Talk:North Channel (Great Britain and Ireland)

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Contents 1 WikiProject class rating 2 Rename Article to North Channel (Britain and Ireland) 3 Straw Poll 3.1 Discussion 4 Bardcom and the British Isles 5 Swapping order of Irish and Scottish Gaelic

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 16:07, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename Article to North Channel (Britain and Ireland)

I propose that this article is renamed to "North Channel (Britain and Ireland)". It is a more appropriate disambiguation, and is more accurate. Bardcom (talk) 19:50, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Support renaming - it's the channel between Britain and Ireland, after all, not the channel between the British Isles and the mainland. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 20:52, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Surely North Channel (Irish Sea) is more accurate?Traditional unionist (talk) 18:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Is it? I thought it was more descriptive to mention the two islands that it's a channel between. Is the North Channel an extension of the Irish Sea in some way? Bardcom (talk) 19:18, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I too think North Channel (Irish Sea) is the right way forwards here. --Jza84 |  Talk  20:45, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Surely it would be a part of the Irish Sea and therefore using the wider body it is a part of is the best option. Thats my 2p worth anyway.Traditional unionist (talk) 20:50, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

That's a very bad idea. The North Channel is not part of the Irish Sea per se, neither is St George's Channel. They are three distinct entities. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Bardcom has gone ahead with his proposal without obtaining consensus here. Reverting... Waggers (talk) 12:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Straw Poll

From other discussions elsewhere, I'd like to propose the following options. Please indicate your support or opposition accordingly. Bardcom (talk) 14:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

This poll has closed. The result is to change the article to North Channel (Great Britain and Ireland) with 3 supports and only one oppose. Bardcom (talk) 19:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• Option 1 - North Channel (Great Britain and Ireland)

• Support I think this is the best term as it uses geographical names of islands Bardcom (talk) 12:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose Why use four words when two would do? Waggers (talk) 13:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Support Most accurate. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 13:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Support Counter-revolutionary (talk) 14:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

• Option 2 - North Channel (Irish Sea)

• Neutral. Waggers (talk) 13:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose It's not part of the Irish sea. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 13:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

• Option 3 - North Channel (North Sea)

• Support This is my second choice Bardcom (talk) 12:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Neutral. Waggers (talk) 13:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose It's not part of the North Sea. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 13:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

• Option 4 - North Channel (Scotland and Northern Ireland)

• oppose as it uses political terminology to describe a geographical feature where an alternative exists
• oppose Too wordy. Waggers (talk) 13:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• neutral Accurate, but otherwise as per, er, Bardcom? (The top comment) Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 13:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

• Option 5 - North Channel (Irish Sea and North Atlantic Ocean)

• Support This is my second choice Bardcom (talk) 12:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• oppose Too wordy. Waggers (talk) 13:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• oppose Per Waggers. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 13:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

• Option 6 - North Channel (British Isles)

• support - it says what it is, it's the status quo, and (so far) no reason has been given for why this is in any way incorrect
• oppose Not precise. Does it separate the BI from the mainland? Or from Scandinavia? Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 13:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Support Counter-revolutionary (talk) 14:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• oppose - Not precise as per Bastun Bardcom (talk) 14:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

• Option 7 - North Channel (Europe)

• neutral Concise but not as precise as British Isles. Waggers (talk) 13:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose Conveys far too little information. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 13:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose Too vague Bardcom (talk) 14:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Even though Waggers has reverted to the earlier incorrect{{cn term, he was correct in noting that (Britain and Ireland) is wrong in any case. The correct terminology should have been (Great Britain and Ireland). I'm a firm supporter of using accurate terminology where possible. The North Channel can either be described in relation to the two land masses it flows between, or can be described as linking to bodies of water. Encyclopedia Brittania opens the description with strait linking the Irish Sea with the North Atlantic Ocean, so that lends some weight to option 5. I propose to close the poll in 3 days - Sunday 30th March. Bardcom (talk) 12:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The only other article with the name North Channel relates to Canada (although the dab page also links to the Canal du Nord. Therefore, if North Channel (British Isles) is unacceptable as a form of disambiguation (and so far no reason has been put forward to support that notion), North Channel (Europe) is also available. Note that nowhere in the naming conventions or disambiguation guidelines is any mention made of needing to specify which land masses, or other bodies of water, a channel runs between. This idea is not in keeping with the rest of the project and is, frankly, more than a little strange. Waggers (talk) 13:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Comment As a point of fact on Waggers opinion, the other article refers to Ontario, not Canada, and it refers to a channel of water that flows along the Ontario coastline. You make some vague accusations about "not in keeping with the rest of the project" and "more than a little strange" - care to explain? Bardcom (talk) 14:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Does North Channel (Ontario) separate Ontario from the rest of Canada, or from anywhere else? No, that North Channel is within Ontario, just like this North Channel within the British Isles; it's perfectly accurate, and maintains consistency across Wikipedia. Waggers (talk) 14:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

It's as correct as saying (Europe). (GB & I) is more precise. Bardcom (talk) 14:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Surely "British Isles" is just as precise as "Ontario". Why this attempt to fix something that isn't broken? Waggers (talk) 15:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

To be more precise than Ontario, what term could you use? There is no further precise term available. I would equate the preciseness of (Ontario) with (GB & I), and the (less exact) preciseness of (BI) with (Canada). Just my 2c. Bardcom (talk) 15:38, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Ontario covers an area of 1,076,395 km² yet the British Isles cover only 315,134 km², and you think "Ontario" is a more precise location term than "British Isles"? I don't see how that works. Waggers (talk) 09:01, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bardcom and the British Isles

I wouldn't even want to count the number of pages where Bardcom has deleted or replaced the word British Isles. This is ridiculous.

[edit] Swapping order of Irish and Scottish Gaelic

An editor swapped the order of these terms in the lead paragraph. Is there a reason behind this edit? Please explain. --Bardcom (talk) 09:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)