Talk:Nurse anesthetist

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[edit] See Also

I have seen the recent edits of 8 Jul 07 and agree that Anesthesia provision in the US is an important link.Aestiva 06:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Addition of References

May 23 - This page is undergoing an update with the inclusion of references. Please be patient as the process and research does take some time. Eclipse Anesthesia 15:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Again this article has been vandalised to reflect certain political view point found only in the US. It is immoral to disrupt the educational function of wikipedia to present a personal angry viewpoint. I appeal to the rest of the Wikipedia community to lock this page from further attacks. In addition, those of you who continue to edit this page anonymously to spread your own vitriol, are cowards.Aestiva 12:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)



The Wikipedia Nurse Anesthetist page is an important resource of information and education for the public worldwide. This english edition reflects mainly practice in the United States. Anesthesia practice in United States (and other countries) is provided by both nurse specialists and physicians. Therefore, practice models can be the source of debate among the specialty groups. This can lead to biased or Wiki vandalism on this web page. It is very important that this page remain factual and unbiased to respectfully represent the voice of the of American nurse anesthetists and nurse anesthetist worldwide. Therefore, this page is monitored and edited by representives of the Communications division of the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists. We hope to continue development and expand on the written and photo content, and encourage Wiki community input. Eclipse Anesthesia 21:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It does indeed mainly reflect the US role and this needs to be fixed. It does not need to "represent the voice of the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists (AANA) and nurse anesthetist worldwide", it needs to present the facts, which may or may not be to the AANA's liking. Wikipedia is not a vessel with which to promote this particular professional role, it is a place of information. --John24601 22:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Nurse anesthetist practice on over 100 countries, with very diverse roles and capabilities. It would take tremendous research and countless pages to present. So yes, this page now is focused on the US role, but does provide information on the IFNA. You imply that the AANA does not represent facts. I have studied anesthesia history for 15 years. If there is anything not factual on this page, please provide the details so it can be investigated and corrected. Eclipse Anesthesia 02:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Would someone please provide a reference to CRNA’s being allowed to operate a pain clinic? In my experience I have not encountered this. Additionally the line “CRNAs can administer anesthesia in all types of surgical cases” is a bit misleading because while some states allow for unsupervised CRNA practice no state allows for unlimited practice.Kubed 08:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC) Kubed

Nurse anesthetists do practice in pain clinics, but this is very limited, and those that do practice are with other physicians or an anesthesiologist, or are also certified as a nurse practitioner. Since pain medicine involved diagnosis, invasive procedures and outpatient medical and drug management, this is more in line with the practice of medicine, not CRNA or nursing practice. In respect to the line “CRNAs can administer anesthesia in all types of surgical cases”, this is not misleading, but can be better defined. The limits of CRNA practice are dependent on the hospital's credentialling process and allowed privileges for allied health practitioners. And just like physicians, privileges are based on prior training, certifications and experience. State law does not define this aspect of practice, it defines the extent of collaboration (or supervision) with the surgeon or anesthesiologist (if present). Certainly there are some facilities that limit what a CRNA can and cannot do. However, a majority of rural practices only have CRNAs, and therefore they have previleges to administer anesthesia in all types of surgical cases. I have worked in both rural and in urban medical centers, and have been fully credentialled with no restrictions on the procedure list. Again, it depends on the facility, not with state laws. Eclipse Anesthesia 13:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] reverts

I've just reverted a sequence of edits over the last few days, which have introduced a thread of vitriolic dissatisfaction with the role and made claims as to the safety & legality of nurse anaesthesia and its desirability compared to medical anaesthesia. These arguments are important and should, IMHO, be a central feature of this (and other advanced practice nursing) articles, however in the form they were presented they were not encyclopaedic: they read as anti-nursing rants based on nothing but the opinion of the editor. These are, however, widely held beliefs and it is important they're included, and I'd like to see them back, but preferably with reference to evidence, historical documents and expert opinion, and presented in a more balanced way. --John24601 10:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This page needs to be better referenced

If we're going to stop the constant editing of this article to reflect certain particular views, then we need to reference this more thoroughly (and to unbiased, third party sources). I don't work in america, so I don't know, for example, whether CRNAs have to work "under" doctors in all states, some states, or no states, but the constant jostling for position between each of the different camps is doing the article no good. Unfortunately, as I don't live or work in america, I have little idea where to start looking for sources, but those editors who hold each of the different opinions on this and other issues might want to point me towards some, or insert some in the article yourselves. We could also do with some comparison in the article somewhere between success rates in nursing & medical anaesthesia, I am aware of a study in the USA by Silber et al published in "Anesthesiology", but ideally we could do with a meta-analysis, which I'll start looking for. This is an important article, and could be very good, but we need to put a stop to the constant bickering! --John24601 06:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


Silber has been widely discredited. In fact an editorial in the issue in which it originally appeared took the authors to task for passing off their political posturing as scientific research.

Why, if you don't work in America, should you be so interested in CRNAs or their Wiki article?

deepzCRNA

I have a research interest in advanced nursing practice in the UK, and like to have some wider awareness of what's going on, especially because I am involved with the move for nurse-led anaesthesia in the UK. I don't have detailed knowledge of the Silber paper, I'm merely aware of its existance. I will look into what you said, but that doesn't change the fact that some facts & figures are needed to give credibility to this article. As I've already stated, I don't work in the USA and I don't have a huge deal of knowledge of how the system works, which is why I may not be the best person to do this. --John24601 06:28, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Have just had a quick look online at the Silber paper, and the contents of the entire edition, and can't see any editorial relating to it in that issue. Can you provide a reference, just to satisfy my curiosity? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by John24601 (talk • contribs) 06:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

My guess is that you must have a hard copy to view that editorial. Good luck

deepzCRNA 04:09, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Silber:

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=77382&postcount=8

deepzCRNA 13:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, whilst that's quite interesting, a post on a forum isn't exactly the same thing as an editorial in the journal edition the paper was published in, is it? --John24601 07:08, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

The majority of the content comes from two sources. The Communications office of the AANA from which I directly communicate with, and content from my personal resources. I am a history buff of anesthesia and have about 40 antique or collection quality text on anesthesia. I also have many old journals and documents. Included in my collection is Thatcher's History of Anesthesia, Roberson's Victory of Pain, Echenhoff's Anesthesia from Colonial Times, Key's History of Surgical Anesthesia, and the more recent Bankert's Watchful Care. All the information on the Wikipedia page come from these various sources that are considered credible and authoritative. Eclipse Anesthesia 15:41, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

That's great, but I think they each need to be individually referenced so that other users may go and read them themselves if they wish, to verify the claims. --John24601 15:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
This is something I want to start working on. However, most of these books are rare and out of print, making it difficult for someone to verify. I really don't know why anyone would go through all the effort to verify the claims. The word "claims" implies the possiblity of misleading text. I find this rather insulting. As I maintain and edit this page, I present the facts according to current practice and facts on history directly obtained from these authoritative sources. Eclipse Anesthesia 20:23, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure you're quite right in what you're saying, but the fact remains that it is wikipedia policy to cite claims in articles (see WP:V. And if you are synthesising things from a number of primary sources, then are you maybe not doing original research? Wikipedia needs not only to be transparent and unbiased, but needs to be seen to be so, and the best way to do this is to be as open as we can about where information came from :) --John24601 18:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

External links providing consumer information need not conform to everyone's chosen political viewpoint.

deepzCRNA 12:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)