Do y'all think the Warner Bros. character the Abomnable Snowman was patterend after Lennie Small? Esp. considering Buggy Bunny and the name "George". Vampromero (talk) 21:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New section: "Style", renaming older section "Style" to "Development"

I believe that we need to add a new section detailing the themes, motifs, and symbolism in John Stienbeck's Of Mice and men. At the bottom of the section is the proposed addition. ChyranandChloe (talk) 02:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. We would need reliable sources for that content (if it is more than a set of examples). Also, how do you perceive the difference between themes and motifs. A motif is usually a recurring image, so I'm not sure how those three fit that.
Jim Dunning | talk 02:59, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
A theme is the underlying idea or principal of a story, it's sort of the lesson or purpose of it - like the theme Of Mice and Men could easily be to appreciate people who are underprivileged. A motif is something that keeps recurring, it's a device the author uses to help present the theme; for example, you could say the rabbits and dogs are motifs, because every time you hear Lennie mention a rabbit it's followed George explaining their dream, and every time a dog dies it represents a death waiting to occur (Candy awaiting death when he reaches the end of his useful years, and Lennie when he kills the puppy). Symbolism is an object that represents something more than what it is; for example, rabbits can be used again because it represents Lennie and George's desire for a homestead, or how Crook's damaged back could represent his disability of being black. ¶The set example above aren't meant to be put immediately into the article, that's why they're here in the discussion. I'm still looking for more reliable sources, the ones above aren't that great, but it's what we got.ChyranandChloe (talk) 18:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I think we need to rework this, subdividing the general Style or in this case Theme would be too difficult and too judgmental for this novella. John Steinbeck wrote this to be "something that happened" or what he called "non-thelelogical thinking". Therefore I commented out the previous proposals. Nonteleological thinking ChyranandChloe (talk) 01:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plot length

I removed the "expand plot" maintenance tag since it doesn't not need expansion. Novel style guidelines state, "A plot summary should avoid reproducing the work being discussed. Instead, it should summarise the work, touching on plot, important events, character developments etc." This summary does that. It could certainly benefit from addition of real-world context, which would also be accommodated by the addition of a Themes section. Keep in mind this is a novella, a short work with a straight-forward storyline, so not much Plot description is needed.
Jim Dunning | talk 19:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)