Talk:Nova (novel)

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[edit] The Mouse's orientation

Re the Mouse's sexuality: I'd conclude he's probably bisexual. Despite the distinctly homoerotic friendship with Katin, he is described as having had relationships with women in the past: the girl he lived with in Melbourne (page 17) and in his bliss-induced monologue (page 184). RG Apr 07 2005

The sexuality of all the characters appear to be up for grabs, and I would agree the Mouse is probably the most obvious candidate. Other examples would be how von Ray reacts to the Mouse (i.e., when the Mouse plants a bare foot over his while playing the syrinx). In Delany's imaginary worlds, sexuality has practically no barriers, and almost all his characters would be considered "bisexual" in modern parlance. However, Delany didn't become open with his sexuality (in his literature, at least) until after this book was written. --L. 16:52, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Agreed. Still, I think a little caution is needed, not to interpret characters as gay or blatantly ambiguous just because it's a Delany novel. Going on purely internal evidence, Lorq (apart from that incident with the Mouse) is predominantly heterosexual; he's pursuing Ruby, and has fathered multiple children on New Brazilia.User:Raygirvan Apr 14 2005
On a similar note: "Several walk-in characters (i.e., a student spaceship enthusiast who hitchhikes with Lorq) are clearly presented as gay". That would be Brian? The one who says to Lorq, "You must have it pretty easy with girls, especially with a racing ship" ... Brian bit his thumbnail and nodded. "That would be nice. Sometimes I think girls have forgotten I'm alive. Probably would be the same, yacht or no." That reads to me as heterosexual and unsuccessful. Tearlach 23:58, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Tearlach, you just unknowingly confirmed Brian's gay status by mentioning the phrase "bit his thumbnail." If you had read Star in my Pocket, you'd immediately see that. Also, what Brian is doing is "scoping out" Lorq to see if he's gay or straight, a very subtle distinction that not all people can catch. --L. 15:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
So subtle as to be debatable. Even having read Stars in my Pocket, to me Brian just comes across to me merely geeky. Tearlach 21:51, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
He's gay because he "bit his thumbnail"??? Just because Delany finds that attractive does not mean that every character he creates who exhibits those characteristics is gay. I also find the arguments in favor of Mouse's bisexuality to be extremely tenuous. --Kdring 19:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Then the article stays as is, since by your own admission, you can't detect the motifs. --L. 22:11, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I have been reading and re-reading this page, and the more I look, the more the assertion that "several relationships in Nova suggest a gay or bisexual reading" simply seems like original work to me. Other than Delany's own sexual orientation there's nothing to cite that supports this theory. The fact that a character's orientation is not specifically stated does not automatically make their status open. Without evidence to the contrary, it simply cannot be assumed -- let alone verified and cited -- either way. Since no assumption or verification can be made, there is no reason for it to be included in the article. --Kdring 01:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and made the revisions. It's a pretty major cut, but barring citations to the contrary there really seems to be no reason for this stuff to be in the article. And thus it goes bye-bye. I also removed the reference to Delany's sexual orientation. Mostly due to the fact that other than using it as an excuse to theorize about possible homosexual relationships in the novel, it has no bearing whatsoever. --Kdring 18:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The tooth

"Additionally, in one scene, a character has a false tooth with poison gas hidden in it, an allusion to a scene in Frank Herbert's Dune".

I'm not sure it can be definitely stated as an allusion. Ruby's tooth doesn't contain poison gas but strychnine (p211). Tearlach 19:58, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I will then restore it by removing the word "gas," which is the most logical conclusion. And the allusion is clear, nor is Delany the only sci-fi writer to pay homage to Herbert by including this device. --L. 18:16, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tobias

"Their goal is to make enough money to free their third brother, Tobias, from servitude".

Where does that come from? According to p.36, Tobias stayed of his own accord. "...we made ready to leave. But Tobias would not go. His hands had taken up the rhythms of the tides, the weight of ore become a comfort on his palms-." Tearlach 21:46, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

This is extremely confusing - as you know from the end of the book, the arrival of the Illyrion shipment effectively puts Tobias out of work as a miner. The twins, in their "What Illyriom means to us" speech, imply that's why they're helping von Ray. However, I cannot think of a simple way to express this concept without giving away the end, which I'm trying to avoid. --L. 18:20, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
Still, it doesn't seem a watertight implication, when it's explicitly stated that he had the option to leave with them and chose not to. Tearlach 00:01, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
If you had read the entire novel, this is confirmed - when confronted by Prince, the two reveal this earlier-hinted-at motive. Like I mentioned above, this novel is subtle. --L. 15:35, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
But this happens on p191, after Lorq's full agenda has been revealed. However they, like the other cyborg studs, offered to join Lorq's crew before he had told them his plan. Tearlach 21:42, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Typo

Just a typo I suppose but this line.. "As an example, Gibson includes a character, Peter Riviera, introduced (like the Mouse) in Istanbul, with the same holographic projection powers (although via implants) as the Mouse in Neuromancer;" I changed to read Nova instead of Neuromancer

[edit] Abusive nature

I am questioning the statement that the threat to Ruby ("She knows what will happen to her . . .") hints at abuse. That was (and likely remains) a fairly common threat regarding punishment of any kind -- corporal or other. And while corporal punishment is considered less acceptable in society these days, it was much more common at the time the novel was written, and would not have been considered abuse. For all we (the unprivileged readers) know, he was going to take away her cell phone! I, for one, do not feel the statement in the book is strong enough to warrant the mention in the article. --Kdring 19:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Racial issues

I don't see why it's necessary to mention that Delany is African-American. Nor do I agree with bringing in the term "mulatto" when describing Lorq. If it had been used in the text of the novel, that would be another thing, but it wasn't, so I don't really see the point. --Kdring 19:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Nova(1stEd).jpg

Image:Nova(1stEd).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 06:31, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale added to image page. Dispute deleted. Kdring 19:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)