Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity

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Notice This page is for arguments over Tesla's ethnicity and nationality. Previous discussions have been archived from the main talk page, which is now reserved for editorial discussions. This is not a repository for Serb/Croat comments violating WP:NPA: those will simply be removed.

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[edit] Comment1

The Croatian PM himself said that Tesla was a Serb who was born in Croatia. This happened at some kind of anniversary in Smiljan last summer. He said it loud and clear, and it was broadcast everywhere.

[edit] Inaugural dispute

Why not listen to what Tesla says/wants to be himself, and end all nationalist fights there?

He said this on 1 June 1892 in Belgrade:

"In me there is something that can be deceiving as well, as it is often with young overjoyed people, but if I am lucky to realize at least some of my ideals, that would be good for the entire humankind. If those my hopes become reality, the sweatiest thought will be that this all was the work of a Serb. Long live Serbdom!"

And after that day he said to the students of the Belgrade Big School, just before he went to meet with King of Serbia Aleksandar Obrenović:

"I have as you see and hear remained a Serb even offshore, where I am conducting research. That same should you be and with your knowledge and work raise the glory of Serbdom in the world.

Tesla in the west kept always with him The Mountain Wreath of Petar II Petrović-Njegoš, and the numerous songs of Vojislav Ilić, Jovan Jovanović Zmaj and Đura Jakšić. In May of 1894 in the Century Magazine he wrote an article about Zmaj, about the suffers of Tesla's people on Kosovo and the tragedies faced ever since the Battle of Amsfeld and ends with "from that fatal battle all the way to the most recent time, for the Serbs there is a dark darkness, with only one star in the sky - Montenegro".

So just leave it to there, lol. --PaxEquilibrium 09:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Where’s the source of this alleged statement by Tesla? A reliable English-language one, I mean. And we must remember too that at the time (and today, somehow) the concepts of “Serbian” and “Croatian” were intermixed (see this map of peoples in the Balkans/Middle East). So there’s no statement of Tesla saying anything against Croatia or say that he wasn’t Croatian, for example.
And finally, this dichotomy Serbian/Serb, Croatian/Croat, Bosnian/Bosniak is very religious-based and, may I say, very folkish-regigious, very non-Secularist and very un-Western at all.--MaGioZal 11:43, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
So what?! Are we all supposed to even name ourselves the way Western world is used to? If you don't like it, mind your own Western business. :( This is not an insult, by the way. You just can't say: That silly names you're using are so non-Western, and you ought to change them so that they become Western-alike... Please respect someone else's culture, even if it is very religious-based and non-secularist. --George D. Božović 14:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

==The irony will not be lost on this reader that croats are fighting for one serb born in Krajina to be considered a croatian citizen.There is still hope then for return for the 300'000 "croats" born in Krajina to come back one day to their "homeland"...

Ethnicity is one thing, religious affiliation (or certificate of baptism) is another==

What many people from former Yugoslavia can’t see is that an ethnicity or race of a person cannot be determined solely on religion. I’ve always thought that the denominations “Croat”, “Serb” and “Bosniak” are just tools to (try to) justify what happened during the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s. As a secularist, believe much more in Croatians, Serbians and Bosnians that speak the same Serbo-Croatian language than anything else. The rest it’s just ignorance, obscurantism, religious intolerance and propaganda at the service of corrupt politicians.

Telsa died many decades before all these tragedies happened in the poor and sad Balkans. And by the time of his birth he was born outside Serbia, and was an Austrian citizen from Dalmatia who was baptized Orthodox but wasn’t religious nor Serbian nationalist. And the concepts of Serbo-Croatian, Serbian or Croatian languages were still being developed during the 19th century — the official language of Austrian Empire was German.

So, to call Tesla and “ethnic Serb” sounds very bad to the ear. It should be better to define Tesla as an Austrian-Croatian, Yugoslav or simply Serbo-Croatian, I.M.H.O..--MaGioZal 19:34, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Tesla himself said that he is ethnic Serb, so who are you to dispute his words. Here are words of Nikola Tesla: "I am equally proud on my Serb origin and my Croatian homeland". PANONIAN (talk) 20:17, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, it’s impossible to me to dispute words with Tesla, because he’s dead. And if Tesla said “I am equally proud on my Serb origin and my Croatian homeland”, the conclusion is that he can be called a Croatian Serb or Serbo-Croatian.--MaGioZal 02:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
No. The best description would be "Serb from Croatia" ("Srbin iz Hrvatske" in native Serbo-Croatian language). "Croatian Serb" (translated into Serbo-Croatian as "Hrvatski Srbin") is rather English (incorrect) construction that is very rarely used (if used at all) in native language of Nikola Tesla. PANONIAN (talk) 19:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
But this is the English edition Wikipedia, and in English Language Croatian Serb is a clear and valid term (just browse through English-based media — Google News is a good souce). Even Serbian B92website use it in their English-language pages.
It seems like Serb Radical nationalists wants to mislead, hide and conceal the fact that Telsa was born in Croatian territory and he, although a son of a Serbian Orthodox cleric, was also proud to be Croatian.--MaGioZal 19:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, this is English Wikipedia and as such it should use "correct English terms" ("Serb from Croatia"), not incorrect ones ("Croatian Serbs"), as I already explained. No matter if it is used in some media, "Croatian Serb" is not best term and it is also misleading. The fact that Tesla himself spoke about "his Croatian homeland" refer to later time of his life when this area was part of Croatia, but in the time when Tesla was born, the area was not part of Croatia. And who exactly is "Serb Radical nationalist" about whom you speak here? PANONIAN (talk) 20:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
And he was not "proud to be Croatian" as you said, but proud on "his Croatian homeland" - there is very big difference between those sentences. PANONIAN (talk) 20:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

MaGioZal, please read through the loads of previous discussion on this issue on the talk page. You've came here and unilaterally started making edits against the previous established consensus. Take some time to review the previous discussions and consensus instead of just edit warring to "your" version. // laughing man 20:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Mmmm… consensus? Or the consensus of the Serb Radical nationalist editors who, using their numeric advantage, aggressive editing-reverting and personal pressure, made the article suitable to their interests? This just not happens here, it happens in many other articles in English Wikipedia related to Yugoslavia and their sucessors. It seems like they, frustrated for being ignored by the Western World Mass Media, want to make Wikipedia their para-political stage, IMHO.--MaGioZal 21:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Is this guy for real? :) --Methodius 22:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Apparently you're a Serb radical and nationalist if you think that Tesla was a Serb. :) --Krytan 23:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
No, but if you clearly wants to completely cover up de fact that Telsa was Croatian indicates many stuff….--MaGioZal 00:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
1. Nikola Tesla was very deeply (OK, maybe not very) religious; he was supposed to be an Orthodox Priest
2. He was a Serbian nationalist (but a positive one, often misinterpreted due to modern Balkan nationalisms that tore apart Yugoslavia)
3. I simply cannot understand when some people claim about people, when they don't know nearly anything about them. If one reads Tesla's autobiography (which I own for example), using MaGioZal's logic I would at once call Tesla a Greater Serb Radical ultranationalist. :0))) For example; one of the most frequent things Nikola Tesla said was that when he looked behind to his life's achievements, he was completely amazed and utterly please that all those things were the works of a Serb. Perhaps he was a member of the SRS too... I don't know, are You sure he was not at the Hague? :D --PaxEquilibrium 00:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
1. Where is the sources of your allegations that Tesla was “very deeply religious” or “supposed to be an Orthodox Priest”? Generally most scientists are not religious (atheists and agnostics nowadays are very common in the scientific community, for example).
In Tesla himself. He comes from a deeply religious Orthodox Serb family (his father an Orthodox Priest himself, a Church existed before the Croatian paramilitaries raised it in the most recent war). He didn't want to be a mere Priest, he wanted more - that's why he went into conflict (originally) with his pa. He wrote that in his autobiography (you should already know this...). He was religious (I remember the article connecting the lightning and God.. philosophically ;). Yeah, it's common, but remember that Nikola Tesla was a Serb nationalist. --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
2. Where is the sources of your allegations that Tesla was “Serb nationalist”? (Please cite at least one in English — and not from Project Rastko — since I don’t understand Serbo-Croatian language)
Sources are - in Tesla. You'll actually have to know something regarding Tesla to debate here, pal. ;) Btw, for the nth time, read his autobiography. --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
3. I would never say that Tesla was a “Radical Serb Nationalist” since I never knew anything related to that, just because his family was from Serbian Orthodox Church. And he was born, lived and died decades before the tragic Serbian-Radical adventures of the Yugoslav Wars and the now dead Republic of Serbian Krajina.--MaGioZal 11:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
The Radical Party existed back then... ;) Oh and you just said that for several Wikipedian users, who're not members of SRS neither are even (Serbian) nationalists. --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
4. And to finalize, I would like to say that the notions of “ethnicity” and “nationality” in the former Yugoslav lands are quite different from the Western World notions in general and The Americas notions in particular. In these regions, the “ethnicity” and “nationality” are defined much more in a territorial (see jus soli) and mother language basis than religious or other folkish affiliations. In USA and in my country Brazil, it doesn’t matter if you’re Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Atheist or descendant of Polish, Italian, German, Native American, African or whatever — if you are born in the country and speaks the main language of the country, you’re considered a full national citizen of that country with no restrictions, period.
And the Western World does not have the "final wor(l)d" (heh) just because Tesla spent a lot of time there. :) And what do you propose for the final solution then, Austro-Hungarian American scientist? :) --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
5. All these discussions about Tesla’s nationality remembers me much the same thing that happened with Nicolaus Copernicus: he was born, lived and died many years before the creation of the nation-states of Germany and Poland, but because of the many wars fought by Poles and Germans until 1945 the nationality of the Astronomer was a matter of dispute between these two countries.--MaGioZal 11:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Nothing similar. Copernicus comes from a mixed marriage (and Germanics and Slavs are two different races - the lack of German and Polish nations [however you see it] makes no importance). As it's said, "transnational" Ost-Slavic-German. Tesla was neither of the two. He's a Serb and a globalist. --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TESLA IS NOT AN SERBIAN

If Tesla is not serbianm then all croats born in Bosnia are not croats! They are bosnians. Go tell them that!And good luck by the way

'SHAME ON YOU!!!' You are supposed to be the greatest encyclopedia but you have written that Nikola Tesla was a Serbian. So, I'll tell (AND TRY TO TEACH YOU!?) you something about Tesla. He was born in place called Smiljan wich is in CROATIA and was back then, and he lived there, only thing that relates him to Serbia are his parents who were Serbians LIVING also in Croatia. So, I suppose that some of you have parents wich are from a different state, but, do you feel that you are from there too? Tesla himself was allways saying that he honours his origins, but his country and home was only CROATIA. So, please, try to change that becouse it offends Croatian people wich wellcomed his parents and whos land gaved life to Tesla. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.55.17 (talk • contribs)

