Talk:Norsemen

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Not a bad start user:vikings but this article is far too POV at the moment.Unfortunately you need to temper you passion a little and try to stick to cold hard facts. Everything you state should be backed up by evidence, and you should write your article as if you were writing about people whome you neither particuly like or dislike. Hope this helps Theresa knott 14:55 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

thank you, Theresa, we are learning - we are happy to see that much more survived editorship than the last time we tried Vikings 16:31 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I don't know what a major part of this article tries to say. Stuff that is truley "subjective" belongs on the discussion side, so I past it in below. // Rogper 22:41, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

In the year 1005 they sailed to America. They were never much interested in becoming the ruling force. The structure was patriarcatic, but they had a high respect of women and idolize or honoured the elderly. Many females had high positions and were very influential (Freydis - see Norse Saga). They were interested in good education.

On a Norse ship ("viking ship"), there was one captain (chief), elected from the crew: the strongest, smartest, wisest, once wildest, with lots of experience, lots of friends and political supporters, with fame on many oceans and shores, with all authority. In moments of danger and in battle he made the decisions and strategy, all crew followed without any questioning. In times of peace they stood in the back. All younger warriors were allowed to challenge and question the chief in the time between wars. All trusted him and he backed all to the outside.

If the majority of the crew asks him to step down he does so and falls back to the role as advisor and teacher.

Many companies of modern Norse countries are operated in the same way as the wooden ships, and some world-leading businesses evolved (Nokia, IKEA, Ericsson, Maersk) - again influencing, navigating, moving, communicating and educating on global scales.

For more information see viking.

[edit] Proposal to move to "Norseman"

In keeping with the naming conventions for articles, I'd like to propose through the Wikipedia:Requested moves process that this article be moved to "Norseman" and that it be converted to a redirect. The relevant Wikipedia Policy is Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals). Thanks for considering this for discussion. I'll not nominate for moving until some time/input has passed here. Courtland 11:59, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

  • I'm not going to do this proposal as I think it is probably best as it stands .. one would more frequently refer to the group of Norsemen rather than a single Norseman. Courtland 04:29, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
  • I fully support the creation of a redirect, but I think the two articles should be reworded (so they do not have so much overlap) and then merged (at the very least to acknowledge "Norsemen" within the article as a seperate term). It seems better to have one comprehensive article rather than two smaller articles, especially since Norsemen and Northmen are generally considered interchangeable. Markovich292 21:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] See also

whatever

[edit] Can

Can we change the name of the article?100110100 11:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources?

is there any source for Vikings has been a common term for norsemen in the early medieval period, especially in connection with raids and monastic plundering made by norsemen in Great Britain and Ireland.

What I refer to specifically is Vikings has been a common term for norsemen.

I belive there is not one single source, in the early medieval period, using the term viking as a common term for norse, so this statement should be removed.

Dan Koehl 03:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Dan Koehl, the cited sentence above is somewhat misleading. The term "Viking" should be referred however, since it (regrettably, IMO) is the most popular term in modern usage. Proposal for rephrasing:
Since the 18th Century "Vikings" has been in popular use as a term for norsemen in the early medieval period, especially in connection with raids and monastic plundering made by norsemen in Great Britain and Ireland.
See also Etymology of Viking.
P.S. Spellingcheck most welcome ;-) Finnrind 23:30, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I dont agree with you.

Even if its popular to call all nortern people during vikinga age vikings, today by common people, its wrong.

If Wikipedia would state in articles populair beliefs, rather than prooven facts, it would not be a quality encyclopedia.

Here below I show several sources that does not support this "populair" view.

It seems like the english speaking encyclopedias in early 1900 were well defined on the word viking:

[edit] Websters (1903) definition:

Viking \Vi"king\, n. [Icel. v[imac]kingr, fr. v[imac]k a bay, inlet.] One belonging to the pirate crews from among the Northmen, who plundered the coasts of Europe in the eighth, ninth, and tenth centuries. [1913 Webster]

further on:

Note: Viking differs in meaning from sea king, with which it is frequently confounded. "The sea king was a man connected with a royal race, either of the small kings of the country, or of the Haarfager family, and who, by right, received the title of king as soon he took the command of men, although only of a single ship's crew, and without having any land or kingdom . . . Vikings were merely pirates, alternately peasants and pirates, deriving the name of viking from the vicks, wicks, or inlets, on the coast in which they harbored with their long ships or rowing galleys." --Laing. [1913 Webster]

[edit] Brewer's Dictionary:

Viking A pirate. So called from the vik or creek in which he lurked. The word is wholly unconnected with the word "king." There were sea-kings, sometimes, but erroneously, called "vikings," connected with royal blood, and having small dominions on the coast. These sea-kings were often vikingr or vikings, but the reverse is not true that every viking or pirate was a sea-king. (Icelandic vikingr, a pirate.).

source

[edit] WordNet 1.7.1 Copyright © 2001 by Princeton University:

Any of the Scandinavian people who raided the coasts of Europe from the 8th to the 11th centuries.

[edit] Viking Age England" by Julian D. Richards, published in 2000 (pages 10-11):

Contemporary chroniclers called the raiders by many names, including heathens and pagans, as well as Northmen and Danes, but one of the names used to refer to them by the English was `Viking', and this is now used to describe not only the raiders, but also the period during which they carried out their attacks. These centuries, from the ninth to the eleventh, have become known, therefore, as the Viking Age. [...] In the icelandic sagas, víkingr came to be used as a noun to refer to a warrior, or pirate, víking was used to refer to an expedition. The majority of Scandinavians, therefore, were not Vikings; only those who went a-viking could really qualify for the description.

I therefore ask for written sources that viking was used as a term for norsemen in the history

Im pretty sure this is a misunderstanding, and todays habits are only some 20-30 years.


Dan Koehl 06:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I disagree that we disagree, that is, (I think) I agree with you but I don't seem to have explained myself very well.
  1. I agree with the definitions above, using viking as another term for norsemen is wrong
  2. In the medieval sources I have studied, i.e. Irish annals, never uses the term Vikings. The monastic raiders are generally referred to as Gall (strangers) og Gennti (pagans), later also Gall-gaidel, understood as equivalent of [Norse-gaels]] (It is assumed that Gall in these sources always refer to people of norse origin.
I do not have the time to dig up references of when the term viking started being used in the general way it is used today, but that is not my point either. If it so pleases the good editors, I only want the article about norsemen to clarify that viking is not another word for norse, which I take it is Koehls interrest here too...? New Proposal for rephrasing:
The term "Vikings" is popularly used as a term for Scandinavians in general and norse settlers in Gerat Britain and Ireland in particular. In its original contaxt Viking denotes pirates, and should be used for norsemen only in connection with raids and monastic plundering made by them in Great Britain and Ireland.
If you still disagree, please give an alternative suggestion for what the wording of the article should be. Finnrind 10:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

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