Talk:Northern Praying Mantis (martial art)

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Contents

[edit] Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art add yourself!

Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art

[edit] Gathering of the 18 Masters: Historical or Legendary?

"Shaolin records document that Wang Lang was one of the 18 masters gathered by the Shaolin Abbot Fu Ju, which dates him and Northern Praying Mantis to the Song Dynasty (960–1279)."

Everyone's heard the legend of how Abbot Fu Ju gathered the 18 masters at Shaolin during the EARLY Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127). However, and I hate to say this, the dating for this gathering is incorrect! This "Fu Ju" is actually a legendary persona of the real Abbot Fu Yu (福裕) who lived from (1203-1275), towards the END of the Southern Song Dynasty (1127-1279).[1] He was given posthumous names and titles by Kubla Khan after his death. This means, the gathering either took place at the end of the Song Dynasty or not at all!

Plus, I've seen a list of the 18 masters and their skills and some of them were bandits from the Water Margin novel. You would think that most of them would have been long dead by the time Fu Yu was appointed abbot and gathered the masters.

Although the quoted paragraph is non-descript in its detail about the exact time the gathering took place, the dating discrepancy should be addressed in the article. All viewpoints should be covered. (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 18:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] "Schools" section

Looks like the "schools" section is a bit confusing. Lots of names and places in a very condensed paragraph. Also, is it correct? It says:

Lee Kam-Wing, whose successors include John Cheng of the United States, Brandon Jones of Texas, Latouille Fabien of France and Dirceu Amaral Camargo of Brazil

However, it looks like Dirceu Amaral Camargo of Brazil is not a successor of Lee Kam-Wing, as per the Mantis Cave:

http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/leekam.htm

http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/qixing.htm

Master Camargo seems to be actually a disciple of Chan Poi (Chen Bei) of Wah Lum: http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/hualin.htm

But who knows, he could have studied with Master Lee Kam-Wing first...

Can anyone help with this?

[edit] Mantis Hook (and maybe some other Mantis related) photos?

C'mon... I'm sure someone can come up with a photo of the hook. Maybe also some other photos.

If I can get permission from the copyright holders, I will be adding a comparison photo of a practitioner doing the Hook fist posture and a mantis holding up it's hooks. It will be a merger of two different photos. --Ghostexorcist 07:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Taken care of. --Ghostexorcist 23:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I have to disagree with the section on the mantis hook, having studied mantis boxing with a lineage holder of 7 star mantis boxing, his contention was that anyschool which presented the hook as a precision striking device rather than it's tradition intention as a grappling hold (primarily of course), was inauthentic. I think that mention should be made of the grappling hold application as a primary application with others as perhaps secondary. Pierre 18 Jan 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.97.245.84 (talk) 03:04, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you have a verifiable source to support your claims, feel free to add it to the article. If not, we can't rely on hearsay. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 03:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
I've seen both in Shandong Province, China. Depends on the lineage. It's usually taught as a defensive/grabbing technique with the thumb and two fingers extended. But after the block it can easily be converted into a strike without altering the hand, keeping the fingers extended and using the knuckles of the ring finger and pinky as a striking surface. A good source for more information about this is Ilya Profatilov, who has done lots of research in China about the history and lineage of Plum Blossom and Six Harmonies mantis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.152.243.241 (talk) 21:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Published sources are more preferred. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 21:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] opening paragraph

There is far too much info in the opening section that is never mentioned anywhere else in the article. The opening is supposed to summarize the article. So I think someone needs to shorten the info at the top and include it full-length in the main body. (Ghostexorcist 07:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC))

I have corrected the problem voiced above and have renovated the page a bit for conformity and added more info and a picture. --Ghostexorcist 06:33, 9 August 2007 (UTC)