Talk:ODESSA

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[edit] H Res. 235

That bill was introduced, but never came to the floor for a vote.


[edit] Himmler and Borman in 1946?

Himmler and Borman were both DEAD in 1946!!!

Janrpeters 03:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Bormann's case is a sticky topic since some people still claim he got out of Berlin after the war. Jak722 11:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Well they are wrong. Adam 11:36, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

They are and the point being, no one was really sure up until recently when they found his bones. Jak722 11:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Was/is"

Can we describe this as such? It's not exactly proven to still exist is it? Megawattbulbman 16:41, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Floating quote

The quote in this article is "floating" - that is, it has no clear defined context, its just "suggestive of something" but never exactly tied down.

Can someone source it and provide a context? FT2 04:11, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Ratline article

There is a stub page called [Ratlines (history)]. I am thinking it would be a good idea to use that page for a more general article on the whole issue of Nazi escape routes, including allegations/rebuttals with evidence for CIA, Vatican involvement etc. Then refer to this page for specific discussion on the ODESSA network. I will start putting some stuff up there as I get time. What do you think?--Bengalski 13:01, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cliff hanger

The Argentine government has finally agreed to open two it's secret Nazi files. Stay tuned next week when our heros find out what is in those files!!! :-) PerlKnitter 12:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, I wonder as to whether the release of those files might in any way at all be connected with the good Mr. Wiesenthal's death? Quite a coincidence, anyway. --Wernher 01:20, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Any news on this? Nach0king 17:47, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Ratlines

Shouldn't it be merged with Ratlines (history)? Informations are splitting between the two articles, and ODESSA is the most famous - if only? - ratlines known... Tazmaniacs 13:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it recent work (eg. Uki Goñi The Real Odessa, Aarons and Loftus Unholy Trinity) suggests that ODESSA played only a minor part in the escape of Nazi and other fascist war-criminals. Recently available documents and research seem to argue that much bigger roles were played by certain catholic priests and organisations (Bishop Hudal, Dragunovic etc.), possibly (though this is highly disputed) with official backing from of the Vatican; and certain states (Argentina in particular, also perhaps intelligence agencies of various western powers.) Therefore my view is 'ratlines' should be the main article, discussing all the alleged escape routes and networks, with the ODESSA article taking a more narrow look just at the alleged SS veterans' association.Bengalski 17:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Given that I've started doing some expansion of the Ratlines article - would be grateful for any help/comments/arguments from people who have worked on this page - I don't want to duplicate what's here, but I do think this needs to be broadened beyond the ODESSA organisation.Bengalski 22:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bormann and Himmler

This article ain't right anymore since a skull dug up in Berlin proofed to be of Martin Bormann, so it's a bit unrealistic for him to lead Odessa. Same for Himmler. Documents recently released proof that he was captured and killed by the Britisch during interogations. So both of them were death before Odessa even started to excist... http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/death/PRO_docs_story.html

  • ODESSA was allegedly created towards the end, not at the end of the war. Meaning it was already being planned, or was, before the war ended. Also, up until they discovered his remains, in 1946 a whole bunch of people still believed he managed to get out of German through similar plans like ODESSA. They didn't really have proof at the time and they probably just connected Bormann to it because of the mystery surrounding him. Jak722 11:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Skorzeny

According to the article on Skorzeny, he died of a heart attack in Madrid. But according tot his article, he died of an accident. Can someone explain? 209.221.73.5 15:29, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

He died of Cancer. He had 2 tumors on his spine which were removed but they were malignant and he died from it. I fixed it. The page keeps automatically reverting back to the incorrect information. He did not die from an accident.

Although Nazi mysticists believe hes hidden in the centre of the Earth ready for a worldwide takeover with the hep of aliens... Racooon

[edit] User:Donnog's changes

User:Donnog wishes to make the following changes, which some of us consider POV (at the very least). Discuss.

  1. Eliminate the reference to the ratlines article, on the grounds that it is describing people as rats[1].
  2. In ..helped Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele, Erich Priebke, Aribert Heim and many other war criminals, change "war criminals" to "national socialists".
  3. Change the reference to the Klarsfelds from "anti-Nazi activities" to "Zionist activities".
  4. Change "war crimes charges" to "political persecution"
  5. Eliminate the question of whether ODESSA was "a criminal conspiracy that protected and smuggled out war criminals"
  6. Change "Many Ex-Nazis war criminals managed to escape using ODESSA" to "Many national socialists accused of alleged war crimes managed to escape using ODESSA."

He claims, here and at Talk:Concentration camp, that these are to enhance NPOV; I claim the opposite -- that they are attempting to whitewash exactly who ODESSA was about. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:46, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Donnog's removal of term ratlines appears to result from his limited fluency in English. A ratline is a ship's ladder made of ropes. Any good dictionary will confirm that this word is derived not from "rat" but from Middle English "rathelinge" and is related to "rattle". It is not offensive by any standard.
The claim that Serge and Beate Klarsfeld were "Zionist activists" is not verifiable.

--Witoldb

Donnog, before you make major edits, may I suggest that you post them here first in order to obtain community feedback? So far, your uncompromising attitude leads in the direction of a Revert_war, which is likely to get administrators involved and I don't think they are likely to rule in your favor.

I hope we can arive at some sort of agreement, if not, we should follow the Arbitration_policy. Witoldb 19:48, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Agree: I'll assume good faith and chalk it up to nuances of the English language (mainly because I haven't read his contribution history), but I agree that the result is POV. DMacks 16:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ODESSA = Organization former SS members?

The ominoese organization "ODESSA" never gave it (probably). It is to be referred into the range of the LEGENDS. Simon Wiesenthal coined/shaped this term and remotelongs these of the German "chief historian" of the second German (Second Channel of German Television), Giudo Knopp, spread. Into the 1960er years - in such a way I believed - "ODSSA" was the name of a feature, in which the "political organization of former SS members" were described. The regular "veteran federations" of the former SS members in Germany and Austria are: the "HIAG" (Germany) and the "Kameradschaft IV" (Austria). Postmann Michael 22:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I have already edited the article to make it clear that the existence of ODESSA is disputed and that some writers, notably Sereny, think it never existed. I don't think it can be asserted that Wiesenthal invented it without a citation. Adam 06:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Adam. Postmann Michael, the article itself cites eight different sources proving its existence; while your opinion might be valuable, it can't be included without proper references. —Coat of Arms (talk) 15:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Just deleted a link referring to "Germany's Fourth Reich". As I suppose Wikipedia should be an encyclopedia, there shouldn't be any links to hair-raising extremist views (to put it mildly). After all, this ODESSA article is dealing with history and not with speculations about the present and future European Union. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.13.72.153 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 11 October 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Otto Adolf Eichmann Karl-Adolf Eichmann Schutzstaffel

Something about this page is confusing me.

Thank You,

[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 03:20, 16 October 2007 (UTC)