Talk:North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball

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The current College Basketball Collaboration of the Month is North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball .
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Contents

[edit] Introductory Paragraph

The intro needs a major re-working, especially the first line, "The University of North Carolina's basketball program is one of the more famous college teams in the nation". Agreed? Orlière 01:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that's a comma. It says, "The University of North Carolina's basketball program is one of the more famous college teams in the nation, and is especially well known for its rivalry with Duke University, one of the most intense rivalries in sports." However, that isn't exactly top notch either. If you feel you can improve it, go ahead and edit it - all changes don't have to be brought up in the talk page first. --NomaderTalk 02:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've tried my hand at reworking it. Orlière 05:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

I can help you out Nomader with working on content for here. I also live in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area, so I can volunteer to take photos of UNC, the Smith Center, etc if we can't find good public domain ones. -- Daveahern 04:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Right now, there are two pictures currently on Wikipedia, both of which can be seen at the UNC-Duke Rivalry page. Good pictures, but I guess a couple more wouldn't hurt... on another note, do you happen to know what the overall ranking is for UNC all-time? I can't find it... --NomaderTalk 04:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I did some research through media guides and started putting together the team history section, along with some stats for the team. According to the UNC media guide, they've won 1883 games all time (through the end of 2006 season) - second to Kentucky. -- Daveahern 18:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Good work - I'll be adding some templates here and there with some pictures if I can conjure up any. In the meantime, keep up the good work! --NomaderTalk 21:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Helms Award

Any discussion of UNC's championships means we have to bring out the Helms Award. Does the awarding of the Helms "championship" by UNC's 1924 team (an award based on a poll that was given out in 1936) qualify UNC's 1924 team as a National Championship team? UNC claims it as one. I would argue with that. -- Daveahern 16:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that it should be listed as a seperate thing entirely, though recognized as a 'national championship', just not in the normal sense. --NomaderTalk 21:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It can be listed as a National Championship but not an NCAA National Championship. UNC's statistics officially recognize the difference.

By any interpretation, listing 1924 in the "NCAA Tournament Championships" box to right is certainly incorrect.

[edit] Men and Women's Team

Should this page be renamed North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball or should it include information on the women's program as well? Remember 21:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

We're having a discussion in the WikiProject here - feel free to weigh in your opinion. For now, we're focusing on the men's team only, but that might change soon. --NomaderTalk 21:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Interlocking NC Blue.gif

Image:Interlocking NC Blue.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:00, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources for article

I am not sure that fansites or publications issued by a school's athletic department are valid sources. Duke53 | Talk 23:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe this logic should be applied to all college basketball articles. Or better yet, we should have an administrator intervene. I have suggested this several times to Duke53, but he keeps ignoring my requests. Ebtunc2006 (talk) 23:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Why are official publications from the school's athletic department invalid sources? Please give some example, Duke53, of a situation where a school would intentionally lie in an official document from its athletic department. If anything, school documents should be considered supreme, for they keep (and easily provide) a much larger amount of statistics than any other organization keep, including the NCAA. Alan_daniel (talk) 23:19, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Hansbrough's "retired" jersey

It seems to me that Hansbrough's number shouldn't appear in the retired jersey list as it hasn't actually been retired yet. His winning of the Sporting News Player of the Year Award means he's eligible to have his jersey retired. But it won't actually happen until the season after he leaves the university. I think the mention of his eligibility to have his jersey retired in the article is appropriate enough for now.Ncjon (talk) 20:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notable players and coaches

I've put a cleanup tag at the top of the section, since there's no apparent criteria for declaring a player "notable". And as much as I love Jackie Manuel and Ademola Okulaja, they're rather insignificant in the whole scheme of things. And I've created a subsection for retired and honored numbers - maybe we can replace the notable player section with a list of honored players? Also, it seems better to divide them into categories, like "NBA All-Stars", or "NBA head coaches", etc. Any suggestions? --Mosmof (talk) 19:38, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that there are too many players and its disorganized. I don't think you need to change the heading from "notable" to "honored." If you did that, you might miss out on some players who were notable but did pick up many awards because they were on a talent-heavy teams. I would think decent criteria for notability would be: A)Retired jerseys B)Honored jerseys C)NCAA ChampionsD)NBA All-stars E)NBA coaching/administration F)Division I college head coaching G)NBA/ABA Champions
But even those categories wouldn't catch somebody like Jim Delany Ncjon (talk) 21:24, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
As much as we'd want to avoid a vague criterion, we can have an "others" subsection for former players with notability outside of basketball - Delany and Julius Peppers would qualify, whereas Jackie Manuel or Ademola Okulaja wouldn't, since their time at Carolina is their only claim to notability. Some possibly deserving players would miss out (Rashad McCants?), but my feeling is that it's better for any Wikipedia list to be too exclusive than too inclusive. --Mosmof (talk) 21:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I think that could work. I don't think there's a way to put hard criteria on the "other" category, but you would have a place for the people who go on to do other things. Ncjon (talk) 21:48, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I would think that anybody on a national championship team would be notable as well as anybody that was notable enough in their own right to have a wikipedia page. But that's just my feelings. Remember (talk) 16:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't consider a player notable for simply being on a national championship team, but I can understand the argument. Just to be a devil's advocate, are walk-ons, the one JV callup they pick each season, and guys who otherwise weren't in the regular rotation, notable if they're on the championship team? Anyway, my feeling on notability is that for some players, their only source of notability is their association with the Carolina program, so to recognize them as a notable Carolina player would seem counterintuitive. But I can see how there could be a gray area for national champs. --Mosmof (talk) 16:35, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. I would refine my argument to say that people who were in a regular rotation on a championship team. Remember (talk) 17:01, 26 March 2008 (UTC)