User talk:Objective3000

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Welcome!

Hello, Objective3000, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! Lradrama 18:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Hello and welcome

I noticed your contributions to some of the blackjack related articles, and we had a couple of conversations there. I just wanted to pop over and say hello to you here too. Have fun editing at the Wikipedia. I contribute to some of the blackjack articles and other game-related articles here too, so I'm sure we'll see each other around. Keep in touch. :) Rray 22:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I can't read - I can only write a bit:-) Which is to say that I haven't read the Wiki instructions. Just got interested when I saw a comment about something that occurred across the street from me and had to change it.:) Then went to the BJ articles. There is a ton of stuff that could be added. But I don't know that it would help as t would change the balance of the articles. No other changes planned; but I’ll poke in now and again.

[edit] My apologies

I mistakenly took your user name out of the history page of edits to Harrah's Entertainment. There have been a few socks used on that page to re-add a WP:POV based criticism section that has not been verified. My apologies.-- bulletproof 3:16 01:45, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I was looking at the reversion that removed the sockpuppet's edit here and some how your edits got mixed in with the sock's edit. see here. Again. My apologies. -- bulletproof 3:16 01:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scarne

As you were quoting directly from the book, I removed your comment as it was not properly cited (as we've been stating, you need to familiarize yourself with the WP referencing and citation guidelines). For example, you did not include the page numbers. What I did was reference 3rd-party items that did that research for us and add those instead. The message of "scarne claimed to have invented card counting" is still in the article, along with information about the contradiction of him also saying that card counting didn't work. SpikeJones 14:14, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

If, as you say, There is no evidence that his discussion with Benjamin Siegal ever took place and it is self-serving, then why would he put such an item in his autobiography? SpikeJones 16:41, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I just answered that. Once he discovered that card counting was legitimate and he had been noisily wrong and abusive toward the true experts for decades; he needed a cover story. He changed his story to a claim that he had in fact been the inventor of card counting and that he claimed it didn't work publically so he could play it privately. The Siegal story was a part of that nonsense. In reality he never understood BJ. In the last version of Scarne published just after his death, he claimed "As a matter of fact, I often split 10-valued cards when the dealer's upcard is a 10count. Under most conditions this gives me an advantage of 7 7/13% of each split hand." This is just plain nuts. Objective3000 16:52, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button Image:Wikisigbutton.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot 14:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Blackjack Hall of Fame

You have removed the description of Max Rubin and Stanford Wong as "former professional players". This description is supported by various published articles and books. Therefore, your changes have been reverted. In case you have similar sources demonstrating that they were not, please provide them. I remind you that Wikipedia is not a forum for presenting personal opinions or original researsch. -The Gnome (talk) 16:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I took the liberty of copying your message to my Talkpage on the Talkpage of Blackjack Hall of Fame, because I believe it can contribute to the discussion about the contents of that entry. If you want, of course, you can remove it from there. -The Gnome (talk) 19:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Let's continue this discussion in public. I posted a response to your comments in the the relevant Talk Page. -The Gnome (talk) 20:41, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
About "characterisations", Keith Taft, etc : I don't think you understand. Suppose we have an article about "the Hall of Fame" of some sport, e.g. American football. The list of inductees could include people who, besides being Hall-of-Famers, are well known for other activities, such as acting in movies, being successful in business, or even getting involved in crimes. Now, the list of inductees or the article itself SHOULD NOT include all those other details. They should only state the reason this or that athlete is in the list, or details about his football career, e.g. "Running back; Buffalo Bills 1969-1977; San Francisco 49ers 1978-1979". (Yes, I'm using the very characteristic example of O. J. Simpson!) However, the article would contain a link to the biography page of the relevant personality, whereby, of course, those other aspects of his life would be stated. I hope this is now clearer. -The Gnome (talk) 07:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, "card-cheat" is a characterization, while "pro gambler" is not; it's a term stating a person's line of work. There is no moral judgement in describing someone as a pro gambler. I would think calling someone in Wikipedia a "crook" or a "cheat" should only be acceptable if that someone has been convicted in a court of law, e.g. "G. Gordon Liddy is a convicted felon". (But O. J. Simpson is not a murderer.) I'll look this up in WP. -The Gnome (talk) 11:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I reverted an edit of yours

I reverted an edit of yours in the Card counting article. Just as a friendly FYI as to the reasoning behind that, if you're going to change a statement that's cited, you really need to include a citation for the new version. The criterion for information in the Wikipedia is verifiability, so even if you think the previous statement was inaccurate, it shouldn't be changed unless you include a citation to support the change. So if you want to revert it back, I have no objection as long as you include a citation. See WP:V and WP:RS. Rray (talk) 14:22, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] off-topic: speed count

regarding your earlier comment about speed count being a scam. I am not familiar with this specific technique other than what I've read in advertising and I'll check out the msg boards later tonight as I see there is some commentary along your same lines. Is the scam the cost to learn it, or is it a scam that the method doesn't work? (if it matters, I don't count when I play although I know I should.) SpikeJones (talk) 14:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Well then, I'll dust off my copy of KO and try to put it to use. Thanks for that. I'm just happy that I try to follow basic strategy and told friends last week that they were full of crap that the 3rd-base player controls the cards the dealer gets. (I was right, right?) SpikeJones (talk) 15:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

I'd suggest that we move our discussion here to your talk page or over to my talk page, since our disagreement has little to do with the article at this point. (I never asked that my page be re-added to the page as a reference, anyway.) Does that seem fair to you?

I think including a bibliography or a list of sources for my websites is a good idea, and I think you'd obviously agree. But I think accusations of "copying" are out of line. Rray (talk) 02:05, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Agree. I used the lighter word of copying instead of plaigerism for a reason. Nearly everything on that page appears to have been taken from Arnold's book. I know of no other source for this info. I just spoke to Schlesinger and Epstein and they don't either. Doesn't mean I'm not wrong. But each of us has extensive libraries and three+ decades in the field. Arnold and I don't always see eye to eye. But he appears to have done some great, unique, and difficult, research here, and if this is the source, then pardon me but I think "copying" is a valid comment considering the lack of attribution. Objective3000 (talk) 02:21, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. (The article on my website covers more than just the subject of Scarne - I don't know that I have multiple sources for that particular section of it.) I have no strong opinion on the content of the Scarne article (here) anyway. I'm open to your opinions on how to improve my website, by the way. You have my email address; feel free to email me. Rray (talk) 02:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Uh, wow. I didn't think that my seemingly innocent question about reverting 2 removed references would have resulted in all that conversation. Thank you for all that side education. SpikeJones (talk) 03:32, 5 March 2008 (UTC)