Talk:Northern Rock

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[edit] Emergency Lending

This is not the first time since the 1970's that the Bank of England has used the emergency lending facility, as the articles on Sky News and the The Telegraph confirm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 03vaseyj (talk • contribs) 21:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, but it is almost certainly going to be Northern Rock as Alistair Darling has said that no other lender had requested assistance.Fears about future of Northern Rock grow Yorkshiresky —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yorkshiresky (talk • contribs) 14:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure the 2 articles above are talking about the same thing- however the shortness of the articles and lack of detail means I'm not sure. Astrotrain 14:48, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Barclays used the BoE's "lender of last resort" facility twice in August - see [1], [2]. There may be a distinction being made between the "standing" LOLR facility and the "emergency" facility that seems to have been made available to Northern Rock. However, the statement in the article that says Northern Rock "is the first bank in the UK to require funding from the Bank of England since 1972" is clearly wrong, so I have removed it. Gandalf61 12:11, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
The Barclays incident was different- it is relatively common for UK banks to sometimes borrow from the BOE at the end of a day. The Northern Rock case is different as its ongoing funding. Astrotrain 13:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
The BoE normally lends to UK banks through open market operations at the official bank rate for overnight loans and at market rates for longer term loans. The lender of last resort (LOLR) facility is different from normal lending because the BoE charges banks a penalty interest rate, typically 1% above base rate, for using this facility - this ensures that it really will only be used as a last resort. See [3] for further details. It was the LOLR facility that was used by Barclays - it was not normal overnight lending. The emergency facility offered to Northern Rock may be longer term, but it is clearly not the only recent use of the LOLR facility. Gandalf61 17:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Such loans are not normally classed as the Bank of England acting as LOLR as they are overnight loans paid back the next day and are part of the BOE's normal role in the money markets. The Northern Rock has been given access to unlimited loans for unlimited periods to cover its liabilities. This is a rare occurance and last happened in 1972. Astrotrain 18:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
The news articles I referenced above say "Barclays has turned to the Bank of England as the lender of last resort for the second time this month after at technical breakdown in the clearing system". It seems quite clear that Barclays did use an LOLR facility. Do you have a source that says otherwise ? The emergency facility offered to Northern Rock may be deeper and longer term than the facility used by Barclays, but my point is that this is not the first time since 1972 that the BoE has acted as LOLR. Gandalf61 08:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
The news article is using the term incorrectly. It even states further down that this type of loan is not uncommon. In anycase, this is the first time that the Bank of England has rescued a bank since 1972. Astrotrain 20:07, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes The Barclays use of BoE funds was totally different. It's all rather technical I'm afraid, but we must correct the article and I have done so. NBeale 21:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think your edit to the article clarifies the difference nicely. It is not so very unusual for the BoE to act as "lender of last resort", which is what it did for Barclays (I notice that Astrotrain does not provide a source to back up his assertion to the contrary). What is exceptional about the Northern Rock situation is that the size and duration of the LOLR facility requested by Northern Rock went so far beyind the BoE's usual activities that it required authorisation by the Treasury, under the Memorandum of Understanding between the Treasury, the BoE and the FSA. One minor correction - I think the correct terminology is Tripartite Standing Committee, rather than Tripartite Authority. Gandalf61 13:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

The article says, Northern Rock asked for Emergency Funding on 12/09/2007, but the cited BBC source does not say anything about the date. The only date connected with the Emergency Funding is 13/09/2007, when the BBC reported that Rock had being granted the funding. Timeline: Rock Crisis I suggest to change the article here, as there is no evidence for Rock asking on 12/09/. There was however a speech by Mervyn King, who assured, that if any bank would need funding, the Bank of England would provide it. One could interpret, that Rock had asked already at this point, but that is specualtion! Andiloew (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed text

In one incident, police were called to the branch in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire when two joint account holders barricaded the bank manager in her office after she refused to let them withdraw £1 million from their account. Their money was held in an internet only account, which became inaccessible after the Northern Rock website crashed due to the volume of customers trying to log on

I don't see how the actions of one member of the public are relevant to the article. I removed it, but my edit was undone, so I'm putting it up for discussion here. Should it stay or go? --h2g2bob (talk) 15:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

While it isn't real very encyclopedic, it is of note, and attracted a fair bit of attention, as well as illustrating the lengths some have gone to to withdraw their money. Stay I'd say. Larklight 18:09, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
It's a significant incident in the crisis, and makes an illustrative point to the chaos at Northern Rock branches throughout the UK, and the problems with on-line accounts. It was widely reported in the UK and foreign press. Astrotrain 18:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The report of the incident finishes without a conclusion

What has happened since? Is the bank run still ongoing? have things settled down? have they been bought out? have they gone bust? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plugwash (talk • contribs) 15:13, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Added relevant information how the situation was calmed down. Andiloew (talk) 23:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More information becomes available

Various Internet sites have published the following text, which allegedly formed the executive summary of a plan, put together by Merrill Lynch, Citi and The Blackstone Group, to sell stricken mortgage lender Northern Rock, code-named Blackbird. The web sites claim this "Briefing Memorandum" has been sent to all potential acquirers.

Text Deleted Preceding unsigned comment added by GrahamSmith (talk • contribs) 06:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I have now removed the Project Blackbird text as the website I copied it from does not have a GFDL-compatible license. Preceding unsigned comment added by GrahamSmith (talk • contribs) 06:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] TV programme

BBC2 Run on the Bank: Northern Crock Friday, 9 Nov 2007 7:00pm - 7:30pm (30 minutes) -- John 14:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Northern Rock Logo.png

Image:Northern Rock Logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 17:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2007/8 rewrite

Is anyone up for the task of rewriting the article; to tidy it up and update it properly after the fate of the bank is sealed?

Also, in the event that whoever gains control of the company changes the name; does anyone think the page should be entirly moved to the new page, or have the Northern Rock article left as it is and a new article created? SkeletorUK (talk) 22:01, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

No, because as everyone has their own pet piece of information, such rewrites become fraught <g> ! If you use Wikipedia:Recentism as a guide you might well be able to reduce it to a few paragraphs. It might be worth asking the League of Copywriters for help. I don't know what the guidelines say, but Midland Bank is separate from HSBC which took it over in 1987. -- John (Daytona2 · Talk · Contribs) 18:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Floated

The article states that the society was floated on the London stock exchange. I'm not familiar with this expression. Does it mean that shares of the society were offered..floated...on the stock exchange? JGC1010 (talk) 23:53, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes - from wikt:float, to float is "to issue or sell shares in a company (or units in a trust) to members of the public, followed by listing on a stock exchange." --h2g2bob (talk) 00:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Public ownership

As of 18 February the bank remains in private hands. The public takeover will not occur until the legislation goes through Parliament. So changes to the effect that NR is nationalised or in public ownership are premature. Harry the Dog (talk) 13:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

As of 22 Feb, the bank is in public onwership: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7258492.stm The article might want to be changed now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.31.206.206 (talk) 12:49, 22 February 2008 (UTC)