Its’s interesting thing is that the comment above was made from someone whose IP came from a Zagreb ISP, while the other IP that deleted the same comment came from a Belgrade ISP. It seems like that though the Serbian-Croatian War ended in 1995, the war goes on and on forever here in Wikipedia… anyway, I generally agree with the Zagreb anonymous guy.--MaGioZal 14:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I think you mean "depressing" rather than "interesting". Nationalist disputes make up some of the more tedious lame edit wars on Wikipedia. Chris Cunningham 14:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Let me teach you something. Tesla's parents were not from Serbia. They were born and lived and died there, in the Military Frontier region of Austria-Hungary. And they were Serbs by ethnicity, just like Tesla was. (Let me cite one other user from Wikipedia: "If your parents were Croats you can't be a chiuaua!" Same goes for Serbs.) Moreover, in the time when Tesla was born, Smiljan and the entire Military Frontier was not part of Croatia! It was under the direct jurisdiction of the Austrian court. Tesla's birthplace is only part of Croatia now. He was not a Croat (as we was a Serb and so were his parents), and he was not a Croatian either (as he wasn't born and didn't live in Croatia). Now, is that clear? >:( (And I am not surprised that pointing Tesla's Serbian ethnicity "offends Croatian people". That statement is fully racist and fascist and totally not appropriate.) --Djordje D. Božović 17:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but I think you have nothing to tech me.
Let’s analyze your claims:
Let me cite one other user from Wikipedia: "If your parents were Croats you can't be a chiuaua!" Same goes for Serbs.
Sorry, but this is just a monolithic concept of ethnicity that doesn’t fit the reality. Is easy trick to compare different ethnicities with differences, but in fact human migrations and intermarriage are things that was always common in humanity, and more and more today. And as I said above, one of the few places in the Europe where religions equals with “ethnicity” is on former Yugoslavia. And even in this way, before the Yugoslav Wars (and most specifically Bosnian War ) the intermarriage between Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim Yugoslavs (or Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks) were quite common.
And above any consideration about “ethnicity” and “nationality”, mixed race and multi-ethnic persons does exist (and let’s remember that there’s multiple citizenship, syncretism, and religious conversions alll around the world, too). The idea that “ethnicities cannot mix” reminds me of bad things like Madison Grant’s One-drop theory, ethnic cleansing, genocide and… nazi-fascism.
Moreover, in the time when Tesla was born, Smiljan and the entire Military Frontier was not part of Croatia! It was under the direct jurisdiction of the Austrian court.
Before the Compromise of 1867 after Austrian-Prussian War, all the territory of the Austrian Empire were in one way or another under direct control of the Austrian government in Vienna. And let me show this map of the Balkans at the year that Tesla was born. As you can see on it, and in many other maps of Perry-Castañeda_Library_Map_Collection, the area where the scientist was born was called in the maps “Croatia”, even when it was located in the Military Frontier. And at that time, the portion of Austrian-administered territory around Gospic was called Kroatische Militärgrenze, since at that time there was Slavonia, Dalmatia and Croatia proper provinces in the Austrian Empire, each one with their respective Military Frontier region.
And the fact is that the region where Tesla was born is part of the historical Croatian lands many centuries before, since the end of Middle Ages through Austrian Empire through First Yugoslavia (Banovina of Croatia), Second Yugoslavia (S.F.R. Croatia) and the modern-day Croatia — the only time that the region was a “Serb state” was during less than four years, in the infamous and illegal Milosevic-supported Republic of Serb Krajina.
I don’t know if the radical Serb nationalists that are here in Wikipedia were affected or not or fighted during the Yugoslav Wars (well, I don’t!…;-)), but the fact is that Smiljan were and is Croatian. And Tesla, though somehow affiliated to the Serb Orthodox Church, was Croatian. And there’s no contradiction or impossibility in this fact.--MaGioZal 19:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
You could also say that Tesla was born in a "Serb state" - the Military Frontier. ;) And in the end, what precisely do you want - to be named by his home country? Why don't you then just propose "Austro-Hungarian American scientist"? ;) And no, Smiljan wasn't Croatian, nor was Tesla Croatian according to your own logic - they were Austro-Hungarian. --PaxEquilibrium 00:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
You seem to be missing the point. The only way Tesla could be considered Croatian would be by nationality. But Croatia was not a nation at the time of his birth. Story over. If you want to get technical, Serbia didn't exist as a nation then either: he was Austrian by nationality as a subject of the Austrian Empire. GlassFET 20:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm getting a little worn out by Serbian and Croat nationalist teachers. The article lead is accurate. Simões (talk/contribs) 18:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the lead is accurate, though it makes me wish that Serbo-Croatian were an ethnic designator and not just a language. Bah! GlassFET 19:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Let's just clear one thing out. When the Serb-populated Military Frontier was created, it was excerpted from the territory of the former Kingdom of Croatia. So, Smiljan was not within Croatia at that time. And Tesla was not only "somehow affiliated to the Serbian Orthodox Church" - he was simply a Serb himself. By ethnicity, by religion, by ancestry... It seems that it would be much easier if he was a Vietnamese than a Serb. Is this Serbophobia of what? --George D. Božović 13:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
GlassFET, what do you consider by "a nation's existing" (which criteria)? --PaxEquilibrium 18:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Having an independent existance recognized as sovereign by its neighbors and other countries. For example, it would be meaningless to refer to someone born prior to 1776 as having been born a citizen of the United States, because the US didn't yet exist. Regardless of prior Kingdoms, etc. the issue is, what country effectively governed the territory at the time of Tesla's birth. That political entity was Austria. GlassFET 20:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
How about having a de facto independent semi-recognized (including by its sovereign) country? --PaxEquilibrium 16:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
That's not a nation. We are talking about nationality here. Sorry. GlassFET 18:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, I could hardly say Bulgaria became a nation in 1908 just because it became a Kingdom (Czarinate?) then and officially detached itself from the Ottoman Empire? I think it existed "as a nation" far earlier than that. --PaxEquilibrium 20:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... seems to me that Tesla was born in the Austro-Hungarian empire, not in "Croatia"... Keep that in mind. --24.150.77.3 (talk) 20:11, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed that nationality is meaningless for a genius like Tesla (and the rest of us mere mortals) but to state that the rest of the civilized world has moved beyond petty tribalism ?? Really? Algerians in France, Mexicans in the US,Israel=Palestine, Chechens-Russians,etc...Would be great though.But not true, even remotely.Leave one thing to the serbs :this is probably their only contribution to this world.Tesla was a serb.The final proof :read his biography, although brilliant he was arrogant and squandered all opportunities to make a fortune.If that;s not Serbianm I dont know what is.==

Let us all clear this out.Tesla is by all means half croat-half serbian-half american scientist.Anyway he was born in Smiljan which is Croatian teritory today like it was before.His both parent were born in Lika.His grandparents are maybe serbs but that doesn't make him or his parents serbs.Tesla was a great scientist so let us all respect him.He doesn't have enough respect today like edison or some similar scinetists so we shouldn't argue about his nationality.One more thing I have seen that someone said. Why... are so many Serbocroats/Yugoslavs nationalist crackpots who fight over the "nationality" of someone who was clearly a cosmopolitan, at a time when none of their states even existed? If Nikola could read these inanities the only thing he'd be proud of is having escaped from Europe. Hear, hear! Nationality is not an intrinsic property. It's accidental, it's a mere label. Wake up you silly balkan people. The rest of the civilized world has moved beyond petty tribalism since WW1. Our states existed at that time if you didn't know. Yeah since ww1,and who started ww2,rest of the civilized world if i am not wrong.

Tesla was not a Croat. Tesla was a Serb. These two are facts and I really can't see why is it such a problem to accept that. (Indeed!) There are many Serbs who were born in what is now Croatia (or what even was Croatia at the time of their birth, unlike Tesla's), but that doesn't make them Croats (perhaps it does make them Croatians, the citizens of Croatia, but certainly not Croats in ethnic sense), and it also doesn't prevent them of being Serbs by ethnicity. There are also some Croats born in what is now Serbia, and there should be no problem with that, too. --George D. Božović 14:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Bozovic, are you not getting tired to answer to really any comment made on Teslas nationality? Do you think this is so important? It´s sad and everyone who´s reading this gets the feeling that you are all idiots, do you know that? You prove nothing but one thing: there is only one hero coming from the balkan, a guy who was educated by austrians. So do you really think you improve your honour with this bullshit? What a great land croatia and serbia must be I wonder why nobody knows Telsa and why so much Nobel-Prize-Winners are actually coming from these countries. 81.210.182.198 12:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
No, I am an idiot. --George D. Božović (talk) 01:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Now, you should have made that clear before open and spoil this discussion.81.210.182.198 (talk) 10:15, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I can't possibly describe with words how sorry I am... --George D. Božović (talk) 15:31, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
And, oh, how sorry for sure everybody is to see you shut up at least. Maradona01 (talk) 20:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Shut up? Myself? Dear god, certainly not. That's why I am an idiot in the first place. :) --George D. Božović (talk) 22:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Not really a matter to laugh about. Maradona01 (talk) 15:11, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Good point. Alas, it doesn't work on an idiot like me. :) --George D. Božović (talk) 21:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment from main talk

(mv'ing this here ... J. D. Redding 04:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC))

When it comes about Tesla’s nationality everyone says things that are not true. Nobody knows the truth or accept the truth. They say he is either Serbian or Croatian but in fact he is an Istro-Romanian!

His original last name was Draghici, but over the years this name got replaced by his nickname “Tesla” (tesla – Romanian therm for adze ) because Nikola’s family were carpeters.

Henry Coandă has presented him as a „bănăţean” from Serbian Banat but he was a Istro-Romanian. Current revision - Scipione01 17:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clear it!!!!!!!

It would be easier if you would just put serbo-croatian scientist.But no,wikipedia needs to complicate things.Why don't you put also austrian scientist.One more thing i would shut down croatian and bosnian wikipedia because they said that he was born in Croatia.Oh my god how could they do such a thing,maybe because he really was born in Croatia and that is the fact.That doesn't make him a serb because Croatia is not Serbia.Just put serbo-croatian scientist because that is the most correct.

It is not. Tesla never said anything like: "I am Serbo-Croatian." He strictly declared as Serb. Being born in what is today Croatia does not prevent him of being Serb by ethnicity. --George D. Božović 18:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ......

What can't you understand,he never said that he is a serb,he said:"ponosan sam svojim srpskim rodom i svojom hrvatskom domovinom".Why is it hard for all of you to understand this.He said that his motherland is Croatia,he had only Serb ancestry because of his roots.His grandmother was a croat,he has never been in Serbia, and Lika the Teslas birthplace was always a Croatian teritory.

Four things, please:
First, you don't have to be in Serbia in order to be a Serb. :D And you know, the quote you mention is not the only thing Tesla ever said. While visiting Belgrade (so, he has been in Serbia at least once ;)) he said: "Najviše sam ponosan na to što je sve što sam u životu uradio djelo jednog Srbina." --George D. Božović 15:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Second, at the time of Tesla's birth Lika was actually not part of Croatia. It was part of the Serb-populated Military Frontier within Austria-Hungary and it was excerpted from the territory of the former Croatian Kingdom. By the way, the Military Frontier had Serb majority all until 1990s. --George D. Božović 15:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Third, I really can't tell what ethnicity was one of Tesla's grandmothers, but it is well-known that both of Tesla's parents were Serbs. As you probably know, both Tesla's father and Tesla's grandfather from his mother's side were Serbian Orthodox priests. --George D. Božović 15:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
And finally fourth, even though Tesla was born in what is now Croatia, and even though he liked his Croatian motherland, that really does not make him a Croat... You can be born in, let's say, France and you can like your country, but you don't need to be French. You can as well freely be Algerian. --George D. Božović

It is refreshing to see that at least one serb is welcome in Croatia.True, it is a dead one, but still good news.

= According to your argument the jews born in Poland that got slaughtered in death camps there should be proud of being polish because they were born there and it was "important" to the!Well at least there is one serb you love.There is hope for the rest of us then.

[edit] The place of birth should be in the first paragraph =

At the very least we should mention he was born in croatia upfront. It's ridiculous not to mention his place of birth at the very begining of his bio. Even if you're a stark raving serb nationalist, you have to acknowledge that he was *physically* born in croatia. If you later want to go on and say he was the archetypical Serb, go on by all means, but do *mention* where he was born. Frankman 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Please read all the above discussion. He was not born in Croatia, because Croatia did not exist as an independent country at the time. The consensus is that this level of detail is not needed. GlassFET 17:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Consensus? Where was the voting done? If there wasn't a vote, I suggest that it might be a good idea to do so. Frankman 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
This is how the Tesla Memorial Society of New York handles the question of Tesla's origin: "Nikola Tesla was born on July 10, 1856 in Smiljan, Lika, which was then part of the Austo-Hungarian Empire, region of Croatia. His father, Milutin Tesla was a Serbian Orthodox Priest and his mother Djuka Mandic was an inventor in her own right of household appliances." Frankman 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
It would be much easier if he had been a Chinese instead of being simply Serb, wouldn't it? I really can't understand why is it so difficult to say: Nikola Tesla was a Serb. Why does everyone here keep inventing some weird proposals and keep trying to avoid saying simply Serb? Does it hurt that much? --George D. Božović 19:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Apparently it is equally difficult to say "Nikola Tesla was born in Smiljan, Lika , Croatia". Evidently this is stupid nationalistic bickering, but even so, why not let both sides be at peace by mentioning both his ethnic origin and his place of birth upfront. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frankman (talk • contribs)
I personally have nothing against mentioning Nikola Tesla's birthplace. However, what seems that you have probably forgotten is the fact that Nikola Tesla was not born in Croatia, was he? --George D. Božović 21:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Was he born in Serbia? Maybe we should just say he is "Austro-Hungarian"... right? Frankman 03:10, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
In a certain way he was... being born in the Austrian Empire. But let's clear out the Croatian thing. You see, Croatia did exist at the time, not as an independent nation of course, but as a province within Austria-Hungary. It is rather interesting to mention that this province, so-called "civil Croatia", actually did not include Lika region, where Tesla was born. Lika was part of another province, the Serb-populated Military Frontier within the Austrian Empire... --George D. Božović 12:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that debating if Lika was a part of Croatia, or if Croatia *existed* at the time is worthwhile (It would lead to infinite hotheaded flaming). I suggest the phrase "present day croatia" should be acceptable, since it is clarifying for people not familiar with the geography or the complicated history of the region. I would really love to see the "wikipedia spirit" prevail over nationalism just this once. Cheers Frankman 14:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
PS: Did you see the movie "The Prestige" ? ... Tesla warns one of the characters about the dangers of obsession. We should be wise to take the advice.

