Talk:Norn language

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[edit] matthew

Here is a version of Matthew 6:9-13 in Modern Faroese from 1961 (after Jacob Dahl and Kristian Osvald Viderø), but maybe the older one is better in the article...

Faðir vár, tú sum ert í himlunum! Heilagt verði navn títt;
komi ríki títt, verði vilji tín
sum í himli so á jørð;
gev okkum í dag okkara dagliga breyð;
og fyrigev okkum skuldir okkara,
so sum vit fyrigeva skuldarum okkara;
og leið okkum ikki í freistingar; men frels okkum frá tí illa.
Source: http://www.bibelselskabet.dk/farbib/web/matt/6b.htm

Arne List 12:02, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] efforts to revive norn?

Are there any reports of efforts to revive Norn? With the succesful revivals of Manx and Cornish in mind, and recent attemps to revive even Cumbrian, I can hardly believe no one yet has tried to revive Norn as well.--Caesarion 13:20, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I am interested in in Old Germanic languages, but I have never heard of Norn before (may be because of the extinction of the langauge without any continuence.

There is this one -> http://www.shetlink.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2316&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Dylansmrjones (talk) 15:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] further texts?

Are there any further texts availabe in Norn on-line?

Laurentius


[edit] Ceded

"After the islands were ceded to the Kingdom of Scotland in the 15th century". Ceded by Denmark I presume. Laurel Bush 11:01, 31 May 2005 (UTC).

No, they were Norwegian possessions and pawned to Scotland by the king of Norway. The confusion has arisen because at the time the king of Denmark was also the king of Norway (see Kalmar Union). -- Nidator T / C 14:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Cheers. I believe now however that they were anexed by but never officially ceded to Scotland. Laurel Bush (talk) 11:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC).
Yes, they were not ceded. The king of Norway, Christian I, "pawned" the islands to the king of Scotland as security for dowry payments towards his daughter Margaret's marriage to the very same king of Scotland. The Scottish/British position is that they were annexed some time later, but I understand that this is a touchy issue in the islands. -- Nidator T / C 14:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Last speaker

This story says, of an inhabitant of Skaw, "A former resident, Walter Sutherland, was reputedly the last man to speak Norn, the archaic Scandinavian language.". How much credence should we give this? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:08, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

Very little, judging from Barnes' The Norn language of Orkney and Shetland. At best, there might've been some older speakers of Scots with plenty of Norn vocabulary and grammar in the 1840s, but not anything that could be considered proper Norn.
Peter Isotalo 21:32, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Devoicing? =

Quoth the article:

This includes a devoicing of /p, t, k/ to /b, d, g/ before or between vowels

Does this mean "a voicing of" , or "of /b d g/ to /p t k/"? I expect the former is more likely, but wish to confirm. —Felix the Cassowary (ɑe hɪː jɐ) 13:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] trying to learn more about norn

i've being studying the germanic peoples, cultures, and languages for several years now, but finding information on norn has been rather frustrating. Gringo300 04:09, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Phonology + originally Scottish lands?

"This includes a voicing of /b, d, g/ to /p, t, k/ before or between vowels..."

Shouldn't this be the other way round? When /p t k/ change to /b d g/ they are 1) softened and 2) voiced. This found in Danish, Scanian, southernmost Norway ('soft coastal strip') and southern Iceland (including Reykjavík).

Secondly, it could better be called softening as these sounds in some languages (e.g. Standard Danish and Icelandic) developed further and lost their voicing but are still soft. In Norwegian and Swedish /b d g/ are often described as semi-voiced. In most, maybe all Germanic languages voicing of /b d g/ is less energetic than in the Romance, Slavic and other languages. Thus, softening is the more important feature.

"After the islands were returned to Scotland by Norway in the 15th century..."

That the islands were in fact originally Scottish is an interesting fact I never heard of though I do know Orkney was inhabited by picts. Scandinavian history usually makes more of a point of the Norse ancestry. (I am a Dane.) Need to see what the main Shetland and Orkney articles say about this. --213.237.69.51 03:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Norse or Norn

3rd § : "Norse." Isn't this a mistake instead of "Norn" ? 213.56.242.237 07:31, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

If you read the full paragraph, you'll find that the classification of these mainland variants as 'Norn' is disputed. I assume that dialects of Norse should be interpreted roughly as spoken variants, derived from Old Norse, and like other western such spoken forms (outside Island, where the development was rather more conservative) to some extent developing in parallel with mainland variants, which today are classified as dialects of Norse. (It is often a trouble to decide what is a dialect and what is a separate language.) Therefore, I think the present formulation is quite OK. JoergenB 10:15, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] When did Norn become Norn?

Is there any period in which it can be said to have ceased to be Old Norse, and become Norn? --MacRusgail 23:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

That is a good question, and I have been wondering about that myself. I imagine that there was a fuzzy line between being just another Norwegian dialect and a separate language, and it really is a matter of definition. As I understand it the word "norrœnn" (Old Norwegian, etc.) is the origin for both "norn" (norrœnn ... norn) and the Modern Norwegian "norsk" (norrœnn -> nornskr -> norsk). -- Nidator T / C 18:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)