Talk:Northern City Line

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Contents 1 Great Northern Electrics 2 Name "revived" 3 Mileages 4 Interchanges 4.1 Connections moved to text 5 Railway maps argument moved to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_Railways 6 Lothbury

[edit] Great Northern Electrics

I've always known this line as Great Northern Electrics and I'm pretty certain that that's how it was signposted at Moorgate until relatively recently. Are my suspicions correct and, if so, could someone who knows more expand the article a little to explain how? :o) — OwenBlacker 15:16, Jun 24, 2004 (UTC)

I think it was the name of the train service rather than the line, but yes, you are right - it did say that at Moorgate (and probably elsewhere) until quite recently and I think this was probably the name of the service under BR, that is, after it ceased being an Underground service. I don't quite understand the history but at some point along came privatisation and the new name WAGN - again this is really the service not the line. So I have added a note where it says about WAGN services to point out the earlier name for those services. Hope this helps. --Nevilley 23:00, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Name "revived"

In the article it says this: The name "Northern City Line" has been revived to refer to the underground part of the route. I wondered in what sense this is true - who revived it, and what usage does it get? I mean, we are talking about it here under that name because, well, that's its name and (as noted above) it's important to have a name that specifies the line, not a service that happens to run on it. But where's this "revival" - do WAGN use it or something? Or TFL?? I am not trying to be argumentative here - I really want to know! :) --Nevilley 23:06, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I did see it on the WAGN website, I promise, though I can't remember where. I suspect I was looking for it, to fit with the article I wanted to write. I can't now work out why I picked on that particular version of the name. I thought it was based on CULG but looking at that now, the "Northern City Line" name is only mentioned in passing. I'm as baffled as you. --rbrwrˆ 21:20, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Mileages

I am of trusting that my additional of mileage data is not upsetting of any person. Have I been doing of wrong?? Please be lenient to me if my action is not of acceptable. I am meaning to be true. I regret my doing. I am taking of reparations. Canterberry 00:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interchanges

Why do some people seem to have such a bugbear about including interchanges on the line diagram for this line? The line interchanges with the Northern Line at Moorgate and Old Street, and with the Victoria Line at Highbury and Finsbury Park, not to mention also interchanging with the North London Line at H&I and Thameslink at Moorgate, and yet every attempt to put these on the diagram is met with almost immediate reverting. Why is this? Hammersfan 02/05/07, 12.49 BST

The map has a SYMBOL indicating an interchange with the LUL. The map does NOT need to show this explicitly, as to do so complictates the map with out adding any significant value. I have reverted your un-needed change. Canterberry 12:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

If we add the Victoria Line at Highbury, then for consistency we MUST add it at Finsbury Park, and Moorgate, which will mean that the map will become too complex, and be dominated by other routes. Trust me, the map is fine as it is. Canterberry 12:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Quite simply, the route map for this route only needs this route shown on it. If you start adding all the interchanges on it, it becomes totally unreadable (see a similar discussion on the Thameslink talk page). The text of the article can discuss interchange opportunities (if necessary), interested people can then click the relevant station link. Remember, the purpose of the map is to show the route, not to show how good we are at using the map templates. DrFrench 12:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The thing that you don't seem to be taking on board is that the North London Line IS NOT an Underground line. It is a route on the Silverlink network that interchanges with the NCL at H&I - hence it is a National Rail line and, as with other National Rail interchanges on other route diagrams, should be included. Hammersfan 02/05/07, 13.52 BST

Well it's not an interchange as such, until the late 1960s they were completely separate stations, in fact they still are - they just share a common entrance. Your counter suggestuon of removing the ECML link is folly. The NCL does link with the ECML and when the NCL is closed, the train service runs to Kings Cross. I'm not suer why you are determined to complicate what is quite a simple route diagram? What it is missing is an indication of the former tunnel terminus at Finsbuiry Park (although there is no current icon for this.)

BTW, you are in danger of violating WP:3RR. DrFrench 15:55, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Hammersfan, the simpler the map, the better. I have removed the ECML connections as being superfluous and adding complexity to the map. Simplicity works for me. Canterberry 16:13, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Connections moved to text

Having examined the recent history of this route map, I realise I am treading on eggshells here...

I have been bold and revised the map again, however, this has been done with careful thought:

• Firstly, I have removed ALL of the other-line connections to the body of the text: this makes the diagram MUCH simpler. (How the information is presented within the text is a separate matter.)
• Secondly, I have re-instated the East Coast Main Line. The article clearly states that services run from this line north of Finsbury Park. My revised diagram shows that the NCL is a branch off the ECML (which is how it is shown on the ECML diagram), and should avoid the problems seen in earlier versions.
• Thirdly, as it is mentioned in the text, I have shown a representation of the in-tunnel terminus at Finsbury Park. Unfortunately we don't have a 'closed' variant of the 'station in tunnel' icon, yet, but including the tunnel mouth makes this fairly clear.

The result is a routemap that shows just the essential route and historical information. (Remembering that this article is about a section of railway line, not just a train service.) Indeed, it should now be possible to re-instate the mileage figures added earlier by User:Canterberry without affecting the clarity of the map.

EdJogg 23:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Northern City Line
Legend East Coast Main Line Victoria & Piccadilly Lines Finsbury Park Victoria & Piccadilly Lines Drayton Park Highbury & Islington Essex Road Old Street Moorgate

It's an improvement to show the now closed section of tunnel to Finsbury Park and the NCL as a branch of the ECML, but the map is still not quite right as the old NCL platforms at Finsbury Park were not actually closed but have been retasked for use by the Southbound Victoria and Piccadilly Lines. The map therefore ought to show the former below ground station as in use with links to the Victoria and Piccadilly Lines. The icon set is short of the necessary icons to display this correctly but it would look something like this: --DavidCane 12:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Railway maps argument moved to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_Railways

I have started an argument here Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_Railways#Do_the_railway_line_maps_conflict_with_WP:NOT.3F Canterberry 18:13, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lothbury

Could someone maybe put Lothbury on the line diagram? I would but I'm having trouble understanding the map's syntax. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by OutrageousBenedict (talk • contribs) 11:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)