Frankman 14:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The phrase "present-day Croatia" is more than acceptable, of course, but haven't you seen that it was already mentioned as Tesla's birth place a couple of times in the article? I believe the article looks quite fine this way, with all Tesla's citizenship, ethnicity, and place of birth mentioned properly. I don't think it is that important to state that the village of Smiljan, where Tesla was born, is now part of the Republic of Croatia in the first sentence of the article. --George D. Božović 14:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
GlassFET, apparently you consider that even mentioning that Lika is part of "present day Croatia" is unacceptable. You further went on to place a 3 revert rule warning template in my user page (which I didn't even violate by the way) without contacting me in this talk page first. I won't change it again, but I'd like to hear some arguments against my suggestion. Hope to hear your arguments soon.
You had made 3 reverts. The intent of the warning is that it be placed before you make your fourth, for your own good, to prevent you from getting carried away. As for the rest, it's been thoroughly discussed and the majority of regular editors to this article (i.e. the consensus) agree that the current state of the lead paragraph is optimal. GlassFET 15:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

One really important fact in the article is missing. Nikola Tesla was born in todays Croatia, to be more precise, in The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia-Slavonia), which was an autonomous kingdom within Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. He was born in a place called Smiljan in Lika-Krbava (in Croatian) or Lika-Korbava (in Hungarian, a historic administrative county (comitatus) of the autonomous region Croatia-Slavonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lika-Krbava).

In this article, this is not mentioned at all, so the backgrounds of Nikola Tesla was not presented in an objective way. Moreoever, in the the new, updated information about the new memorial center and the museum built recently in his birthplace in Smiljan, is mising the fact that it is located in Croatia. In fact, in the whole article it seems to be tendency not to use word Croatia, although he was born, raised and finished high school there. The essential, important influence on him was made by his professor of mathematic and phisics in high school near Karlovac, Croatia. After he moved away, he visit Croatia several times and he was pronounced as honorary doctor at the University of Zagreb in Croatia. Nikola Tesla once stated that he is proud of his Serbian origin and of his country of Croatia. This quote should definitely exist in his biography, because it says a lot about him.

[edit] Birth place Croatia

Consensus is not important because where you are afraid to write that he is born in today Croatia you are writing POV article. To answer why I will give examples how are written other articles:

  • Vuk Stefanović Karadžić was born in the village of Tršić, Ottoman Empire (now Serbia)
  • Béla Kun born in Szilágycseh, Transylvania, Austria-Hungary (today Cehu Silvaniei, Romania).
  • Karl Renner he was born in Untertannowitz (Dolní Dunajovice) (Moravia)

You will not believe but custom on wiki is to write where is today people place of birth if they have been born in states or territory which today do not exist. To show how are users of this article against Croatia example is that nowhere is writen that Nikola Tesla is born in Croatian krajina but you write Military to evade Croatia question ?? This is very, very sad. Imagine what revert war will start when we from Croatia start to add place of birth Croatia and when user from Serbia deleted that !! Rjecina 5:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

But it is mentioned in article already in the first section. (Please see Nikola_Tesla#Early_years). I believe it's more appropriate to not even include the city, country, and current birthplace in the lead.
// laughing man 06:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Why Croatian Krajina instead of Military Krajina? Croatian Krajina was only a province within Military Krajina. Vuk Karadžić was born in the Ottoman province of Belgrade pashaluk, but why going that deep? It is quite enough to mention the Ottoman Empire only. Would you state that someone was born in Sussex instead of United Kingdom and refuse to mention UK? I believe you write Croatian Krajina instead of Military Krajina only to emphasis that Tesla's birthplace "belongs" to Croatia. And Croatian Krajina was named so only because it bordered Croatia, not because it was part of Croatia. It was not. --George D. Božović 15:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

For great "neutral" historians 1 other info. In XVI c. because of turkish attacks Croatia has been divided in military and civilian Croatia. Military Croatia has been Croatian and Slavonian krajina (you will say military frontier) and civilian Croatia has been Kingdom of Croatia. Rjecina 08:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

The territory that would later become Military Frontier was excerpted from the territory of the Kingdom of Croatia and it was not under Croatia's jurisdiction. What was left to Croatia was then referred to as civil Croatia or proper Croatia. But it was Croatia, and Military Frontier was not. Military Frontier was not part of Croatia at the time nor it was under Croatian rule. It was later, however, abolished and reunited with the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia, but during all of its existence it was a province on its own. Tesla was born in this province, and Croatia at the time of Tesla's birth was located several miles northwards. Tesla could not have been born in Croatia, which was a neighbouring province. Tesla was only born in what is now Croatia, and there is much difference. --George D. Božović 22:58, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
But of course, when talking about countries, Tesla was born in the Austrian Empire (later to become Austria-Hungary), and Croatia didn't exist as a country then, but only as a province within Austria-Hungary. Yet, Tesla was not even born in that province. --George D. Božović 23:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe that was Serbia where Tesla was born? You would probably liked that, but even if the place was few miles south or wherever from the border of Croatia, do you really think that more important are your words that words of him who said: I AM PROUD OF MY COUNTRY CROATIA. I guess this is really difficult to her to you. I am just wandering are you aware of your animosity (to say it soft) towards Croatia - you are counting miles just not to accept what is hurting you. And I am just wandering, what would you say if they put that somebody born at that time was born in the Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia, and that he was born in Zemun. For somebody who supports radicals and seselj, what you probably do, it could be as somebody hits you, although it's true.

I do not support Šešelj and I would like you not to allude to my political opinions, since that has nothing to do with the place of Tesla's birth. Tesla was not born in Serbia, but neither was he born in Croatia. Croatia did not exist as a country then, however it existed as an Austrian province, but Tesla wasn't born in that province and it is a fact which neither I nor Serbian Radical Party have no influence to. Just as much true as someone being born in Zemun at this time was born in Croatia-Slavonia, it is true that Tesla was born in Serb-populated Military Frontier and not Croatia, which was a neighbouring province within Austria-Hungary. I am sorry, but I wasn't the one who drew borders... Perhaps you are the one who is actually hurt by this fact, you supporter of ustaša regime. --George D. Božović 13:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
"Maybe that was Serbia where Tesla was born" - well it sure wasn't Croatia at the time. If Tesla's words overule countries laws and borders then...provide a source. Otherwise, it's clearly stated what the place was at the time of his birth. Overhere 02:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tesla words

You can say what you want but this are words of BBC:

"The scientist once famously stated that he was equally proud of his Serb origin and Croatian homeland. " [1]

I am sure that somebody very, very wise after long thinking will say that this is POV of BBC, like 1 other user from Serbia (PANONIAN) that UN has been POV in resolutions against Serbia during Yugoslav wars. This has Tesla been saying and this will be writen. We will have 1 very nice revert war is you do not want to accept Tesla words :)) ---Rjecina 9:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

This was already talked about. And please avoid adding the material that belongs on this page to the Tesla talk page Overhere 02:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Rjecina, the only reference to support your claim that these were Tesla's words would be the book "My Inventions" itself. The site you provided as a reference to these (apocryphal?) Tesla's words actually doesn't prove them - it only cites them attributing them to Tesla, same as BBC link. I believe you are aware of the link to the actual text of Tesla's book "My Inventions" that Nikola Smolenski gave. In that book there is no such sentence. You know what Wikipedia is for and how it works. If you don't provide exact proof that these words can be found in the book that you say to contain them, then we shall indeed have a nice revert war, but this time with as many sysops and Wikipedia committee members as possible. Wikipedia is not a playground. --George D. Božović 14:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Hehe, the way you solved the problem is interesting indeed, but I'm afraid we're still missing an appropriate reference. You see, I have nothing against this quotation, but in order to make sure that there are not going to be any more users who will start an edit war over it, we must find a reference strong enough to support such a big claim. For example, if you find a letter or a book in which Tesla wrote this, or a record of a speech in which he said this, you will be having a most excellent reference that you are currently missing. On the other hand, we all somehow 'know' that Tesla said this, but what if it is actually an urban legend, something that he never stated even though he was believed so? All we need is a reference, and by that I don't mean a site that simply repeats this quote. Cheers --George D. Božović 14:54, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with the quote, assuming that the citation is valid, but it does not belong in the lead section, which is already too long. According to the Manual of Style, the lead should not be longer than 4 paragraphs. I'd also suggest that the addition of quotes to the lead is not within the spirit of the style guidelines for the lead. GlassFET 16:03, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

For must people it is not important from where is quotation, but that it is from source which ulmost nobody will put in question. I think it is hard to put in question BBC ? Simple I and must other people will not believe that they have writen lies because of this so not important stuff (for them). I do no see point of writing like source "obscure books" because without looking I can tell you that this version will be writen on versions of his book (My inventions) in Croatia. Books in Serbia will have other version (I think). Book which has been given by Nikola Smolenski is not Bible and sorry if I will trust BBC more of Nikola Smolenski (who is that really ?) ---Rjecina 16:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Nikola Smolenski only provided a link to the original text of Tesla's autobiography book: here. It is the Bible when it comes to such claims as "Tesla said this, Tesla said that". You wrote yourself that this Tesla's statement can be found in his autobiography. According to this link, however, it cannot. Are you lying or what? BBC is not a reference - they are only repeating this claim (or perhaps an urban legend?) without of any source given. If you want to attribute a statement to somebody, you must well support it - with a real written or spoken record from that person. Otherwise, you can't just 'put words in other people's mouth' on your own. You cannot speak in another person's name. Including Tesla's. --George D. Božović 17:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
The question, therefore, is: Did Tesla state this or did he not? Can you prove that he actually did? Where did he state this? To whom did he say or wrote this? Is there a verifiable record of it? And is there any source or reference to support it at all? Remember that one of Wikipedia's policies is verifiability, not truth. If you can't find a verifiable solid source, I'm afraid this statement will have to be permanently removed from the article. You simply can't play with other people's statements! How would you feel like if somebody wrote that you stated something that you possibly didn't? --George D. Božović 17:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
The quote is apocryphal. You're not going to find it in any primary sources. It was probably invented by a reporter from the The Independent who falsely claimed it was from My Inventions. From there it spread. Your efforts now are bordering on tendentious editing, so you should probably stop. Simões (talk/contribs) 17:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Again we need to believe you and not BBC. You want that we believe person which write that Tesla is not born in Croatian Krajina or which is deleting that Tesla is born in place which is today Croatia. "Your" article is having 1 very great mistake. In article is writen that "Tesla is honoured in both Croatia and Serbia". Reading article we know why is honoured in Serbia but we do not know why in Croatia. What is connection between Tesla and Croatia. Article is POV and your reverts are POV. Try to make somebody else afraid with tendentious editing. If something about that happen in worst scenario for me we will both be blocked. ---Rjecina 18:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The connection between Tesla and Croatia is that Tesla's birthplace is today located in Croatia. That was just re-included into the article. --George D. Božović 19:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Lets are be clear I am always right :))

(Deputy Secretary General of the Council of Europe)

My finding of this sites has been really ease and fast using Google.

There is no way that somebody can defeat all this sites and original sources of Nikola Tesla words including telegraph message and book My Inventions from 1919. I will give you until 40 hours to come in agreement with sources. Then I will return Tesla words in article. If there will be problems wiki administrators will need to enter game and say who is right I or you all. ---Rjecina 20:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

You have no primary source, and the sources you cite have much overlap. He definitely didn't say it in his autobiography, which spoils another of your sources. Given the obviously dubious nature of some of the links, it still doesn't appear to anything more than repeated apocrypha. You're really going to need to find a primary source for anyone other than you to consider this verified. And administrators don't take official action on content decisions. Simões (talk/contribs) 22:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
If we do not look book edition of 1919 this is primary source:"Vladko Maček, sent Tesla a congratulatory telegram (some sources say that it was on the occasion of his birthday, others that it was prompted by one of Tesla's discoveries), in which he addressed Tesla as “a son of Serbian stock and of the Croatian homeland.” In his return telegram Tesla thanked him warmly and answered that he was equally proud of his Serbian stock and Croatian homeland." Link number 2. ---Rjecina 22:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
First, the Independent article doesn't refer to any particular edition (there is only one edition of My Inventions). It simply states that he wrote it in 1919. As for your "primary source," that's actually a secondary source referring to a primary source. You need the primary source; i.e., the text of the telegram from a reliable record keeper (this doesn't include Balkan governments). Simões (talk/contribs) 22:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

To stop this story about telegram I think it will be best to show link for telegram site. This is only photto of telegram because original is in Belgrade Museum of Nikola Tesla. I hope that now this problem will in the end be solved. http://www.teslasociety.com/teslavillage.htm I am really interested if there will be any more question about that. In my personal thinking and thinking of Tesla historians he has been strong supporter of Yugoslavia so end of telegram is in his style. 1 other stuff about nobody speak in this article when Tesla has come to USA he has identified himself as being born in Croatia. It is real important to say he has not spoken in Immigration office about Military Frontier, Austria or Serbia but about Croatia. Will this problem be now solved ? ---Rjecina 01:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Big deal, here is the first link that popped up when i searched "Vlatko Macek Tesla". PS. this webpage is obviously not pro-Serbian, and I am pretty sure there'd be more. Overhere 13:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Looks good to me. Add in the quote where you think it's most fitting. Simões (talk/contribs) 18:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

==Lepo je videti da bar jedan srbin je dobrodosao u Hrvatskoj (koliko hrvata imaju ime Nikola?).Ne samo to, nego vec svedociti kako hrvati ko ti se bore da jedan srbin bude nazvan hrvatom.Ne smeta ti da je Tesla bio pravoslavac i da su mu roditelji bili oba srbi.Ima znaci nade za buducnost.

