Talk:Notes from Underground
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[edit] Changes
I should just start fixing it, but first I thought I'd start a discussion and make some notes... on Notes.
For instance, The Underground Man does not disagree with the notion that 2 and 2 are four. He believes that 2 and 2 are 4 is very important but that 2 and 2 are 5 is also very charming.
- He doesn't disagree with the notion, but when I read it, it seemed that he didn't think it was possible to attain the 2 and 2 equals four society, and even if we did it would not last long before someone asserted their existence in a spiteful way. --КровиссерTalk 18:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
The book is poking fun at the utopian socialists of his time. Dostoevsky particularly picks on Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Nicholai Chernishevsky. "What Is To Be Done?" was written by Chernishevsky while in jail and is practically unreadable.
The Underground Man refutes the accusation that man naturally does what is best and uses logic. He bases this on human history.
He is not incapable of action. He romanticizes the idea because he is very capable but knows that action will result in reprecussions. His spite is the spite in all people. His anger and hatred is that which we all carry.
In the end he refuses to be a tyrant by his own will, th eone thing man does have and the thing that destroys us. He can not love because love is an act of tyrany. It all comes from his dissillusionment with the utopian socialists.
All men are tyrants is the final message.:I read it as that man is irrational, and can never attain the goals that society promises. Perhaps really that is the same as "all men are tyrants". --КровиссерTalk 18:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
--jenlight 11:18, May 7, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Beatles song
I removed the sentence referring to a Beatles song "describing the protagonist of the novel" pending the unveiling of the name of the song. --TM (talk) 03:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] & What is to be done?
Should include some mention / analysis of parallels to What is to be done?- Notes from Underground is strongly influenced by that work —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Brain (talk • contribs) .
Just wanted to let ya'll know, I speak Russian and the literal translation of this book is "Notes from the dead house" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.118.13.132 (talk • contribs) .
The literal translation of the title of this book is not "Notes from the Dead House". The Russian title is "Записки из подполья" is literally Notes from "a place under the floor or field". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.79.65.129 (talk • contribs) .
- That seems more like it, I even read a critique that said "Notes from a mousehole" or something of the sort was even more proper. --КровиссерTalk 18:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Chronology of the parts of the book
The way the article reads, it seems like the second part of the book comes chronologically after the first, when it is really the other way around. That is, the beginning ranting and raving occurs after the stories, with Zherkov and Liza and such. It is those stories that drive him in his "hole", where he writes himself and then the stories. Oy, I think I have made this rather more complicated than it really is. --КровиссерTalk 18:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Plot Summary
I would just like to bring to attention the lack of links to other entries in the plot summary. I rarely see a section so sparse, but I like the asthetic ease in reading. Does Wikipedia have a rule/suggestion on what we should do? I think it looks good now, but I know that linking to other entries is encouraged. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.236.227.103 (talk) 00:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Plot Summary
The plot summary is way too full of interpretations and literay cricitisms. That should be sieved out and in another section or altogether deleted. As it stands now the plot summary is almost unreadable. JesseRafe 22:15, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Gender of servant
What is the gender of Apollon, the narrators servant?
In the beginning of the book, his servant is described as an "old country-woman". However, when the narrator talkes about sending money back to Simonov after the dinner party, for instance, Apollon is described as a "he": "[...]and asked Apollon to take it to Simonov. When he learned that there was money in the letter [...]".
Am I missing something here? Has D. mixed up the gender of the narrators servant on purpose?
- The first section of the book is set years after the second section. Apollon, the narrator's servant at the age of 24, is male. Seven years later, the narrator finally dismisses him, and replaces him eventually with the old woman mentioned in part I. --Clay Collier (talk) 06:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Officer Obsession - A problem
Problem in "Part Two"
There is mention with the obsession with the taking of revenge with the Officer by walking down the street and having to move around him. In fact what the "Underground Man" does is CLose His Eyes while walking toward the Officer and the officer does not not notice but he had moved aside for the Underground Man. Thus symbolizing the lack of awareness(consciousness) by the closing of the eyes, as reason for the ability hold steady in his path.
If you a bumping taking place - which you have described - please let me know of the translation.
jisaacflores@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.160.41.5 (talk) 15:48, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
