Talk:Norwich City F.C.

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[edit] Canaries nickname

I was under the impression that Norwich City FC's nickname 'The Canaries' came before their team colours, and that their colours were changed to reflect the nickname. According to football.co.uk the nickname came from the Norwich trade of breeding and exporting pet birds. There is in fact a type of canary called the 'Norwich Canary'. - Tim

[edit] Song

Where's "On the ball, city" then? GraemeLeggett 19:03, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] last para of 'history section'

Why all the guff in the last para about what's happening so far this season (up to new year 2005/06). We should stick to season end review info only. Otherwise it just becomes a long drawn out game-by-game blow out/.?


[edit] Song and dance

Considering the song concerning the clubs upward movement up the table hasn't been used for a while as we haven't been upwardly mobile for a while. Also Worthy is our King... no he's a hopeless manager with no knowledge of football. But thats another story altoogether

[edit] Zesh Rehman

Although Zesh Rehman was born in Britain, his national team has become Pakistan when he made his international debut on December 7 2005 against Sri Lanka in Karachi. Haiderhussain 15:04, 15 Mar 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ex-players

I've added an Great Players section so us canaries can remember some of our flown stars.... additions welcome! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsj1 (talk • contribs)

I'm a Tractor Boy but welcome the addition of the 'greats' section, I've renamed it "notable players" so we can add players like Justin Fashanu etc who are worth noting here. I've forgotten to add Chris Sutton, I'll attend to that! Budgiekiller 20:26, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I've added a pithy tag to each player. Quite tricky summing up a career/personality in a few words. Do people like the idea? Dweller 20:41, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I was tempted to do that, but not being a full-on Budgie I thought I'd leave it to your (collective) better judgement! I can't believe that Jeremy Goss doesn't have his own page judged on the number of times I had to endure Look East showing clips of him knocking in his incredible volley against the Germans... One of you Budgie boys has to make this right!!! As for the current tags, well worth adding them, but try to keep them NPOV and add fact rather than fan-based notes - Steve Bruce, for example, x-hundred appearences in defence, now successful (tee-hee!) Birmingham City manager... Just a thought! Budgiekiller 20:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
You're probably right. Sigh. OK, I'll edit. But it'll be so much less fun. Dweller 21:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canaries name

I don't get the "no mines in Norfolk" comment. I understood that Norwich was a hub for the international trade in canaries... making a dearth of local mines irrelevant. I'll see if I can "dig up" more info. (Sorry, couldn't resist) Dweller 10:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On the Ball, City

I think it deserve its own article, given its unique historic role in the development of football songs. Any consensus? --Dweller 09:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I think "One Nil to the Tractor Boys" should get its own page too... Whaddya reckon?! Budgiekiller 10:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes I agree, in my eyes the Norwich City song section should be renamed 'On the Ball, City' and the other songs removed. The other songs (maybe accept the Safri one) are simply generic football songs found anywhere in the UK and don't really need a section on the page. --Nuhouse 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Renamed 'Norwich City Songs' section 'On the Ball, City'. As said above generic football song section isn't really appropriate. --62.49.20.179 19:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Or we could...

....mention my very favourite of songs, "Top of the league, at Portman Road, la la la la" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.14.70.126 (talk • contribs)

Indeed, but who is top of the league at Portman Road? Budgiekiller 07:21, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A note on British English

British English should be used for articles on Britain related topics. Likewise, American English should be used on articles pertaining to American topics. For a clearer example, please visit this sub-section on the differences between their usage. --Siva1979Talk to me 05:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Personally I reckon that "is" works better than "are" since club is a singlular and not plural noun. I'm confident that a quick check in the back of the EDP will show singular usage. GraemeLeggett 09:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FA Drive

Hello all. This article is imminently going to become subject to a fierce featured article drive, by both budgies and binmen. Please be prepared to notice some major overhauling, some sections coming and going and plenty of [citation needed] tags all over the place. Join in, be bold and help push this article to new heights. All the best The Rambling Man 19:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Yellows" / "The Yellows"