For "George" ==

Đorđe ti si glup ko kurac,ti uopce ne bi smio uređivati nista o tesli zato što si srbin i svaki dokaz koji govori da je tesla hrvat ti ces reci da nije zato jer si srbin i neznam ko ti daje pravo da sereš jer nemas pojma nista o hrvatskoj.Hrvatska je u to vrijeme postojala samo sto ti to negiras zato da ne bi ispalo ni slucajno da je tesla imalo hrvat jel to bi unistilo valjda jedinog veceg znanstvenika kojeg "imate".Uostalom ti tolko volis svoju domovinu i ponosan si na nju i njezinu povijest da si napisao da se zoves george.Majmun si i sram te moze biti.Vazno da seres o hrvatskoj,a ne postujes ni srbiju.GLUPANE,NEMOJ SRAT VISE.

Doista! :o Srami se takvih riječi. Bijesan zbog toga što tvoje izmjene na članku nisu ispravne tu na taj način sramotiš sebe jedino dokazujući da nemaš nikakvih argumenata za svoje tvrdnje i da si jako priprost čovjek, moram priznati. Osobe koje nemaju nimalo odgoja ne bi uopće smjele urećivati Vikipediju... No, za razliku od tebe, pokušat ću biti civiliziran. Prije svega, Tesla nije Hrvat i gdje su ti dokazi koji govore da jeste a koje ja niječem? Drugo, Hrvatska u to vrijeme nije postojala kao samostalna država, no ipak je postojala kao, kako to da kažem, jedna povijesna pokrajina u Austrijskom carstvu. Stvar je jednostavno u tome što Tesla nije bio rođen u toj pokrajini, nego u jednoj drugoj pokrajini koja se zvala Vojna krajina. To nema nikakve veze ni sa mnom ni s tobom; to je prosto tako, a ako si suviše glup i neodgojen da to shvatiš ja ti ništa ne mogu pomoći... A to koliko ja volim svoju domovinu i koliko sam ili koliko nisam ponosan na nju, sasvim je nevažno u ovoj diskusiji i molio bih te da se suzdržiš od prostačkih napada i patetičnih vrijeđanja. Ako doista želiš iznijeti tvrdnje da je Tesla bio Hrvat i da je Hrvatska u to vrijeme postojala, te da je Tesla bio rođen u njoj, izvoli slobodno, što mi Srbi umijemo kazati: "široko ti polje"; iznesi dokaze i valjane izvore pa slobodno možeš to, tako ponosito na svoju domovinu i njezinu tisućljetnu povijest, raširiti po čitavom članku dokle ti se dupe ne zasiti. Ja ti neću stajati na putu, a posebno te neću vrijeđati i psovati samo zato što mi se ne sviđaju dokazi koji govore drugačije... --George D. Božović 10:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Oprosti mi molim te,nisam ja kriv što si ti tako pametan.Po tvojim razmišljanjima Tesla je bio Austrijanac.Sigurno su ljudi rođeni u vojnoj krajini nazivani Austrijancima ili vojno krajinašima.Pošto je moj deda bio Srbin,i što imam nešto Srbske krvi da li to mene čini Srbinom.Naravno da me ne čini,imam Hrvatsko državljanstvo,a ne Srbsko.Rođen sam u Hrvatskoj,a ne u Srbiji.Pošto ti navodiš da je Tesla bio rođen u nečem što je danas Hrvatska,onda su svi koje znam Jugoslaveni,a ne Hrvati,Srbi,Slovenci,......i ostalih nacionalnosti.Onda u svim dokumentima treba pisati da su ljudi rođeni u Jugoslaviji,Jugoslaveni i sad bi trebali imati Jugoslavensko državljanstvo. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466276,gledaj spomen ploču,slika 15 po redu.

Hm, začudićeš se, ali upravo su ljudi iz Vojne Krajine nazivani Krajišnicima... Čudnovato, nije li? --George D. Božović 11:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Nisam sasvim siguran razumiješ li razliku između pripadanja jednom etnosu i posjedovanja nekog državljanstva. Tesla je imao američko državljanstvo, ali po nacionalnosti (Englezi upravo ne bi rekli nationality, jer to je kod njih "iz koje si države, državljanstvo dakle", nego ethnicity, što je "pripadanje narodu", ali to se kod nas kaže narodnost ili nacionalnost), Tesla je bio Srbin. Roditelji su mu bili Srbi i on se osjećao Srbinom. (To je ono što se računa; baš kao što se i ti osjećaš Hrvatom, on je bio Srbin.) A vidiš, ne moraš da budeš rođen u Srbiji da bi bio Srbin... To bi vjerojatno značilo i da Hrvata ima samo u Hrvatskoj, i to pod uvjetom da su tu i rođeni, pa onda možeš slobodno izbrisati Burgenland (Gradišće) s demografskih karti, na primjer... --George D. Božović 11:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Prije nego što napustim razgovore o Tesli jedan komentar o Vašoj raspravi. Prvo prilično je nekulturno ulaziti anonimno u raspravu nadam se da ćemo se oko toga složiti. Drugo bi bilo da je Tesla rođen u Hrvatskoj Krajini. Čuo sam genijalnih komentara da bi napisat tako nešto bilo kao da se napiše da je čovjek rođen u Wesexu, a ne u Engleskoj što je glupost. Koristeći ovu alegoriju moram reći da bi to bilo kao napisati da je čovjek rođen u Engleskoj namjesto napisati da je rođen u UK. Zašto ? Pošto je Vojna Krajina imala samo 2 dijela (Hrvatsku i Slavonsku). Inače za kraj moram se složiti s potpisanim kolegom da nacionalnost i državljanstvo nemaju nikakve međusobne veze. Bez obzira na mjesto gdje ja živim mene prije svega zanima istina koja je samo jedna za sve nas, a sve ostalo je propaganda ili laž--Rjecina 14:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Zapravo, ovaj spisak nabraja devet dijelova... Svejedno. Ipak ne vidim zašto inzistirati na Hrvatskoj Krajini umjesto Vojnoj Krajini? --George D. Božović 16:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I have not known that in XIX century has been more of 2 parts :)) Why Croatian krajina and not Military Frontier ? Answer is simple: Article will have peace without nationalistic revert wars. Second reason with which maybe you will not agree that in the end this (something like this) has been wish of Tesla if we look what he is saying in 1884 (immigration office in USA) and in 1936 (telegram false or not it has been from his lifetime so he has opportunity to say that it is false) --Rjecina 17:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe it would be OK with me, but there is some kind of a consensus other users mentioned to me which proscribed that the article should mention Military Frontier and not the Croatian Frontier or Croatia etc. So, if Croatian Frontier is fine with the consensus, then you can freely replace Military Frontier with Croatian Frontier... Also, note this: If you find out that Croatian Krajina doesn't fit the consensus, do not start another edit war please, but rather try to change the consensus, it's quite easier. :) Cheers, --George D. Božović 18:26, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tesla is born in Croatian Krajina

Lets look for consensus so that article start with "Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, he was an ethnic Serb". Reasons for starting article in this way are:

  • So there will not be in future revert wars. You can see that every month 1 or more users are coming and changing Military Frontier. In the end who know outside Balkan where is Military Frontier
  • I was born in Croatia (Tesla words in USA immigration office. year is 1884)
  • I was born in Croatia ( Nikola Tesla, New York Times, Oct. 19, 1934)
  • Tesla telegram 1936.

In the end revert wars are not important but only important are Tesla words.

I will wait for 7 days that somebody give arguments which will defeat this 4 for writing Croatian Krajina. If nobody can defeat them I will change article begining in Croatian Krajina. --Rjecina 21:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Croatia didn't exist then. There you go. He could have said "I was born in the land of fairies," but that doesn't change the fact that he was born in Military Frontier, Austria-Hungary. And reverting edits by Croatian nationalists once a month isn't much of a burden. Simões (talk/contribs) 22:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Rjecina: Threatening with a revert war is a pathetic argument. Your other argument is childish - Tesla's words don't overrule history - is this so hard to understand? If you want a revert war and to continue this then I got no problem of engaging in a revert war over the telegram statement and giving you plenty of arguments "to defeat" on whether the telegram is fake or not. Overhere 01:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
We are speaking about arguments not threats. I know very good that he is born Croatian Krajina and not in Croatia. Point is to write Croatian Krajina and not Military Frontier. Second possibilty is to write after Military Frontier (today Croatia). I have not hear any reasons against that --Rjecina 1:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
You're obviously trying any way you can to get the word "Croatia" in there. Asking for mention of either "Croatian Krajina" or that his birthplace is in modern-day Croatia are two different things entirely. That either one would satisfy you exposes you as a nationalistic, tendentious editor (as if this had not been done already). However reasonable or unreasonable your requests are individually, you're only inspiring people to ignore you as just another nationalist. This is why we send your ilk and your Serbian nationalist counterparts to this page. Simões (talk/contribs) 19:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Uh!

"Croatian Frontier" and "Banat Frontier" are all just stupid unofficial names for a part of the Military Frontier that, as such, never really existed.

If you want to go more in precise of the Military Frontier, say Karlovac Generalate and then Smiljan, Gospic.

Perhaps you should write that the birthplace of people in south Italy is "Megale Hellas" or people born in Kosovo, Macedonia and Sanjak with "Old Serbia" their birthplace. Of course not.

I live in Croatia and I demand that it be put that he was born in present-day Croatia. But born in Hrvatska Krajina - thats not even nationalistic, thats just false. --195.29.129.126 12:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe the fact that Tesla's birthplace is today located in Croatia has been introduced to the article a long time ago. :) --George D. Božović 13:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I am Croatia nationalistic tendentious editor dear Simoes ? Let see then what are you and other users which are working on this page. First we have fight about Tesla words "I'm equally proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian homeland". After yours constant deleting because there is no evidence (?) that Tesla has say this words, you have accepted only after evidence which is not possible to destroy have been find. When this has been done the your neutral users have come to idea that this words are not good enough for begining of article ?? After that you have moral bravery to say that you and others users which are working on this article are neutral ? I stay with my comment that Tesla has been always speaking that he is from Croatia. Do you want to say how you or any of us which live today known better of Tesla where he is born. Only person blind with nationalistic fundamentalism can say that he known better of Tesla what is his homeland ! --Rjecina 14:38, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I must say that Tesla's words really do not overrun country borders. He could have said that he was born anywhere, but that doesn't change where he was really born. Perhaps he was saying that he was born in Croatia, but he was born in the Austrian Empire and not even his words can change that. --George D. Božović 07:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Article is POV because editors do not allow that Tesla words about his nationality and homeland be written in begining of article. First explanation for refusal has been that there is not evidence for that statement. When evidence has been found new reason has become that this is not for begining of article. Finding new reasons for refusal of statement is evidence of POV thinking. Rjecina 17:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure the appropriate reference has been found. --George D. Božović 18:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of that quote, Smiljan is obviously in Croatia now. It's ridiculous that this fact is never mentioned in the intro nor in the infobox. Zocky | picture popups 22:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

