Wikipedia:Notice board for Romani-related topics

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Contents 1 List of Romani settlements 2 Food for thought 3 E Rromani chhib si jekh chhib (The Romani language is a language)! 4 Irish traveller's and others

[edit] List of Romani settlements

This article was started with a list of ghettos in Serbia, with a stereotypical focus on poverty, lack of hygiene (suggesting that this is the usual lifestyle of the Romani people) without any further non-stereotypical information about who are the Roma there. I think there should be searched for and added info about how many times the local authorities from South Eastern Europe stop any systematization projects (like water, electricity etc.) where the non-Romani neighborhood ends and the Romani one starts and to present also examples or Romani neighborhoods that are normal or even look better than the surrounding non-Romani, in order to dismantle these prejudices. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 10:58, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I just made an article about Zanya. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 12:11, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

For those who know the Romanian language, you may see here and here a study of the differences between a poor and a normal Romani neighborhood. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 12:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Food for thought

Hi, everyone. I was always a bit surprised by this template, specifically its "people" section. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the section does not appear to be matched in other such templates, and it is a bit problematic from two separate points of view: one is that, if properly done, the articles on various Romanian Romani people would expand beyond the template's coverage at some point; the other is that it currently does not include all prominent people to whom the designation applies. My proposal is this: create a List of Romanian Romani people to include all possible notable entries, and replace the section with a link to it (while keeping the template on all articles on persons, including ones to be created, as well as, perhaps, creating a template section on musical groups which would keep those as links). I personally am not sure if the List would satisfy the criteria others have in mind, but my other tentative proposal is the following: create or take into considerations lists of Romani people by occupation and other such criteria (that would group Romani people in various countries), and "national" lists - with the necessary but individually reduced overlap. In turn, either keep the List of Roma, Sinti and Mixed People as is (not sure about the terminology for that one, and pointing out that its title contradicts the capitalization rules) or turn it into a collection of links to various lists.

I'm not implying this is in any way urgent, but it may serve to streamline the various articles, per what we agreed should be done with the respective categories. Thoughts? Dahn 10:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

About the List of Roma, Sinti and Mixed People, I'll propose later, after I'll write articles about the fundamentals of the Romani culture, to separate it into List of Romani people and List of people with Romani heritage, because from the point of view of the Romani culture it matters the cultural not the genetic purity. With regard to that template, obviously it is necessary something like this. Personally, I had in mind to put the Category:Romanian Romani people. Probably the reason was that I did not understand until now why there are made lists, it looks to me like an overlap to the similar categories and I did not find until now a wiki policy about it. Are they necessary, in cases like these, is it better or customary to have in a template an article and not a category? Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 11:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

About the list(s): many users seem to think that they exist as a step towards categories, or as an additional way of grouping together articles of the same kind; I personally consider them of less merit than categories, except in cases like this one (for example, a list may clarify why Anton Pann is considered a Roma and by whom, whereas a cat wouldn't). About the template: at least in articles on persons, the category would already be present on the page (and it would be accessible through the category tree on any other page).

Personally, I would propose not separating Romani people and people with Romani heritage into separate lists, but into separate sections on a list of Romani people (and, possibly, on lists related to it). Dahn 10:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Then let's make such lists. About the separation between Romani and people of Romani heritage, I did not have yet the time to see other current choices on Wikipedia and how do they look like. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 11:04, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] E Rromani chhib si jekh chhib (The Romani language is a language)!

Hasn't anyone noticed that there is no Romani user language template on Wikipedia:Babel? I propose a code "rr" for Romani-speakers, and then we could have messages like Kado jeno vrakerel but mishto rromanes, Kado jeno chi vrakerel rromanes, etc. --Kuaichik 03:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree there should be a template, but if a template is constructed, it should use the ISO code, either "rom" for the Romani macrolanguge, or "rmy" for Vlax Romani. I think "rr" is assigned to another language. Ronline ✉ 11:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I actually created a language link a while back, with rmy (Template:Rmy icon). I needed it in Anton Pann. Dahn 11:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

There are already such templates at Romani Wikipedia, at rmy:Shopni:Jeno rom, just they are written at first person. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 20:38, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

In that case, why don't we add those templates to Wikipedia:Babel, but change the text from plural to singular (e.g. Kadalo jeno vakyarel...leski daki chib instead of Kadale jene vakyaren...lengi daki chib)? --Kuaichik 00:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Or should it actually be peski (one's own) instead of leski (his, i.e. belonging to some other guy, no?!)? --Kuaichik 14:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Leski is "his", peski is "his (one's) own", it is just stressed in the latter case. Yes, it might be a good idea to put the stressed form. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 11:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

All right, everyone! I have created the templates [1]; it still needs some improvement. I'll try to do what I can. (One user seems to have even added one of the templates immediately after I finished making it!) --Kuaichik 04:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, so he actually added the template months ago, and I can't seem to split the "pages in this category" between subcategories and users with these pages...but still! :-P --Kuaichik 05:12, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Now I have fixed those mistakes I found. Rromale, phralale, xav tumenge ile (Romanies, brothers, please - lit. "I eat your hearts"), help yourselves to these templates! --Kuaichik 06:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It's great that you made them, nais tuke. If I was not too specific, I did not have enough time to make them, currently I am busy in real life and I do only the minimal edits. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 08:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irish traveller's and others

I was under the impression that Romani are 'trans-national' peoples. I did some research on the Irish traveller's last year (an essay...not original research) and a vast majority of those Irish travellers interviewed by the ethnographer would always trace their Romani heritage to many different nations. (i.e. a Hungarian mother born in Wales and an Irish father born in France etc.) So should they be included?Doktor Waterhouse 14:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Irish Travellers are not Romani, just as the Jenische and Jews are not Romani. Yes, Romanies are "trans-national" in the sense that they can be found all over Europe, but they are not to be confused with other nomadic groups in Europe. But thanks for asking first! :) --Kuaichik 00:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)