Talk:North Brabant

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Based on the WikiProject Countries, I made the following template for the Dutch provinces. Any comments are welcome. Don't pay to much attention to the text, it's just taken from the current article. Jeronimo

P.S. I don't expect there to be many full articles as for the country pages, and I therefore have use the normal WikiHeadings.

I like it, but I am a little concerned that these administrative subdivision tables and headings look way too similar to the country tables and headings. In my opinion the format of the page should be different enough for a regular Wikipedia reader to know instantly if they have landed at an article on a country or a subdivision of a country. In short the format itself should give the primary piece of info in these cases: Is it a nation, or a part of a nation? Different fill colors might do the trick... Other ideas?--mav

Good point. The colour would already change a lot; we could maybe mention the words province or Netherlands somewhere in the table? Jeronimo

Major point: Take a look at WikiProject French departements. It would be good to have a similar outlook, we could then set a common standard that could also be used for other province-like entities (Belgian provinces, British counties, Italian regions...)

Minor points: The first part of 'History' should not be under this header. Should we put it above the first header, or get it under a header as 'General'. Also, I doubt whether much will be said about some of the subjects - only 'History' and 'Municipalities' seem to be sure bets to contain information for each province. Would it be better to leave the empty ones out or to keep them in? Andre Engels

The French departments page still seems to be in development as well, no real results have yet come up. But I like the idea of a common template for all such articles.
I have many different headings in the elements template, but few elements use all the headings. I think it is OK to have many headings here in this template and simply not have certain headings for Provinces that don't need them. --mav
As for the minor points: like I said, I just pasted in the text from the old article without looking, so don't worry about that. If there's nothing to say about the other topics (I think there's at least some info to give on economy (main areas of employment) and geography (natural features, map)), we should just leave them out for that article. Similarly, new headings could be added if there's something interesting. Jeronimo

I think the French departments table is a bit too limited -- there isn't a place for flags and seals for example. One of my original thoughts for the country tables was to use different fill colors for each continent the nation was located in. But then horror overtook me when I tried to figure out what colors are associated with which continents - that could have been ugly.

However, simply having a different fill color for admin subdivs would be one thing that could set those tables apart from country tables. We could possibly have all countries with the current gray fill and then have a multitude of colors for the subdivs with different colors for subdivs located in different geographic areas within a country (or just have one color for all subdivs). Jeronimo's idea of having an obvious "Province of" heading in the table would also be a great idea. Now the questions are; what color(s) and where to place the heading? --mav

I've place an additional header in the table - maybe this is something. I'm not sure whether to keep the Dutch or the English name (in the country pages, we use the local name). I don't really mind which colour it is. We could take white, but that's already the default background colour. We could even let the colour depend on the country (orange for the Netherlands); frankly, I don't care as long as the colour isn't too flashy (no fluorescent pink please (c:). Jeronimo

Since Jeronimo asked, I think it's an excellent idea, and certainly one that won't take as long as the other administrative subdivisions projects (though the eventual municipalities project will be ;)), and I'm willing to help. I'm not entirely convinced of the need of colours though. I'm the one that originally added the gray background colour and it was to distinguish between the background and flags/arms with white running to the edge. Gray is not very frequently used in flags and such. If you were to pick colours for different countries, you'd need to make sure not too many of the flags of the provinces/departments/etc. contain that colour. I would say that the current title should make it clear enough.Scipius 17:33 Sep 29, 2002 (UTC)

Talk from former /Temp page:

What shall we choose as the English name for the Commissaris van de Koningin? "Commissioner to the Queen" certainly is a very good name, but very literal. This page from the BuZa calls it "Queen's Commissioner", but I myself would like to suggest perhaps "Royal commissioner", though it may be too general a name. Then again, it would save us the trouble of changing all the references when the next King arrives. ;) Just a thought, I quite like CttQ actually. Scipius 18:57 Sep 30, 2002 (UTC)

CttQ was my first attempt, but haven't really given it any thoughts until now. Checking google, that term is only found on two (Dutch) pages, while "Queen's Commissioner" is found on approximately 300 sites (also mostly Dutch). Royal Commissioner seems good as well, but I think preserving as much of the original name as possible would be best. Jeronimo
My dictionary Dutch-English says: Queen's commissioner, but are there no people in the UK that are responsible for the province, and are related to the king/queen. But maybe royal commissioner is better after all, because then, they can be also the King's commissioner.

[edit] South Brabant

How come there's no South Brabant, the natural opposite in name of North Brabant? --Menchi 10:03, 29 Nov 2003 (UTC)

There is Brabant in Belgium. - Patrick 19:55, 29 Nov 2003 (UTC)
To make things more complicated: Noord-Brabant is divided in three parts: West Brabant (Breda/Roosendaal/Bergen op Zoom), Midden-Brabant (Tilburg/Den Bosch) and Oost-Brabant (Eindhoven/Helmond). - cwm_avontuur
As a Bosschenaar myself, I'd like to emphasize that we in 's-Hertogenbosch do not consider ourselves part of "Middenbrabant", but of Oostbrabant — and indeed we don't believe in the very concept of a "Middenbrabant".--MWAK 30 June 2005 13:27 (UTC)
Actually I believe - to make it even a bit more confusing - you have to make a distinction within Oost-Brabant itself. As an Eindhovenaar I consider myself part of Zuidoost-Brabant, not of Oost-Brabant on a whole (which would also include, for example, towns like Cuijk and even Oss). I always thought the proper distinctions within Noord-Brabant were West-Brabant (around Roosendaal, Bergen op Zoom, Breda), Midden-Brabant (Tilburg, Oisterwijk), de Meijerij ('s Hertogenbosch, Oss) and Zuidoost-Brabant/De Kempen (Eindhoven, Helmond).
Anyway, to answer the initial question: there is something called Brabant in Belgium. Noord-Brabant, along with the provinces of Brabant and Antwerp in Belgium, were once part of a larger duchy. Rick86 21:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
In the 19th century Belgium and The Netherlands were one country. The region around Antwerpen was called South-Brabant, and the region around Breda, Tilburg etc. was called North-Brabant. When The Netherlands split up in Belgium and the Netherlands, North-Brabant kept the same name, but the Belgian people thought: We don't have a north-brabant anymore, and they changed it into Brabant. Amelie poulain, 11:19, 30 june 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Amelie. There's something I didn't know. I'm going to do a more thorough review of history (partly for my own interests). If I find some more useful information - I'll add it in or present for discussion. AlanBarnet 05:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Culture

Though possibly ranging into the somewhat insignificant, it can be said that the culture and general mentality in Brabant, more specifically the area identified as "beneat the rivers", that area which has mostly remained catholic due to the fact that it was not part of the Union of Utrecht is quite different when compared to the rest of the country, if only due to the fact that the religion is entirely different. Generally, southern Dutch people, especially in more rural areas, are identified as "Burgundians", which is basically a name given to people with a relatively lavish lifestyle. This can be justified by the fact that the Duchy of Brabant was part of the House of Burgundy. --213.84.161.16 21:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

But then Holland was a part of the Burgundian Netherlands also. I agree there are clear differences in mentality, but these cannot be easily equated to differences in religion or lifestyle.--MWAK 07:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)