There are many true and untrue things here. Fact # 1 - Croatia did exist at that time. Croatia was in union under Habsburg crown, but it was not just some abstract area, it was in fact kingdom that elected Ferdinand I as a king (1527). Fact # 2 - it is true that when Tesla was born, Smiljan was under Military Frontier (Vojna Krajina), which was a temporary zone along the border with Ottoman Empire and administered directly by the military authorities of Habsburg Monarchy, not by Croatian Sabor and Ban. It returned under the civil administration of Croatia in 1881. Fact # 3 - It would be absolutely correct thing to say that Tesla was born in Croatia and that he was ethnic Serb and that he accepted both identities.(Even if the area was under military administration, it was still Croatia. So, what, Lastovo was not Croatia or Boka was not Montenegro or Batajnica was not Serbia because it was administered by JNA???) That would be the only correct thing to say. But, I guess this place is a pissing match between Serbs and Croats (for example, I am Croatian, but ethnic Slovenian. And I have no problem with this dual identity, and I think that people should accept Tesla's) Potjernik

JNA was an army, and Military Frontier was an administrative unit. All you wrote is true, except that it would not be correct to say that Tesla was born in Croatia, because he was in fact born in the neighbouring Serb-settled province of the Austrian Empire. It would only be correct to say that Tesla was born in the present-day Croatia, and there's absolutely no problem with that. --George D. Božović 14:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I have given until now 3 options of article beginnings but you have all until now refused. this options have been:

  • "Born in Smiljan, Military Frontier (today Croatia), he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire"
  • "Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire" (my comment: He is born in Croatian Krajina which is part of Military Frontier)
  • "Born in Smiljan, Military Frontier, he was subject of the Austrian Empire" (my comment: now nobody speak about Croatia or Serbia and we are all happy)

I do not have time now to play (start great revert war) about this article, but when I start end text will be:

  • "Born in Smiljan, Military Frontier (today Croatia), he was subject of the Austrian Empire"

Simple speaking who is playing with sword .... Rjecina 14:35, 10 august 2007 (UTC)

The article begins with:
Nikola Tesla [...] was an inventor, physicist, mechanical engineer and electrical engineer. Born in Smiljan, Military Frontier, he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire and later became an American citizen.
Nobody speaks of Serbia or Croatia, and we are all happy, and the fact that Smiljan is today located in Croatia was also mentioned in the Early years section. --George D. Božović 14:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
If in begining of article need to be writen that he is "Serb subject" then I must insist to be writen how his home town is in today Croatia. In that way there is no POV. In the end why all wiki others from this are having that he is born in today Croatia writen in begining of article. This is POV and because of that we will have problems. .... Rjecina 15:07, 10 august 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, this was the most neutral and quite appropriate phrasing in the introductory and Early years sections of the article. --George D. Božović 14:02, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes this version is OK but they will not let that in article. Rjecina 14:11, 13 august 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Blood is not water! One with blood of a Navajo Indian cannot be an Englishman. It's the Navajo blood

In these discussions, I've seen comments of blood, like Serbian blood. Do you people really think there is something like 'blood'? Or that the 'blood' of a Serb differs from the 'blood' of a Russian or an Englishman? Let's put it like this! You are an Englishman. You have a terrible car accident somewhere in Bosnia, year is 1983 A.D. Let's say you have all the gear and devices to transfer blood. There are other English people there with you, and some German people. They check each others blood types and realise none of them can give you blood. None of them is type O, and you have a B- blood type. You are dying and in desperate need of help. Your English and German buddies drive you 2 miles east of the place of your accident and you enter a village, or better said a small town full of people. Three friends, Josip, Osman and Nemanja, sitting at the Cafe bar look at you all, and see that your friends are carrying you, all covered in blood. They start shouting 'Do you need help?', and your friends say that they need blood immediately and if some of them is healthy and has B- blood type or O- blood type, can he give blood? They are all healthy, but Josip is A+, Osman is A+ as well and Nemanja is O-. Nemanja, a young Serb gives blood to you. You get better and survive. This is not a joke nor it is a coincidence. It is the Serbian blood, the great Serbian blood that saved you. And now, you have become a Serb, or at least a bit Serb, because you are carrying Serbian blood. You may say goodbye to Englishdom, because Serbdom is your life now. You should be proud, because the blood of Serbs is what Tesla also had. It was the blood, not just any blood but the Serb blood. Tesla had Serbian blood. A man of his scientifical range would be worthless without being a Serb. People don't fool yourselves. Ideas aren't important. It's the blood that's important, all that matters. Customs and agenda are also useless. It's the blood that defines us. Our familiy lines, and our antcestors have existed since the forming of our nations. I myself a Croat haven't got any antcestors before the 7th century. God created my first antcestor then (in 698. A.D.) and God said:"You will forever be Croat. I am giving you Croat blood, for Croatdom to exist from now on to eternity! Long live Croats, may the Croat blood give them glory!" People, don't try to trick me because i won't believe you. You cannot convince me that I had some antcestors in 2357. B.C. That is impossible. But maybe, just maybe i had. But then they were Croats even then and that proves that Croats are in fact 3000 years older than it was until now believed. Blood, yes!

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nikola_Tesla/Archive_10"

       --quite possibly the most shallow-minded comment ive ever heard  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.61.133 (talk) 19:56, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Serb genes

Tesla must have been a geneticaly determined Serb. We shouldn't care about ideas. Just the genetics that matters. His ascedent antcestor that lived 4 million years ago was a monkey looking Serb. Or a Serb looking monkey? But the point is Serbdom and it's genes.

You don't need to be ironic about someone's ethnicity. Tesla was a Serb (and according to that - a Serbian scientist), and with all good faith, I still can't figure out why is it so terrific to point out that. It's just like complaining about Tolstoy being a Russian writer because he was a Russian by ethnicity. Perhaps you would like to joke about Tolstoy's Russian-looking monkey ancestor too? --George D. Božović 00:22, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For Božović and his Wikiproject (Gre4ter) Serbia

You disagree with me Džordže? About the 'Serb blood'. It's mentioned in the discussion at least two times. Such comments of Serbian blood, or English blood are nowadays primitive wouldn't you say? Tesla was a Serb, but his work is 0.000000000000000001% related to the Serbian state. How long was Tesla in Serbia again? Tesla should be part of Wikiproject Austria. Wasn't Austria where he was born and grew up? And Wikiproject United States.

My name is not Džordže, it's Đorđe. And the wikiproject is not nearly "mine", of course... On the other hand, Wikiproject Serbia aims to collect the articles connected to Serbs and Serbia. Nikola Tesla was a Serb. Moreover, this article already is within the scope of wikiprojects Austria and New York City (which obviously aim to collect articles on people who were born/lived in Austria or New York City), as well as Wikiproject Croatia. :) And what was your point, again? I'm not quite sure what are you getting at. --George D. Božović 12:29, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requests for comment

In all others wikipedia in begining of article is writen text that he is of Serb origin and born in Smiljan (today Croatia). Few users (2 or 3)of english wiki are reverting all users which write that Nikola Tesla is born in today Croatia. Rjecina 17:14, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

That is because it is historically inaccurate. Croatia was not a country at the time of Tesla's birth. Smiljan was part of Austria-Hungary, an area specifically called Military Frontier at that time. Tesla's nationality is Austro-Hungarian. You are removing important information from the article. The fact that Smiljan is now located in Croatia is mentioned later in the article. It is not particularly important except to the Croatian nationalists who visit on a regular basis. GlassFET 17:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Please stop this Croatophobia. If I or somebody else believe in your argument then all others wiki are full or Croatian nationalists. It is interesting that even Serbian wiki is full of Croatian nationalists because in her is writen Born in Smiljan near Gospić (Austro-Hungary, today Croatia). English wikipedia users need to choose if all others wiki from Turkish to Serbian and from Galego to Russian are right or GlassFET version of english wiki is right. Rjecina 17:43, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
It's not my version. It is the consensus version arrived at on this very page. Have you read it? GlassFET 18:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I am really interested to see this consensus version because this is your only argument against change. Show me page, write day when consensus is reached. It is normal that I want to see votes. If this is your only reason for constant reverting we will very fast have new voting about consensus. Rjecina 19:01, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
We don't vote. You have not read the entire page, or you would know there are many more than me who object to putting "present day Croatia" into the lead, because it is already mentioned later in the article in an appropriate place. Read this page, the consensus is on it. This happens over and over again: it's usually about two for, six against. GlassFET 19:43, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

After first non truth about consensus now there is another. On this discussion page users George D. Božović, Potjernik, Zocky, Frankman and I have supported writing that he is born in today Croatia. Against are users Simões, Overhere and you ?? This is 5 : 3 for writing that he is born in today Croatia. I will tell truth that I have not looked text under number 3 and 4 because his nationality is without question Serbian. Now you can please explain from where there are your numbers 2 for writing today Croatia and 6 against ?? Rjecina 20:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Uh, you must not have read very closely, George D. Božović actually opposed to your position, stating "Smiljan was not within Croatia at that time" and "what seems that you have probably forgotten is the fact that Nikola Tesla was not born in Croatia, was he?" and "The phrase "present-day Croatia" is more than acceptable, of course, but haven't you seen that it was already mentioned as Tesla's birth place a couple of times in the article? I believe the article looks quite fine this way" That is, he agrees with the consensus that while it should be mentioned, it shouldn't be mentioned in the lead. Try to read more carefully. GlassFET 20:31, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Be one time good and start writing truth and only truth: I am sure that you have seen that but because of others I will using copy/paste transfer his words here: In my opinion, this was the most neutral and quite appropriate phrasing in the introductory and Early years sections of the article. --George D. Božović 14:02, 11 August 2007 (UTC) Rjecina 20:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Futhermore, besides putting George D. Božović on the wrong side, you've also missed PaxEquilibrium, PANONIAN, and laughing man. You've also neglected the fact that only you and Frankman are currently active in your opposition to the consensus. That makes 2 ( you + Frankman) vs. 7 (the 3 you listed plus the 4 I just listed). If we include the other editors who have been reverting the article b/c they are aware of the consensus but haven't posted on this page, it'd be even more lopsided against you. GlassFET 20:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Again wrong. I have missed laughing man (really stupid mistake) but not PANONIAN, and PaxEquilibrium. They have never spoken on this page against definition that he is born in today Croatia. They have only spoken that in time of his birth this has not been Croatia So now situation is 5 : 4. Consensus on discussion page is still that in begining of article is writen how he is born in today Croatia. I will tell you again if you want that we call all editors in last 6 months which has edited this part of article and call them for vote ! Rjecina 20:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, as I posted before, consensus is not based on a vote. It is based on the strength of the arguments. You version is historically inaccurate, and is therefore against the general consensus on this page, which is that the lead must include Military Frontier, Austria-Hungary to be acceptable. I think you will find that you won't be able to push your version, because there are many more editors against it than post on this page. It hasn't stuck so far, and that is why. GlassFET 21:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Who will say which arguments are stronger ? You. I only know that your english wiki version is against all others wiki and this argument need to be stronger of any other if this is wikipedia. After saying that I still do not understand why is my version historically inaccurate if only change is that his birth place is now in Croatia ? I will be happy to her reasons for that Rjecina 21:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

But that's not the only change. You've deleted important information. Or didn't you notice while doing blind reverts? GlassFET 21:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Just coming lured by the RfC. A few remarks.