Either (both?) of these a real nickname for City? --Dweller 16:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, other than the song "Come on you yellows", the Club is not really referred to as 'Yellows' or 'The Yellows'. Similarly, we sing "Oh when the Greens, go marching in...", but we're not nicknamed the Greens either. MLS - Mls11 00:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On The Ball, City

I think that the song is probably notable enough to deserve its own article, where full details of its history can be distilled. In that case, I'd reduce the mention of the song to one in the lead and another in the "Supporters" section, with a ref to the article. Consensus? --Dweller 08:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

In the absence of responses, I'm going to be bold. --Dweller 10:43, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] To-do

  1. Deal with all cn tags
  2. Expand Stadia section
  3. Deal with NCFC ladies (commented out currently)
  4. Make note-type refs into notes
  5. Check disambig on all former managers
  6. Consider removing all the managers from NCFC's pre League Status
  7. Attendance data?
  8. League position data?
  9. Consider repositioning/resizing images for artistic impression!

That's all. --Dweller 11:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crest

This has a 'citation needed' tag on it. Does it need citation? Surely our eyes can tell us what it contains? --CanaryOJ 13:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

We know it's a canary, but what's the building? That's what needs citation. The Rambling Man 14:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
The 'building' is Norwich Castle, which dominates the skyline of the City. The badge uses a stylised version of the one used on the City's coat of arms (a picture of which I've already added to the page) - Mls11 11:26, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested cuts to history section

Here's my suggested changes to the latter part of the history section:

The club were relegated to the First Division the following season[27]. Martin O'Neill replaced the sacked Deehan in the summer of 1995.[29] but lasted just six months in the job before resigning after a dispute with chairman Robert Chase over money to strengthen the squad.[30] Mike Walker was re-appointed as the club's manager.[32] He was unable to repeat the success achieved during his first spell and was sacked two seasons later with Norwich mid-table in the First Division.[33] Nigel Worthington took over as Norwich City manager in December 2000 following an unsuccessful two years for the club under Bruce Rioch and then Bryan Hamilton. In real danger of relegation to the third tier of English football for the first time since the 1960s,[34] Worthington avoided the threat of relegation, finishing x. The following season, he led City to a playoff final at the Millennium Stadium, which Norwich lost against Birmingham City on penalties.[35]

The 2003–04 campaign saw the club win the First Division title, finishing eight points clear of second-placed West Bromwich Albion and returned to the top flight for the first time since 1995.[36] For much of the 2004–05 season however, the club struggled and, despite beating Manchester United 2–0 and Newcastle United 2–1 towards the end of the season,[37] a last day 6–0 defeat away to Fulham condemned them to relegation.[38] A mediocre season followed in The Championship as the club finished in 9th despite hopes of bouncing straight back up to the top flight,[39] and as results in the 2006–07 season went against City, the pressure mounted on manager Nigel Worthington, culminating with his sacking on October 1, 2006, directly after a 4–1 defeat at the hands of Championship rivals Burnley.[40] On October 16, 2006, Norwich held a press conference to reveal that former City player Peter Grant had left West Ham United to become the new manager.[41]

This bit that was cut could go in the ownership section:

Soon after, Chase stepped down after protests from supporters who complained that he kept selling the club's best players and was to blame for their relegation.[citation needed] Chase's majority stakeholding was bought by Geoffrey Watling.[31]

English television cook Delia Smith and husband Michael Wynn-Jones took over the majority of Norwich City's shares from Watling in 1996,[31] and

It's a good idea, but the departures of O'Neill and Chase are intrisically linked and Chase's departure/Smith and Jones' arrival, can be seen as a very important point in the history of the club. For those reasons, I've left these details in the history section, referred to in the ownership section. --Dweller 15:54, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dates of Death

Does anyone know the dates of death for Bryan Thurlow and Bobby Brennan? They died in 2002, but I don't know the exact dates and they are still missing form the articles....--EH74DK 12:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoken version added

Just in time for the Main Page feature, I have added a spoken version of this article; see above for the link. Hassocks5489 22:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Popular Culture

