Talk:Northern Mariana Islands

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As the page I linked to indicates, the islands were inhabitated around 1500 BC by Chamorros, way before the US existed. I therefore find strange that the article does not cover at all history before the US invasion.

Well, the article was probably derived from the public domain CIA factbook. You welcome to update it. older≠wiser 23:30, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Name In Official Languages

Most Wiki entries for nations and territories list the name of the country in the official languages beneath the English-language name. What is the Chamorro name and Carolinian name for the Northern Mariana Islands?

I am not aware of a name that refers to the islands collectively. Chamorro refer to individual islands by their modern name or a few local colloquial names (e.g., Aguijan is sometimes called "Goat Island"). Ancient naming has been lost, although I am not 100% certain about this with Carolinians in the CNMI. CyberAnth 17:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. The Chamorro translation of the U.S. Government's Social Security Fact Sheet refers to the CNMI as both "Islan Notte Marianas" and "Sankattan Siha Na Islas Marianas". Any thoughts as to which is correct? The former certainly seems to be a more direct translation. In the latter, I've deduced that "Na" means "the", but I'm not sure about "Sankattan" or "Siha". Any Chamorro speakers out there that can solve this? If we figure this out, we can add it to the main entry.

There is no single official translation, so numerous variation are seen, but the latter one above seems to be the version most commonly used in NMI government publications. "Sankattan" means "northern," "siha" makes it plural, and "na" links an adjective to a noun.

Thank you very much for your explanation. I added the Chamorro name to the main entry. Do you know any Carolinians who could tell you what they would call the NMI?

[edit] Section edit

There seems to be some problem with aligning the table and still retaining the section edit tags. I've fixed the alignment problems, but the section edit tags have been left out. If someone can find a way to incorporate them, they are welcome. User talk:iKato

[edit] ChamorroBible.org

I have removed the link to ChamorroBible.org. While Chamorro is spoken in the CNMI (and Guam), I feel it's Link spam. - HoshieCrat 03:00, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Natives dead

Nearly all of the islands' native population died out during Spanish rule,

Why? Disaster? Illness? Extermination? Bad management?

Did they die out or were they shifted around? And define a lot. I know the Germans and Japanese moved Chamorro and Carolinians around the islands, from here to there. --PurplePopple 11:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I believe its because of disease. The same thing happened in other Pacific islands, the Americas and Australia -Jcdizon 03:24, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Territory of Guam and Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands

Is there any movement for unification of the Territory of Guam and Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands? Everton 10:13, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

AFAIK, there is no current movement for Guam and the CNMI to come together. However, there have been some who have talked about this (see this link; the person who wrote this piece favors statehood for Guam). In 1969, the Mariana Islands district of the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands (TTPI) and Guam voted on a merger. The Mariana Islands district voted yea, Guam voted nay. Since then, there has been no action on this. - Thanks, Hoshie | North Carolina flag 02:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Situation of working women / the Jack Abramoff scandal

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff#Saipan_and_Northern_Mariana_Islands -- the Northern Mariana Islands have been in the news this past few years, revealing what sounds like a terrible situation for women factory workers (sweatshops, sexual exploitation, forced abortions). But apart from one external link (a "Fresh Air" radio show on NPR), that situation isn't mentioned in this article. I would have added a line or two myself, but I have no idea what's going on at present. It's easy to find news media coverage of the Abramoff scandal as a scandal, but I haven't seen any up-to-date coverage of the situation of these women (which says something sad about the priorities of the general news media, I think). -- DSatz 12:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

You will not find such things mentioned in the local press unless they have no choice to mention them because an outside group has again addressed the issue. You will usually only hear positives about improvements. It is self-censorship to improve image. The link to Ms. Magazine, the NPR, and http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/24/017.html do depict the situation pretty well. CyberAnth 17:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

There is now a proposed WikiProject dealing with the area of Micronesia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Micronesia. Any interested parties should add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest in this project to try to officially start it. Thank you. Badbilltucker 21:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Imperial German Flag

At the very bottom of the page, as if it were hiding, there is an image of the Second Reich German Flag and the Coast of Arms. I understand the link between the Northern Mariana Islands and German occupation, but does each page linked to Germany have its flag and coat of arms on it?

There seem to be a number of pages that have the flag linked to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_German_Empire.svg

Is this a common practice? If so, ignore my comment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.197.77.130 (talk) 20:36, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

Well, the good news is that they're not there anymore. I wonder how they got there in the first place, anyway. How gould you get an image or text down so far on the page? And when I tried to edit the page and remove the flag and coat of arms, there was nothing there. I found that mighty peculiar. --Kschwerdt514 02:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The flag is trancluded through Template:Former German colonies (normally hidden) which links to List of former German colonies. --FordPrefect42 (talk) 10:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Villages

 Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (February 2007)

It would be nice to have a list of villages by population. -- Beland 00:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guam contents irrelevant to NMI

I noticed some Guam-related info not relevant to this entry, such as Sergeant Yokoi and Japanese occupation of Guam. Should these be deleted or moved to the Mariana Islands entry? HkCaGu 00:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chamorro Scouting