  • When nobody cares, biography introductions commonly designate the current political location of personalities birthplaces. Examples : Immanuel Kant "was a German philosopher from Königsberg in East Prussia (now Kaliningrad, Russia)" - Johann Heinrich Lambert "was a German mathematician, physicist and astronomer. He was born in Mülhausen (now Mulhouse, Alsace, France)." (for :de he is Swiss, not German but this is a bit off topic in this discussion :-)) - Jan Łukasiewicz "was a Polish mathematician born in Lemberg, Galicia, Austria-Hungary (now Lviv, Ukraine)". Hence using "now Croatia" in the article is probably more coherent with general informal policies of this Wikipedia ;
  • As concern my personal preferences, this information seems to me totally irrelevant and I should prefer using geographical vocabulary pertaining to the birthdate. Once on :fr I modified the article on Kant, and was not reverted : [2]. Choosing this direction is trickier since it requires choosing a regional name ; Croatian Krajina (or Croation Frontier - I don't feel any difference between both formulations) seems to me obviously a good level of precision - more informative than "Military Frontier" as the article about Immanuel Kant adds "East" to Prussia.
  • In conclusion, I have a slight preferrence for "Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire" while I admit that "Born in Smiljan, Military Frontier (present day Croatia), he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire" is probably more in touch with other Wikipedia biographies. Versions avoiding using words "Croatia" or "Croatian" seem to me artificial and I shall in no way endorse them. French Tourist 22:12, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
If you read the whole page, you will find that Croatian Krajina is inaccurate. Also, the omission of the country, Austria-Hungary from both of your suggestions is inexplicable. GlassFET 22:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I read it. As concerns Austria-Hungary, I don't undestand you. Tesla was born in 1856 and Austria-Hungary eleven years later or do I miss something ? As the inaccuracy of "Croatian Krajina" my ignorance of political subdivisions of the Austrian Empire is great, but as far as I read (mainly Wikipedia pages), the term seems to have a meaning until 1882, and hence not to be an anachronism to be used for a birth in 1856, or is it ? French Tourist 22:24, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Military Frontier was the province of Austria-Hungary containing Smiljan at the time of Tesla's birth. Croatian Krajina was only a subprovince of Military Frontier. And Croatian Krajina was not a part of Croatia, which was a different province. GlassFET 22:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I had fully understood it. And I see no reason not to use the subprovince name, especially looking at the tricky shape of Military Frontier (while using "Karlovac generalate" would seem artificial). French Tourist 22:47, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, my interest is simply historical accuracy. I wouldn't object to Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, Military Frontier, Austria-Hungary. The fact that it's in present day Croatia is mentioned later. GlassFET 22:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Astoundingly heavy, but why not add this "Military Frontier" it does not bother me. But I still don't understand the "Austria-Hungary" - the Habsburg state was called Austrian Empire in 1856, was not it ? (And there is no reason to repeat "Austrian Empire" since it is consensually and nicely located presently at the end of the sentence. So I can also endorse "Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, Military Frontier, he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire" if it can help. Let's wait other reactions. French Tourist 23:01, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Then why don't you list all the possible subprovinces - municipalities, counties - to which the village of Smiljan belonged to in 1856? :) It's just like you wrote in the introductory section of J. K. Rowling article that she was born in Yate, South Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire, South West England, England, United Kingdom. Silly, isn't it? --George D. Božović 13:44, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes we have to find compromises. My initial proposal was "town + 1 level of administration + country". GlassFET seemed to prefer for "town + 2 levels of administration + country", which is not too bad here since a stylical trick allowed to move the country further. The present equilibrium is not my favorite solution, but if every editor does not admit anything else than his favorite solution, for sure we shall not stabilize the article ! It is factually true, not insanely clumsy, why not keep it ? French Tourist 13:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I suppose you're right. The trick with country being put at the end of the sentence probably does the work with the style. --George D. Božović 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question about Tesla's parents??

I just want to ask a question,where were Teslas parents born?I don't mean in what country but in what city,because now Serbia will probably fall apart on only Beograd and local surroundings.I mean because Kosovo will now be an independent country like Crna Gora,so if Tesla's parents were born in any of this future countrys then you won't be able to say that he is a Serbian, but you wil need to say that his roots are from one of these countrys. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.51.123 (talk)

Tesla's parents were born in the Military Frontier, which was settled by a large number of Serbs at that time. --George D. Božović 16:39, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

So Tesla and his parents were born in Vojna Krajina.How can you say then that he was a Serb?His only connection with Serbia could be his religion.But you have to take in observation that many people were then Pravoslavci and religion shouldn't take role in figuring out nationality. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.41.78 (talk) 11:18, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

Silly. I suppose he was an ethnic "Vojnokrajinac" or something like that. One doesn't have to be born in Serbia in order to be a Serb, you know... Many Serbs also traditionally inhabit Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina, as well as the Military Frontier (Vojna Krajina) at the time of Tesla's birth. But look, Tesla declared as Serb, just like both his parents and many other ancestors did, and that's really the only thing that counts. --George D. Božović 14:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

But he has to have a connection with Serbia what Tesla didn't have.He can't be an ethnic Serb from nowhere.Please explain your words.

Also when did Tesla declare that he is a Serb.

No, one doesn't have to be connected to Serbia in any way in order to be a Serb by ethnicity. Try to understand this. Many Serbs are, for example, born in Montenegro or Bosnia and Herzegovina, where they may live and work and never even visit Serbia, but that does not prevent them of being Serbs by ethnicity. Tesla was born in the Military Frontier, which was mostly populated by the Serbs at that time, similarly to Serbia, Montenegro or Bosnia and Herzegovina today... Serb communities exist all across the world and people who declare as Serbs live there, no matter if they are connected to Serbia or not (and in fact most of them are not). --George D. Božović 14:28, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Tesla pointed out his Serbian ethnicity several times. When he visited Belgrade, for example, he said after a speech about his work in the USA: "But most of all, I am proud that everything that I've created was done by a Serb." And so on... --George D. Božović 14:28, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I understand this now but the problem is that Tesla was born in what is today Croatia and it should also say that he is a Croatian scientist because he went to school here,also when someone said that Tesla said that he was equally proud of his Serbian stock and Croatian homeland someone said that this was made up so I can also say that Tesla din't declare as a Serbian and that this was made up.Here is a link http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466276,gledaj ,look at the 15th picture.Also I see from your words that you accept Crna Gora,Vojvodina & Kosovo as their own nation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.112.252 (talk) 21:05, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Tesla is a Serbian scientist because he was a self-declared Serb by ethnicity. He is also an American scientist because he lived and worked in the USA and had American citizenship. And yes, he would perhaps also be a Croatian scientist because his birthplace is located in the present-day Croatia and he went to school in Croatia, and if you wish, he declared Croatia as his homeland. Perhaps he could even be an Austrian scientist because he was born in the Austrian Empire... That is all true, and the article correctly mentions all this. --George D. Božović 13:04, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Montenegro is an independent nation. Vojvodina and Kosovo are, at least so far, provinces of Serbia. There is nothing I could myself accept or deny about it, of course, and even if I do, that really has nothing to do neither with the country borders nor with Tesla. ;) --George D. Božović 13:04, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Nikola Tesla's Croatian!

According to your logic,you should go tell all croats born in Bosnia that they are bosnians. Good luck with that (write your will before you do that)


Nikola Tesla's a CROAT. It doesnt matter his Serb origin - he didnt even spend A DAY in Serbia. The current article is proChetnik because it writes that he's Serb. STOP COUNTING BLODCELS!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by UstashkiDom (talk • contribs) 19:25, August 23, 2007 (UTC).

Nikola Tesla himself declared as Serb. Being a Serb by ethnicity has nothing to do with spending time in Serbia. --George D. Božović 10:11, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comfirmation link

"I'm equally proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian homeland."

some idiot removed the reference which was clearly written in a pre-WWII telegram. can someone explain this? --83.131.18.67 11:39, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

The intro calls his homeland Croatian Krajina when back then it was Serbian Krajina, and if Croatians felt that everyone who lived in Croatia then why did they expel 250,000 Serbians in 1995? Do you think Nikola Tesla a Serb by blood and religon would have been so proud then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.187.81 (talk) 17:02, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter. It was Vojna Krajina ('the Military Frontier') back then, and one of its subdivisions, the one Tesla was born in, was also frequently called Croatian Frontier (Croatian Krajina). --George D. Božović 17:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why WikiProject Serbia?????

Why is this article WikiProject Serbia.This article doesn't talk about Serbia and this should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.33.29 (talk) 13:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Serbia aims to collect articles about Serbia, the Serbs, Serbian culture, etc. Nikola Tesla is within the scope of this wikiproject because he was a Serbian scientist, that is, a Serb by ethnicity. ;) --George D. Božović 15:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Here we go again,you can't say that he was a 100 precent Serb.He was not only a Serbian scientist and I have seen many artciles about scientists and it doesn't say this is a part of wikiproject some-country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.116.200 (talk) 15:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Most true... he was not only a Serbian scientist, but he was a Serbian scientist. And due to that fact, this article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, which tends to collect articles about prominent Serbs. People who have formed this wikiproject are interested in editing biographies of famous people of the Serb ethnicity, and there you are... --George D. Božović 21:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serb/Croat arguments

I came to this article from the "Lamest Edit Wars" page to check about this particular question. It's worse than I thought. Would you find the sentence "He was an ethnic Serb subject of the blablabla" in Britannica? I doubt it, and honestly I don't care about that. Ethnicity is a dubious concept, not backed by much science, it would be much better to mostly leave it out of an encyclopedia except where really necessary or relevant. Isn't there a better way to put it without invoking "ethnicity"? 213.114.83.242 11:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

First of all, Tesla's ethnicity is not dubious at all. Both his parents and all his ancestors were Serbs, so he could hardly have been a Maori, for example. Then, he was proud of his ancestry. For instance, he used to translate Serbian poems into English, and so on. The problem with Tesla, you see, is not about his ethnicity - it is actually about his nationality. There are people who claim that he was born in Croatia and thus was a Croatian scientist, but sometimes they lack sources. Perhaps it would be better to put it without invoking suspicious claims about his nationality. (They're suspicious because Croatia didn't even exist as a country at the time of Tesla's birth, so I really can't imagine how could have he been "an ethnic Serb born in Croatia"...) --George D. Božović 13:50, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Although I don't care much about these ethnicity squabbles- the notion that Croatia didn't exist in the 1800s is preposterous. OK, where had Vuk Karadžić and Miloš Obrenović been born ? In Turkey, I guess (following this line of argument), since Serbia, in the times of their births, "did not exist". Get over these Serbian genetic-pseudohistoriographic measles, it's boooooring. Mir Harven 18:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Neither one of the names you cite were born in modern-day Croatia. We say Croatia didn't exist in the 19th century in the same manner that we say the United States didn't exist in the 17th century. Aside from being universal convention, it is also just common sense. Simões (talk/contribs) 19:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Saying that Tesla was "born in the present-day Croatia" is more than true, of course, but at the very time of his birth technically it was not Croatia where he was born, so you can't say that he was "born in Croatia". And no different than that, Vuk Karadžić and Miloš Obrenović were born in the Ottoman Empire - they were, technically speaking, no matter if it is Serbia today... --George D. Božović 21:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I know nothing about the Serbian/Croatian debate, and I'm completely neutral on the subject, coming from the Request for Comment. It seems clear to me that a compromise is in order, mentioning that Tesla was born in what was then known as ________ and is now Croatia, and that he was ethnically Serbian.--Gloriamarie 22:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Most correct. --George D. Božović 14:56, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

He was a Serb and a scientist. But not a Serbian scientist (in a sense that he belonged to Serbian science), simply because his scientific work and education had nothing to do with Serbia. But the article states that he was a Serbian, twice. First reference is "Serbian inventor, physicist, mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer" and later it's again written that he was a Serb. One of those statements should certainly be removed as it's abundant information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.33.220 (talk) 23:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

You’re right, it makes sense to me. --George D. Božović (talk) 16:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Serb/Croat arguments

It appears that Serb and Croat nationalists have decided to make this talk page a battleground for their squabbling over Tesla's ethnicity. The talk page for the 0.999... article has a special page where arguments against the proofs given in the article are placed (to avoid cluttering up the main talk page with unproductive comments). Would anyone object to the same being done here for the serb/croat stuff? Simões (talk/contribs) 14:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

There's no productive discussion going on anyway. It's almost all anonymous nationalists on either side flaming each other. This isn't suitable for a talk page full stop. Chris Cunningham 14:05, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Odd, because the article itself is so good. I think the idea has merit, although I would miss the fights. Karldoh 14:03, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Update: It's funny how fast another ethnicity argument started. The subtalkpage is born, and things are already a lot quieter. Good day! Simões (talk/contribs) 15:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

It's all so silly. Croats and Serbs should just be proud that he's from the Balkans and then consider the fact that he wouldn't give a rat's a** about them since one of his proudest moments was becoming an American. haha Maîtresse 07:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Tesla was a Serb, born in Croatia. The article is not objective, and I think objectivity is important. One harmless example of that is presenting banknote of Serbia with his image and not presenting the croatian one. Apparently this wiki page is edited by serbian wiki page, and that's why it's not objective. I suggest that the page should be edited by another wiki project. That's how we will stop counting Tesla's blood cells and manipulating with the history. Give Tesla in the hands of neutral party. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.35.251 (talk) 12:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

- Tesla was a Serb and only because some other politicians from some other country where he was born are trying to associate Tesla's name to their country doesnt make him non-Serb. If this is not clear to you guys than do some research on his past and than you will see who is right and who is wrong(and what is true and whats not) rather than just making a vague decision's while being neutral. Very accurate article here on Wiki.

