Talk:Nishiki rice

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This article was nominated for deletion on 1 January. The result of the discussion was close for now, and if necessary, re-open discussion.

This article has gone through some drastic revision, but it is unfortunately almost completely wrong now. "Nishiki rice" is a brand, as easily seen from looking at the registration mark on any bag of it. It is sold by JFC. Some kinds of rice have "Nishiki" in their name, e.g. yamada nishiki, but they are not called "nishiki rice". So in other words, there is no such thing as "nishiki rice sake" or "nishiki sake". There is "Yamada nishiki sake", etc.

The source for all these errors, which build on top of each other, seems to be one reference, which defines "nishiki rice". It is incorrect. The only "nishiki rice" per se is the kind that comes in the distinctive bag which is pictured in several of the links.

Korean and Japanese do not eat nishiki rice as a "side dish". Rice is the main dish of a Korean or Japanese meal. The website which says this is confused.

The sentence on "sticky rice" is weird. The sense used in the linked discussion forum is that of rice that is stickier than types such as basmati. So any shorter-grain rice, when cooked properly, will be "sticky". The stickiness is just a characteristic. One technical sense in which sticky rice does refer to something specific, is when it is used to refer to glutinous rice, like the kind used to make mochi. But that is not what the people in that forum are discussing.

I hope this is useful. I will make the changes when I have time. --C S (talk) 08:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

The research I found showed that Nishiki is a whole group of strains of rice. some are used for sake, some are eaten. It may be a brand name, but the article would be better served if it focused on the strain first, and the brand second. This guarantees notability as it is a strain of rice. My edits, obviously, could use more work. It was the best I could do in a rush. Oh, and the side dish, there is an actual citation calling it a side dish, which in American terms (the cite is American) means that there is some meat (main) and rice (side). That can probably be corrected to reflect that the rice is a staple, it is just a difference of what we call things. Corn is a staple in the US, as is wheat, but we still call them side dishes. Again, just a difference in how the phrase is used and should be easy to fix to reflect this. Pharmboy (talk) 14:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

The quick search for categories came up with a number of articles on various varieties of rice. Although a particular product brand may in some cases be notable as an encyclopedia article, I think the article would be better if it focused on a variety of rice, it's agricultural significance, cultural history, culinary uses, etc. rather than having a particular brand be the focus of the article. - Michael J Swassing (talk) 15:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

By the "research I found" I believe you mean the webpage [1], which is not very convincing as it is not well-written. Do you have any other sources? I can understand why some people may think that because some of the Japanese names have "Nishiki" in it, that there is a whole group of strains of rice called "Nishiki", but that is not true.

Regarding the side dish issue, I'm afraid you're still not understanding. No doubt the webpage cited is using the term in the way you are. But it is still wrong. As someone very familiar with the "typical" American cuisine also, I knew the definition of "side dish" you mentioned. And rice is definitely not considered a side dish in that sense in Japanese or Korean cuisine.

Rice is more than just a staple, like corn is a staple. Rice is actually the main dish. For example, in the Korean language, when you ask someone if they've eaten, you ask if they have eaten rice. When you ask people if they want to eat, you say "let's eat rice". In Japanese, the word for rice also means meal. It is also part of other words, such as the word for breakfast. A meal in Korea or Japan may consist only of rice with some things added to it, like various picked dishes, natto, piece of fish, etc. Even when there is a large plate of meat, it is eaten with the rice, and the rice is still considered the "main" food. So you can't really frame the eating habits of non-Westerners into a Western setting and have things correspond precisely. When this correspondence is attempted, it leads to mistakes. In other words, you can't relabel some things main dish and some side dish. There is no such easy relabeling. The styles of eating are just different. --C S (talk) 23:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

fine, then make the edits, but don't bite the hands of people trying to *help*. Pharmboy (talk) 02:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Uh, where did I bite? I simply pointed out the errors. I did say in response in my talk page that I appreciate your work. I only want to hammer this out on the talk page to make sure we are all on the same page. --C S (talk) 03:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Short or medium grain? Whenever I've bought this kind of rice or seen it referred to it's been described as "medium-grain". The article says short-grain. Sci girl (talk) 00:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The citations I found said short grain. Pharmboy (talk) 02:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

If you believe "nishiki" refers to a family of varieties used to make sake, then it would be short-grained, as that is the kind best for sake. If you are referring to the Nishiki brand of rice, commonly available in the US, is is a medium-grain. --C S (talk) 02:56, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm willing to admit that I am confused, and will discontinue editing this article. I was trying to be helpful with some categories, but perhaps they are not the best categories for the subject of this article. In general, I am skeptical about a particular brand of product being the best means of defining the scope of an article. I'm vaguely familiar with some of the environmental issues involved with rice as a crop in California. But if the article is about a brand of rice and not a variety of rice ... I'll wait to see where this is going. By the way, what variety of rice is Nishiki Rice? - Michael J Swassing (talk) 02:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Nishiki rice is the most commonly found japonica rice in the US and is sold in regular supermarkets. So I find it strange that notability could even be an issue. --C S (talk) 02:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Nishiki Rice is a group of varieties, from what the citations say. Pharmboy (talk) 02:32, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. What citations? I see only one that supports it, and it's written in a slapped-together fashion. All your other citations refer to names such as "Yamada nishiki". I even checked with a Japanese friend knowledgable about sake making. He confirmed there is no "group of varieties" called Nishiki, only ones which may have "nishiki" in their names. By the way, it may help to know that "nishiki" is a word like "premier" that is often added to products. Literally it means silk, but is often used to make something seem more rich or finer quality. --C S (talk) 02:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Then I guess you should just fix it. I am no rice expert, I was just trying to assist in establishing notability to prevent an unnecessary AFD. I will leave the editing to you then. Pharmboy (talk) 03:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)