Can someone render "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Chamorro? Thanks! Chris 15:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forced Chamorro Evacuation

Amazingly missing in the history portion is that the Spanish forcefully relocated all Chamorros to Guam in order to convert them to the Spanish culture and religion, and that explains why Carolinians are as native as Chamorros in the NMI, since when Chamorros were allowed to return to the NMI, the Carolinians were already there. Can someone look this up and add something to this article? HkCaGu 06:02, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Listing of GW Bush in template

George W. Bush is not "Head of State" of the Northern Mariana Islands, but Head of State in in the Northern Mariana Islands. Listing him in the table as such implies the former and is misleading. We don't list him in invdividual state articles (e.g. California), so why should we list him here?--Jiang 21:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Such a listing is standard for dependent territories. -- Beland (talk) 03:38, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Loose labor regulations cause trafficking and forced abortions?

Under Exemptions from some federal regulations it says:

"The inapplicability of Federal labor regulations has resulted in some extreme labor practices, not common elsewhere in the United States. Some of these labor practices include forcing workers to have abortions, as exposed in the March 18, 1998 episode of ABC News' 20/20, and enslaving women and forcing them into prostitution, as the U.S. Department of Justice conviction of several CNMI traffickers in 1999 attests." (Emphasis mine.)

Is this a result of the lack of labor regulations? I.e. were these practices that were legal in this territory? The mentioned conviction shows that this was not so for trafficking. I have no idea about forced abortions.

It would seem plausible if the claim was that a lack of federal oversight led to these problems (not saying this is so - just that that would be a plausible causation). Even so, drawing the connection and concluding that B was caused by A is not the place of Wikipedia - speculation. If there are arguments to be made about this, Appropedia or Issuepedia would be good wikis to analyse and debate, rather than here.

I will tone down the wording, breaking the implied causality. --Chriswaterguy talk 10:05, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Very good edit. Either the federal government or the CNMI government could have prosecuted if there was adequate enforcement and the violations were known to the right people. The "inapplicability" really only mattered in terms of wage--I've seen USDOL prosecutions on employers not paying overtime. It doesn't matter it was $3.05 per hour; if you didn't pay them 150% or $4.58 per hour after 40 hours, the feds can still go after you.

Now in both Saipan and Northern Mariana Islands a lot improvements can still be made to update the recent changes. For example, Tan Holdings (the biggest company/conglomerate in the CNMI) was among the violators in the class-action suit, but in recent years they have the better working conditions among all the factories, especially how they handled their closures (gave out a million bucks they didn't have to, compared to some who just walked away owing back wages). Both the improvement in the garment industry's work environment and the demise of the industry are probably mentioned, but not balanced with the historic negatives in both articles. HkCaGu (talk) 17:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


The following is still not acceptable:

"However, the lack of labor regulation is not without controversy.

Some extreme labor practices, not common elsewhere in the United States, have occurred. Some of these labor practices include forcing workers to have abortions..." (original wording)

It still implies a causal relationship when in fact these practices are mere criminal endeavors. The use of force to effect an abortion or coerce women into prostitution is already illegal. When such things happen in highly regulated labor markets, we do not conclude that the regulations should have been stricter yet. There is simply no causal relationship here. The simple fact that trials resulted from these violations indicate that the Law (criminal Law) was already covering such actions. I suggest the wording be changed to something such as:

"However, the lighter labor regulations are not without controversy.

Some illegal labor practices are known to have occurred..." (proposed changes)

77.193.184.76 (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Abbreviations

Why are NMP and MP abbreviations for the Northern Mariana Islands? What does the "P" stand for? --FordPrefect42 (talk) 10:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Never heard of "NMP", but I've heard "MP" stands for "Marianas Pacific". According to United States postal abbreviations it used to be "CM" before 1988. There aren't a lot of second letters available after "M", so "P" might have been the best choice.HkCaGu (talk) 17:16, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, NMP should read MNP, my fault. Thanks for the answer so far, "Marianas Pacific" sounds okay (what about inserting that info in the article?). --FordPrefect42 (talk) 22:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Do residents of the Northern Marianas need visas to travel to the Schengen Area?

The Schengen Agreement encompasses much of Europe, e.g. France, Germany, Italy and many other countries. The article [European Union visa lists] asserts that the Northern Mariana Islands is an "annex 1" territory, meaning that its citizens require a visa to enter the Schengen area. Apparently that's because the Northern Marianas appears in the list on page 10 of this document. Is this true in practice? There's some discussion of this at Talk:European Union visa lists. --Mathew5000 (talk) 10:43, 25 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Is it just me, or..

does this country have the *ugliest* flag ever? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.159.174 (talk) 20:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced quotes

I removed unsourced quotes from Northern_Mariana_Islands#Exemptions_from_some_federal_regulations. Superm401 - Talk 02:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Federalization

I'm too busy to write, but Congress has passed and the President has signed the new law taking over CNMI immigration in the next year and establishing a congressional delegate this fall. Adding to that the garment industry is more than half gone, anyone please feel free to update this article (and maybe Saipan too). HkCaGu (talk) 17:24, 18 May 2008 (UTC)