-Tesla was of wallach - serb heritage that's clear. He was born in Croatia, that's clear too. I think we should stick to his words: "i am proud of my heritage but i am also proud of my croatian homeland". That's the end of it guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.154.155 (talk) 18:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nicola Tesla Serbian Inventor?

there should be an edit where it is saying hes a serbian inventor since most of the article contradicts the serbian part, since hes croatian:

Nikola Tesla (Serbian Cyrillic: Никола Тесла) (10 July 1856 – 7 January 1943) was a Serbian inventor, physicist, mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer. Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, Military Frontier, he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire and later became an American citizen.

any 1 who knows how to change, plz do

(i meen if i die and it turns out some one in my fam. tree was spanish or somethin, and i made a famous invention, woulnt the spanish then try to claim me sayin im a spanish person too ?)

else claim tesla for africa, thats where human life is said to have originated from

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitsuruki (talk • contribs) 19:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I do not understand what you are trying to say. He was an ethnic Serb (not an ethnic Croat) born in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in what is now known as Croatia. Keep in mind that Croatia, as we know it today, did not exist at that time: it was the Croatian Krajina Military Frontier. In an empire, ethnicities are retained. Ethnicities are defined by common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioural or biological traits. Genealogically we are all Afrikan, but we are not all ethnically Afrikan. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 22:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all excuse me for my English! But: I don't understand why you consider Tesla as a Serbian inventor. Well, Tesla was born and bring up in Croatia and is famous his phrase "I'm proud of Serbian origins and of Croatian homeland", therefore it's clear that he considered Croatia as his homeland. At the contrary I ask you: who are the Americans? In your logic almost anybody is American because all are Englishmen, Italian, Frenchmen, Germans, Polishes, etc. The question of Austro-Hungarian Empire is also stupid in my opinion. First of all because the same Tesla said "I'm proud of [..] Croatian homeland" so it's stupid make undo over this. Secondary for example Dante Alighieri is considered on of the biggest Italian author of XIII century, but Italy as unique state is just from XIX century. Now an other example. Mike Bongiorno is one of the most famous Italian showman of television. He was born in New York but his parents was Italian and he feel to be Italian. He always says "My homeland is Italy, in particular Sicily". So if Tesla was proud of his homeland Croatia, why we must delete his will?! Jovan Dučić from Montenegro consider that "Tesla" is an Montenegrin-origin surname so we be able to consider Tesla as a Montenegrin Inventor. Well... with this logic can excavate and excavate in the past of Tesla's family and see how he is an African inventor. The Croatians were always victim of a barbaric serbianization! Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 13:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

What about the Serbian origins you mention Tesla was also proud of? :) Tesla was a Serb by ethnicity who was born in Croatia (well, Austrian Empire actually). Being a Serb is what makes him a Serbian scientist. Being an Italian by ethnicity is what makes Dante an Italian writer. (It has nothing to do with the country borders, just like you explained it yourself with Mike Bongiorno.) Simple, isn't it? --George D. Božović (talk) 18:57, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

How can yo say that Tesla was Serbian by ethinicity if Tesla said that his homeland was Croatia?! (and I repeat that was Croatia and not Austrian Empire, Tesla's words). He was born and bring up in Croatia, in Croatian schools and at last but not least his mother was Croatian. Here we speak only about his father side but never about his mother side. As a mattar of fact his mother was a inventor with very good memory, abilities which Tesla inherited by the mom, as the same Tesla said many times. After the marriage with Tesla's father, she converted herself in orthodox, but the religion can't be synonym of his nationality. About Mike Bongiorno I want to say that he is Italian because he feel himself as Italian. At the contrary all the world would consider him American. For Tesla is the same with the difference that Tesla was also born in Croatia. So Tesla was born in Croatia and felt Croatia as his homeland. In addition his mother was Croatian. So many things versus the idea that he was a Serbian.Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 19:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

No, both of his parents were Serbs. His mother, Đuka Mandić, was daughter of a Serb Orthodox priest -- she did not convert to Orthodoxy after her wedding with Milutin Tesla. Mike Bongiorno truly is Italian if he feels and declares himself so, and thus Tesla was a Serb too, because he also felt so. It seems to me that you make no difference between ethnicity and nationality. You see, nationality (in BCS državljanstvo, not nacionalnost) means belonging to a country, a nation. Tesla's nationality was Austrian because he was born in the Austrian Empire, and later also American ("USA-ian") -- he could not have been born in Croatia because Croatia as a country didn't exist at that time, no matter of his own words. On the other hand, ethnicity (now this is nacionalnost or narodnost, etnička pripadnost in BCS) means belonging to an ethnic group. Tesla was an ethnic Serb. He had Serbian ancestry and he felt and declared himself so... And there you are. Tesla was born in the present-day Croatia, but he was an ethnic Serb. --George D. Božović (talk) 20:29, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure that both parents were Serbs?! In "Nikola Tesla, covjek koji je izumio 20. vijek" I think I read something about his Croatian mother. About Austrian Empire / Croatia is famouse Tesla's phrase "I'm proud of my Serbian origins and of my Croatian homeland". This is the exact phrase said by Tesla wich was also repeted at the commemoration of 150 years from Tesla's death organized by both country: Serbia and Croatia! (So already at the time Tesla was conscious of an idea of Croatia). An other his phrase was always "I'm prooud of my Croatian birth and Serbian people" because his mother was Croatian. I'm quite sure of this. When I'll have the opportunity to read again the book, I'll confimr or no this information. He told about "serbian people" because at the time the descendence was adopted by father-side. At the end you don't replace me about idea of "americans". For you who are the Americans? If we must see their parents and granparents almost nobody would be American, but Englishmen, Franchmen, Germans, Italians, etc. also for etnicity. For example the actress Gabriela Spanic is Venezuelan actress even if his father is Croatian. And this because she born in Venezuela. Dante Alighieri is Italian, even if at his time Italy didin't exist. So also Croatia. In Austrian Empire was a reality the concept of Croatia. At last Croatia enter in Austrian Empire because asked protection to the Austria from turkish invasion. At contary Mike Bongiorno who feel as his homeland Italy, is considered Italian, even if we be able to consider him American (as a mattar of fact exist many Americans that feel themeselves so but that have foreign parents).

Why Tesla after became USA-ian?! Why he can become USA-ian and not Croatian? Being he born and live in Croatia, he adopted Croatian culture. For me it's simple. I can't undestand why he become USA-ian and why he not become Croatian (for being born in it). For me Tesla was Croatian or jugoslavian and not only Serbian.

Sorry my English.Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 21:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

His father was a serbian orthodox priest. And you said yourself "Nikola Tesla, covjek koji je izumio 20. vijek" - Vijek, Serbian word, Stoljece, Croatian word... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.239.66.55 (talk) 14:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


it's a SHAME that a croat is to be listed in here as a serb. shamefull. he was a croat, born in croatia, in a part of the country called Lika, his mother was a native in a small village in Lika. also, the term 'croatian krajina' never egzisted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.29.140.115 (talk) 15:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Is this why the Croatian army chose to partially demolish the village, cleanse the inhabitants (including his relatives), and vandalise his house during the war? Because they were proud of him? Interestingly, Croatia never wanted to claim him before until they realised it would be nice to have him as a Croat. Unfortunately, he isn't, and to make the argument considerably more moot, Croatia was not a country at the time: therefore, ethnically he obviously wasn't Croatian (or are Croatians suddenly members of the Serbian Orthodox Church?), but also he couldn't have been a Croatian national either. Please stop the nonsense.

[edit] Tesla quote "proud of Croatian homeland"

This quote has been moved around, added, removed and added again: "I am proud of my heritage, but I am also proud of my Croatian homeland"... I have searched for the source of Tesla saying this and come up empty. I'm removing it once again. Binksternet (talk) 21:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Cited scholarly sources. This is the situation:

Here in Croatia people often quote Tesla's words, “I am proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian homeland.” Those same words were sued by Vladko Maček in his message of congratulation, which Tesla answered with the same words. To wit, in 1936 the President of HSS (Croatian Peasant Party), Vladko Maček, sent Tesla a congratulatory telegram (some sources say that it was on the occasion of his birthday, others that it was prompted by one of Tesla's discoveries), in which he addressed Tesla as “a son of Serbian stock and of the Croatian homeland.” In his return telegram Tesla thanked him warmly and answered that he was equally proud of his Serbian stock and Croatian homeland. (from hrvatska.hr)

J. D. Redding 21:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Excellent! I've tweaked the reference wording for neutral point of view. Thanks for solidifying the cite. Binksternet (talk) 04:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
It is imperative to clarify what Tesla really viewed as his homeland, and one brief, witty and courteous telegram is hardly a relevant reference, since Tesla himself elaborated it more than once, both in his articles and public speeches. In his Tribute to King Alexander addressed to the Editor of New York Times, he makes it clear that he is a Yugoslavian patriot, and that he considers both Croatia and Croats but a part of the same Yugoslav nation. More than that, he was a firm supporter of Yugoslav Chetniks and young King Peter II at the start of WWII, and was himself buried (i.e.the song was performed as his last wish at his memorial) with the sounds of Tamo Daleko song, which is a WWI Serbian patriotic song which clearly defines Serbia as the homeland.
It is more than clear that his unreasonably often quoted telegram was not a statement or a declaration of any kind, but a courteous reply to the administrator of Croatian province of Yugoslavia, which at the time was believed to belong to both Serbs and Croats, and not any Croatia in the sense of a state of Croatian people, or an independent nation. 77.46.228.11 (talk) 09:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Only because of few laughs I will answer this confirmed puppet. He is never saying that telegram is Croato-Serbian compromise for this article. Reason of this compromise is very simple:We are having internet source ! If we have writen in article that when he has been asked by American border control in 1884 which is his country of origin answer has been Croatia we will have never ending Croato-Serbian edit wars because there is no internet source (but statement is true) !
Explanation:In 1884 Croatia has Kingdom in Union with Hungary which has been in union with Austria (This state is known with name Austro-Hungary). Croatian Krajina where Tesla is born has been restored to Croatia in 1881.--Rjecina (talk) 12:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Nevertheless, the mentioned telegram is no proof that Tesla was in any way a sort of "Croatian patriot", since it is obvious that he was a firm supporter of integral Yugoslavism and King Aleksander, that he didn't even consider Croats and Croatia a nation, but only a tribe. And stop bullying me and deleting my contributions, and accusing me of being someone's "puppet". I have no idea what you are talking about, and if this is the way you treat all users logged in from Serbia's IP pools, your behavior will be reported. In fact, it already is. Marechiel (talk) 19:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nicola Tesla Serbian Inventor?

there should be an edit where it is saying hes a serbian inventor since most of the article contradicts the serbian part, since hes croatian:

Nikola Tesla (Serbian Cyrillic: Никола Тесла) (10 July 1856 – 7 January 1943) was a Serbian inventor, physicist, mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer. Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, Military Frontier, he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire and later became an American citizen.

any 1 who knows how to change, plz do

(i meen if i die and it turns out some one in my fam. tree was spanish or somethin, and i made a famous invention, woulnt the spanish then try to claim me sayin im a spanish person too ?)

else claim tesla for africa, thats where human life is said to have originated from

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitsuruki (talk • contribs) 19:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I do not understand what you are trying to say. He was an ethnic Serb (not an ethnic Croat) born in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in what is now known as Croatia. Keep in mind that Croatia, as we know it today, did not exist at that time: it was the Croatian Krajina Military Frontier. In an empire, ethnicities are retained. Ethnicities are defined by common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioural or biological traits. Genealogically we are all Afrikan, but we are not all ethnically Afrikan. --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 22:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all excuse me for my English! But: I don't understand why you consider Tesla as a Serbian inventor. Well, Tesla was born and bring up in Croatia and is famous his phrase "I'm proud of Serbian origins and of Croatian homeland", therefore it's clear that he considered Croatia as his homeland. At the contrary I ask you: who are the Americans? In your logic almost anybody is American because all are Englishmen, Italian, Frenchmen, Germans, Polishes, etc. The question of Austro-Hungarian Empire is also stupid in my opinion. First of all because the same Tesla said "I'm proud of [..] Croatian homeland" so it's stupid make undo over this. Secondary for example Dante Alighieri is considered on of the biggest Italian author of XIII century, but Italy as unique state is just from XIX century. Now an other example. Mike Bongiorno is one of the most famous Italian showman of television. He was born in New York but his parents was Italian and he feel to be Italian. He always says "My homeland is Italy, in particular Sicily". So if Tesla was proud of his homeland Croatia, why we must delete his will?! Jovan Dučić from Montenegro consider that "Tesla" is an Montenegrin-origin surname so we be able to consider Tesla as a Montenegrin Inventor. Well... with this logic can excavate and excavate in the past of Tesla's family and see how he is an African inventor. The Croatians were always victim of a barbaric serbianization! Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 13:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

What about the Serbian origins you mention Tesla was also proud of? :) Tesla was a Serb by ethnicity who was born in Croatia (well, Austrian Empire actually). Being a Serb is what makes him a Serbian scientist. Being an Italian by ethnicity is what makes Dante an Italian writer. (It has nothing to do with the country borders, just like you explained it yourself with Mike Bongiorno.) Simple, isn't it? --George D. Božović (talk) 18:57, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