Why has the section regarding NCFC in popular culture been removed? (I noticed the Ipswich page still has such a section.) Surely it is worth including a reference to "Mike Bassett - England Manager" as well as a link to the film's own page? There was also a 1972 Children's Film Foundation movie called "The Boy Who Turned Yellow" about a boy living in London who supported Norwich City! - Mls11 11:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mls. This was done following a good criticism at the nomination for FA, that it was too short to deserve a section. It's still there - just "commented out" (ie invisible). If you'd like to add the information about the 1972 film, I think that would help immensely - just remove the wikicode that makes it invisible and add your stuff. --Dweller 09:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
The film The Boy Who Turned Yellow has nothing to do with Norwich City F.C. -- SteveCrook (talk) 15:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, my mistake. NCFC does get a mention in the film. For all of about 15 seconds of screen time. I wouldn't have noticed it if I wasn't looking out for it and it's not at all significant to the story of the film. But as the team does get a mention I've restored the paragraph I removed -- SteveCrook (talk) 01:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Steve, and for adding a reference to it on your tribute site. I actually think the reference to NCFC within the film has some plot significance as it is used as an explanation for why John, rather than anybody else, is selected by Nick. Perhaps someone involved with the movie knew that NCFC were the "only team to play in yellow" or maybe it was a tribute to the Club who were promoted to the top division for the first time in the same year the film was released? I doubt we'll ever know! MLS (talk) 13:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Captains

i want to put all the pervious captains on the bottom of the page, can someone help me ŞĉŘεÈčḤ 11:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a nice idea, perhaps as a daughter article linked from this. Click this redlink and edit away! Captains of Norwich City F.C. Once it's up and running, we can link to it from here. Do you have a source? --Dweller 09:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
No i dont have a source but wot i have done is put on Adam Drury and Craig Fleming pages at the bottom is the they were captains. i dont know who is past Craig Fleming tho
ŞĉŘεÈčḤ 12:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
A nice idea, but I wonder just how many captains there have been? If you include those who take the arm band for one or two games when the 'full time' captain is injured, or after the captain is subbed, then there will usually be several each season. The only possible source I can think of is Canary Citizens, but I haven't checked. I doubt the Club even know to be honest! Mls11 19:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other pages requiring Canaries info

Would some Canaries fan who remembers it like to add some details to the 1975 League Cup Final page. (User:EddieCam, 2007-08-13)

[edit] Famous fans

This article has, in the past, had an extensive list of famous fans. This was removed during the successful run to WP:FA. I've reverted a partial reinstatement - such a list is subject to POV issues (who do you include/exclude?), as well as RS etc, but the most fundamental problem is that it's unencyclopedic. --Dweller 10:36, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I've just had my wrists slapped for posting a link to myfootballwriter.com/norwichcity. Apparently, the link does not comply with guidelines for external links. I was also told 'Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion'. So... links to Radio Norfolk and The Pink 'Un are different how? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nsm100 (talk • contribs) 14:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd probably have left it, but I can understand the reasoning - Radio Norfolk, The Pink 'Un & BBC Sport (and the EDP probably ought to be in there too) are likely to have further material that might be useful (as opposed to interesting) for people reading the article (and qualify as reliable sources, so material found there could be legitimately added to the article), while MFW is a two-fans-in-the-shed operation (albeit a very well run one) which could lead to a pile-up of "me too" linkspamming. (This is all my personal opinion, & not WP policy, it should be added.) — iridescent (talk to me!) 20:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Wow, I can get a lot of brackets into a one-sentence answer, can't I! — iridescent (talk to me!) 20:59, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Lol. The most relevant guideline section, for anyone interested in adding external links, is WP:EL#Links_normally_to_be_avoided. Thanks. --Dweller 10:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Hm. MFW isn't, as you put it, a two fans in a shed operation. We are fully accredited (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_DataCo) professional sports journalists. Try think of it like the newspapers backpages only online. It was set up by Rick Waghorn, chief football writer on the Norwich Evening News for 13 years. It is good to see you check your facts so very carefully though. (Nsm100 19:07, 3 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Seasons

