Talk:Ocean Grove, New Jersey
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The following user(s) are actively involved with this article and may be able to help with questions about verification and sources: JGHowes (Talk) This in no way implies article ownership; all editors are encouraged to contribute. |
A photo of the Great Auditorium would be nice, as would one of the tent homes.--Srleffler 05:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Someone provided one, but it's been removed, having no license. Rich Farmbrough 21:14 3 July 2006 (GMT).
images added JGHowes talk - 19:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Census data
Someone added updated info from 2002. I'm assuming that it's correct, but changing the wording to reflect that ost of the data is from 2000. Rich Farmbrough 21:14 3 July 2006 (GMT).
- Actually the number of families looks way off (up 500 - pop only up by 50) so I'm treating it as unsourced. Rich Farmbrough 21:18 3 July 2006 (GMT).
[edit] Gay Marriage Controversy
There is an article with considerable detail in the current edition of the tricity news. Unfortunately, I don't have it to hand (I left it on my porch in OG) and their website doesn't contain searchable archives ([1]) doesn't contain a searchable archive.
[edit] "Ralph the Fisherman"
As far as adding this to the article is concerned, the part that really requires solid, reliable sources (that is, mainstream books or major newspapers such as the New York Times or Philadelphia Inquirer) is attributing Ocean Grove's resurgence in real estate values to him.
If the enthusiasm is trimmed to just state factually Ralph has become an unofficial mascot in recent years and was depicted on the beach badge by the OGCMA, or something along those lines, that probably would pass muster with the editors here. Also, is there a better image? The one uploaded is very grainy. JGHowes talk - 19:05, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
- I don't know that Ralph exists, nor that he is of any importance. A reliable source would be required whatever is said about him. Alansohn (talk) 05:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I understand your points. As to whether he exists, the fact that the governing body of the town placed him on their beach badge should answer that question.
I guess I also have some quesions:
In the “Today” section of thecurrent Ocean Grove article, it states:
“Beginning in the 1990s and continuing to the present, Ocean Grove has experienced a dramatic increase in property values.” This has not been the case since early last year. Anyone reading a newspaper is aware of real estate values declining. And they began declining in Ocean Grove around this time, also (as they did throughout much of NJ). Shouldn’t this be updated to reflect this?
In the same section it also states:
“There has been a considerable revival in the fortunes of the town, leading to a much less depressed community and the restoration of older hotel structures, many of which had deteriorated into Single Room Occupancy ("SRO") quarters.” Isn’t the phrase “a much less depressed community” opinion? I can find no article or reliable reference that makes or confirms that statement. It’s not in the article listed as a reference for the paragraph that follows this one on the Ocean Grove page (Michelle Sahn, "New life at old hotel site", Asbury Park Press, March 23, 2006). Therefore shouldn’t that statement be eliminated, as it’s opinion and not verifiable? Bilbobag (talk) 11:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] New Copy for Ocean Grove page
I would like to add the following to the site, but would like your opinion first:Bilbobag (talk) 17:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
To many “Grovers”, the destruction of the Ocean Grove Fishing Pier and boardwalk by the northeast winter storm of 1992, was devastating (Footnote to be added referencing A POINT OF PRIDE SWEPT OFF BY STORM - OCEAN GROVE LOST MORE THAN TIMBER. THE PIER WAS PART OF ITS LIFE. Source: William R. Macklin, Published December 14, 1992, Page S01, Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)) With the town's spirits at an all time low, late one night two friends, Carol and Bob, climbed a 20' high piling and erected a dummy of a fisherman. Named "Ralph", an acronym for Rising Above the Long Pier of Hope, he immediately became a local favorite as he smiled down at beachgoers, and helped buoy the town’s spirits. This was demonstrated later that summer, when his image was used on T-Shirts by The Ocean Grove Fishing Club to help raise funds to rebuild the town’s century old, landmark, fishing pier (photo of t-shirt to be included). When the pier was rebuilt the following year, Ralph was given a permanent perch upon which to sit...and to this day he can be seen sitting there (photo). As an indication of his inspiration and popularity, in 2002, ten years after he was erected, the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association honored Ralph by making him the first fictional character to ever appear on the town’s summer beach badge (photo of beach badge). Bilbobag (talk) 17:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
- Following up on an invitation to comment left on my talk page. I think that it would appear that Ralph the Fisherman is perhaps a significant landmark to locals in Ocean Grove, and there do appear to be reliable source that indicate not only that the monument exists, which would not necessarily be sufficient, but also that such a monument is notable to the point that it is worthy of mention. The monument is even the subject of a book: [2]. However, it should not be given undue weight in this article. I would say that a 3-4 sentance note under a section on notable landmarks would be appropriate. Such a section could also incorporate information on the Auditorium and the Historic District. However, the above copy seems a bit too "unencyclopedic" in its tone, and if added to the article as-is, would probably be giving undue weight to the landmark itself. Let me take a stab at rewriting it... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Ralph the Fisherman
A landmark of local importance, Ralph the Fisherman was erected on the ruined remains of the Ocean Grove Fishing Pier by local residents. The pier had been destoyed by a winter storm in 1992, and two local residents climbed one of the remaining pylons to place a dummy of a fisherman. The dummy became a local attraction, and when the pier was rebuilt in 1993 the dummy became a permanent fixture on it. Today, Ralph—who's name is an acronym for "Rising Above the Long Pier of Hope"— is an important symbol of the community. Ralph has even become the subject of a children's book.
- Now, I think the above version carries a much more encyclopedic tone. I don't have access to the specific articles that Bilbobag does, but it would appear from the title of the Inquirer article that it discusses the destruction of the pier and not the fisherman per se, but I could be wrong about that. Before we add anything, we need reliable sources that:
- a) tell the story about Ralph and
- b) clearly show that he is a symbol of the community
- What think you all? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Ralph The Fisherman sources
Thanks for the help and the re-write. I believe a photo of the 2002 beach badge, the first ever in the 100+ year history of this town to include the image of a fictional character, which was issued by a quasi-Governamental organization (The Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Assoc.) "clearly shows that he is a symbol of the community." The badge shows his image, The words "Ralph", and the words "Ocean Grove". I'm attaching a copy of the photo here
 The 2002 Ocean Grove Beach badge |
I have other photos that show him sitting on the fishing pier, as he has for over 17 years, and others showing him numerous of the town's 4th of July parades. In the parades, he is on the float of The Ocean Grove Fishing Club.
Bilbobag (talk) 23:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
- Cool! The pic will accompany the section well, but it doesn't really count as a source. What we are looking for here is things like newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, that sort of thing. See what you can dig up in that vein, they are vital! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