Can someone help me on that because it seems i am the only one editing it :P. Screechy 13:45, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Can Someone edit this artice other than me please. Screechy 15:28, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Just made this chart and wondered if anyone thought it would be a good addition. I'm a complete novice at this and don't know how to do anything! Anyway, it's there if anyone wants it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ncfc_league_pos.jpg --Harr4067 (talk) 15:36, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Can someone update this page about the seasons bit please. Thanks Screechy 19:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC) xx

[edit] Loanees

Do we delete them now? CanaryOJ 19:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The squad, and who is (and isn't) in it...

This is getting ridiculous. Before someone gets themselves blocked for edit-warring, can we have a discussion here instead of on the main article? (There are at least two admins and one 'crat watching this page, so it's a reasonable bet the 3RR blocks are going to start kicking in soon if this doesn't stop.) — iridescent 00:20, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Right then. The club have announced that they are 'free agents' from now on, and even though they do/did have contracts running until June 30, then how do we knoe they haven't just been paid up? Even if they still are under contract, it serves no purpose whatsoever still having them in the squad list, and it is just being picky keeping them there. (CanaryOJ (talk) 00:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC))

My take: I personally agree that it doesn't do any good keeping them up - but I also can see that, as long as they're "officially" part of the squad — e.g., until their contracts expire or NCFC announces they've been released — they should stay on the list, with "contract expires soon" notes, as they are technically still part of the squad. That isn't a set-in-stone rule, though — I notice Arsenal no longer lists Flamini, for instance. I've invited Dweller, who's done the most work of anyone here on football lists, for his opinion. — iridescent 00:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
As the one taking the admittedly pedantic line, my point, which I have sought to apply here, at Brighton and at my own team, Gillingham, in the (forlorn?) hope that it might spread, is that an encyclopaedia should report facts as the stand at the moment they are read, not evaluate how meaningful in effect those facts are. As I understand it, players' contracts expire on 30th June: until then, the clubs are obliged to pay them, hold their registrations, and would be answerable to the FA if the players were to do anything extremely outlandish. Clubs use, I believe, the phrase "released" very loosely at this time of year: it means no more than "we have no interest in retaining him". However, as I understand it, although these players might agree to join another club at any time in the next few weeks, they are not free to join them, transfer their registrations or become part of the payroll until 1st July. I would refer you to the tacit compromise at Gillingham F.C., which has had no objection from one of the foremost English footie editors (IMHO), Chris The Dude, whereby players who are to leave on 30th June are asterisked (is to asterisk a verb?) but included. I have no objection to their being removed from the squad template, although those are fairly meaningless at a time when squad membership is likely to change appreciably before the next match.
As regards the player articles, I would suggest that they should read something like Noel Christmas (born 25th December 1980) is a Laplander footballer currently at Arctica FC, but who is to leave the club at the end of his contract on 30th June 2008: in a couple of weeks, that might become ... but who is to leave the club, and join North Pole United, at the end of his contract on 30th June 2008.
As regards the comments above, I would say that "being picky" about accuracy in an encyclopaedia is not a criticism: this is an encyclopaedic project, not a fan site or a pub conversation, in neither of which I would have a problem with saying that Huckerby has left Norwich. And I cannot see how whatever an editor has done to Flamini's name on the Arsenal article establishes a meaningful precedent. Kevin McE (talk) 08:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Alright, let's go with the compromise and add an asterisk, if everyone agrees. (CanaryOJ (talk) 14:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC))
I'd go with that. — iridescent 15:24, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. What chance of extending this across Wiki football articles? Kevin McE (talk) 16:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Nil I suspect - we have articles on 1211 English and 267 Scottish clubs, plus 206 other countries worth of clubs, plus all the individual player bios. Even if you can get WPF to agree on a standard, it'd be more trouble than it's worth to enforce, given that all these issues will correct themselves either way come July. — iridescent 17:42, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Greatest Ever Team

Are we going to put that in or not.. Screechy 12:02, 25 May 2008 (UTC)