How can yo say that Tesla was Serbian by ethinicity if Tesla said that his homeland was Croatia?! (and I repeat that was Croatia and not Austrian Empire, Tesla's words). He was born and bring up in Croatia, in Croatian schools and at last but not least his mother was Croatian. Here we speak only about his father side but never about his mother side. As a mattar of fact his mother was a inventor with very good memory, abilities which Tesla inherited by the mom, as the same Tesla said many times. After the marriage with Tesla's father, she converted herself in orthodox, but the religion can't be synonym of his nationality. About Mike Bongiorno I want to say that he is Italian because he feel himself as Italian. At the contrary all the world would consider him American. For Tesla is the same with the difference that Tesla was also born in Croatia. So Tesla was born in Croatia and felt Croatia as his homeland. In addition his mother was Croatian. So many things versus the idea that he was a Serbian.Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 19:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

No, both of his parents were Serbs. His mother, Đuka Mandić, was daughter of a Serb Orthodox priest -- she did not convert to Orthodoxy after her wedding with Milutin Tesla. Mike Bongiorno truly is Italian if he feels and declares himself so, and thus Tesla was a Serb too, because he also felt so. It seems to me that you make no difference between ethnicity and nationality. You see, nationality (in BCS državljanstvo, not nacionalnost) means belonging to a country, a nation. Tesla's nationality was Austrian because he was born in the Austrian Empire, and later also American ("USA-ian") -- he could not have been born in Croatia because Croatia as a country didn't exist at that time, no matter of his own words. On the other hand, ethnicity (now this is nacionalnost or narodnost, etnička pripadnost in BCS) means belonging to an ethnic group. Tesla was an ethnic Serb. He had Serbian ancestry and he felt and declared himself so... And there you are. Tesla was born in the present-day Croatia, but he was an ethnic Serb. --George D. Božović (talk) 20:29, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure that both parents were Serbs?! In "Nikola Tesla, covjek koji je izumio 20. vijek" I think I read something about his Croatian mother. About Austrian Empire / Croatia is famouse Tesla's phrase "I'm proud of my Serbian origins and of my Croatian homeland". This is the exact phrase said by Tesla wich was also repeted at the commemoration of 150 years from Tesla's death organized by both country: Serbia and Croatia! (So already at the time Tesla was conscious of an idea of Croatia). An other his phrase was always "I'm prooud of my Croatian birth and Serbian people" because his mother was Croatian. I'm quite sure of this. When I'll have the opportunity to read again the book, I'll confimr or no this information. He told about "serbian people" because at the time the descendence was adopted by father-side. At the end you don't replace me about idea of "americans". For you who are the Americans? If we must see their parents and granparents almost nobody would be American, but Englishmen, Franchmen, Germans, Italians, etc. also for etnicity. For example the actress Gabriela Spanic is Venezuelan actress even if his father is Croatian. And this because she born in Venezuela. Dante Alighieri is Italian, even if at his time Italy didin't exist. So also Croatia. In Austrian Empire was a reality the concept of Croatia. At last Croatia enter in Austrian Empire because asked protection to the Austria from turkish invasion. At contary Mike Bongiorno who feel as his homeland Italy, is considered Italian, even if we be able to consider him American (as a mattar of fact exist many Americans that feel themeselves so but that have foreign parents).

Why Tesla after became USA-ian?! Why he can become USA-ian and not Croatian? Being he born and live in Croatia, he adopted Croatian culture. For me it's simple. I can't undestand why he become USA-ian and why he not become Croatian (for being born in it). For me Tesla was Croatian or jugoslavian and not only Serbian.

Sorry my English.Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 21:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

There is no problem with your English, but his mother was most certainly not Croatian -- in fact, herself a daughter of a Serbian Orthodox priest. I've heard this myth of him being half ethnically Croatian a few times now, but his has absolutely no basis in reality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.21.66 (talk) 19:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
His father was a serbian orthodox priest. And you said yourself "Nikola Tesla, covjek koji je izumio 20. vijek" - Vijek, Serbian word, Stoljece, Croatian word... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.239.66.55 (talk) 14:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


it's a SHAME that a croat is to be listed in here as a serb. shamefull. he was a croat, born in croatia, in a part of the country called Lika, his mother was a native in a small village in Lika. also, the term 'croatian krajina' never egzisted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.29.140.115 (talk) 15:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Is this why the Croatian army chose to partially demolish the village, cleanse the inhabitants (including his relatives), and vandalise his house during the war? Because they were proud of him? Interestingly, Croatia never wanted to claim him before until they realised it would be nice to have him as a Croat. Unfortunately, he isn't, and to make the argument considerably more moot, Croatia was not a country at the time: therefore, ethnically he obviously wasn't Croatian (or are Croatians suddenly members of the Serbian Orthodox Church?), but also he couldn't have been a Croatian national either. Please stop the nonsense.

[edit] Ethnic origins dispute

A section has been removed by user Binksternet, without bringing the problem up on the talk page. Please stick to procedure, thank you. Also, see reference provided. --Danielsavoiu (talk) 15:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

On March 11, I removed the Telegramme quote because it was unreferenced. I said so in the edit summary, and I brought it up on the Talk page. What part of procedure didn't I follow? At any rate, now that the Telegramme quote is referenced, I have no problem with its presence in the article. Binksternet (talk) 16:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I think you mean this diff which is a section deletion made on March 8 by User:72.144.183.34 directly after a minor edit of mine. Binksternet (talk) 16:34, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I must apologise. I must have mis-clicked the diff. Cheers, Danielsavoiu (talk) 19:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
No sweat. :-) Binksternet (talk) 22:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian American - What problem do Croats have with that?

Serbian Americans are American citizens of Serbian ethnic origin. Tesla wasn't a Serbian inventor, physicist etc. simply because he didn't live and work in Serbia. He lived and worked in the USA, which make him American. More specifically, Serbian American, since he was active member of Serbian American ethnic community. I simply don't see any reason why is this fact being deleted from the introduction, most notably from Croatian participants? Jealousy that outside Croatian national borders he isn't recognized as "Croatian"? We Serbs from Serbia and all around the world take a great pride in our kinsman Tesla, and see no reason that this fact shouldn't be mentioned whenever possible. Tesla wasn't just an American of Serbian ethnic origin, but an immigrant who always cherished his ethnic roots, an active member of Serbian American community, and in constant contact with his people and his state in Europe. He wrote and spoke in Serbian, and at the memorial after he died, he was paid his last homage as Serbian American and with intonation of Serbian patriotic songs. Marechiel (talk) 10:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Here's what problem I have with that: categorization. If Tesla belongs to Category:Serbian-Americans, e.g. Monica Seles would then belong to Category:Hungarian-Americans. And, apparently, she does. (I don't say it makes sense, but at least it's consistent.) But here's the rub: if Monica Seles doesn't belong to Category:Hungarian tennis players - and she doesn't - then Tesla doesn't belong to Category:Serbian inventors. In the "fooian fooers" hierarchy of categories, "fooian" invariably refers to nationality, not ethnicity. So we have this situation in which Wikipedia categorization rules are blatantly broken. If I went now and deleted Category:Serbian inventors from the article, it would get reverted in a second, never mind the appeals to MoS. Why? You said it best: because "great pride" takes precedence over everything. "Big pride" is always stronger. GregorB (talk) 16:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] User "Rjecina" deleting comments from this page

And why on Earth is participating in Talk Page considered as "vandalism"? These comments had now been deleted by user Equazcion, under the accusation of vandalism. Is vandalism stating that Tesla was Serbian American, which he was, and that he was a Yugoslav, and not Croatian patriot, supporting it with actual facts and links? Or is vandalism deleting Serbian references, and preventing the presentation of facts? Marechiel (talk) 10:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Banned editor is not allowed to edit. After you will be blocked again I will delete all your changes :))))--Rjecina (talk) 12:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Your behavior is reported to Administrators. You shouldn't and mustn't delete constructive and argumentative comments from Talk Page if you aren't capable of dealing with them, and second, don't you dare threaten and mock me. I have never been banned from Wikipedia, nor have ever been accused and/or committed any act of vandalism, and the IP's I signed my recent edits with, are from Serbian Telekom's IP-pool used by app. 60% Internet users in Serbia. Marechiel (talk) 19:39, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
In your own words you have broken wikipedia rules ! You have used 3 different accounts to edit this article in 25 hours [3] . There is no need to say anything more--Rjecina (talk) 07:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

There is no indication Marechiel is a sock, as far as I can see. Rjecina and Equaczion, please stop rolling him back; this is, by default, a legitimate user. Marechiel, please stop hitting back at Rjecina with personal attacks (even though your anger may be understandable). This was a misunderstanding, everybody please get over it and return to discussing the article normally and civilly. Also, please don't edit logged-out when editing controversial articles. Plus, everybody please stop edit-warring. Everybody is reminded of WP:ARBMAC, again. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I have stoped all edit warring (in my thinking vandal protection) after Marechiel has stoped to edit from IP address and started to edit with his real name, but this SPA account even after your warning can't stop to edit from IP address [4] .
Only reason for edits of this SPA account is to write how everybody is Serbian. Because I will not here comment his other edits I will speak only about Nikola Tesla. Maybe I am mistaking but best NPOV solution is to say that he has been inventor and nothing about his nationality. This is only solution to stop future nationalistic edit wars which has been solved with article version before Marechiel edits.
If we look other similar articles we can even say:"Nikola Tesla was a Croatian born inventor ...." (examples:Albert Einstein, Fritz Haber) but this version will only create edit warring like today version of this SPA account. --Rjecina (talk) 08:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Puppet question is solved (and I am not happy). Marechiel is "only" having bad habit to edit from IP address. What now ? I am interested in propositions about this article to avoid new nationalistic edit warring.--Rjecina (talk) 12:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I am glad that I am finally proclaimed "clean". I only had to spit my blood out proving it, but never mind that. In order, not to stop "nationalistic edit wars", but to make the intro as accurate and truthful as possible, I strongly suggest that the "Serbian American" reference stays. My reasons and arguments are the following: 1) Tesla indeed was an American scientist of Serbian ethnicity, which is the exact meaning of the phrase Serbian American. 2) Tesla was not only Serbian American by birth and citizenship, but also an active member of Serbian community in the USA, and a devoted Serbian patriot until the day he died. 3) Since last 70-80 years, and especially after his death, Tesla's been admired and considered as a national figure of great importance among Serbs and in Serbia. It my sound exotic to persons coming from great nations, such as American, French or German, but Tesla is, among Milankovitch and Pupin, a rare figure by whom Serbs are recognized and mentioned as a nation. This is not a thing to easily dismiss, primarily for the sake of Tesla himself, his devotion and his beliefs, and secondarily because every now and then new users will try to put the Serbian American reference back: he is accepted as such in all official literature. 4) Last but not least, most protests against presenting him as Serbian American come from Croatia, which has made Tesla its "brand" since last year. I am not trying to sound "racistic" here, but let's face it: this shows as primarily a Serbian-Croatian issue, with little interest outside this ex-Yugoslav circle, but let's dig into it. Serbs and Croats were at war which ended very recently from now. Tesla was a Serb from Croatia. Serbs from Croatia waged war in WWII and in the 1990's against Croatian state. Serbs were expelled as 'rebels', Tesla's living descendants among them (see the article about Tesla's great-grandniece in the text). On the other side, Tesla is and accepted and recognized figure of global significance. From Croatian POV, Tesla was born "in Croatia", was "loyal to it", and "had nothing to do with Serbia". Combining this with post-war emotions, national disputes and quarrels, we get that Tesla is being presented as "Croatian" as a par-statement that he was "Serbian", and as a compromise, a suggestion of "let's not make this thing important" is offered. And the truth is that Tesla was indeed born in the then Serb-populated and today Croat-populated territory that is 150 years later part of modern Croatian state, that he was a devoted Serb and Serbian patriot, that he was a citizen of the USA, and that he himself and world media of the time presented him as Serbian American, a category similar to Italian Americans, Native Americans etc.
And again, I will go back to Rjecina. I am surprised that he qualifies putting Serbian reference to famous Serbs as "nationalistic", while at the same time he goes and presents them as "Croats", "Bosniaks" etc. This is yet another issue. A confirmed Serb and part of Serbian literature exclusevely, by his own words, statements, beliefs and final testament, Meša Selimović, is posthumously presented by Rjecina as "Yugoslavian" of "Bosniak parentage" (note: Bosniak nation didn't even exist then by that name). One Josif Pančić, a Serbian national figure of great importance, is by him a "Serbo-Croatian". Not Serbian of Croatian ethnicity, not Serbian of Croatian this or that, but "Serbo-Croatian" in the national sense, although there is absolutely no reference that the person ever named or considered himself a Croat, but did as a Serb. And now we have Tesla, a newly proclaimed Croatian "brand", and a user from Croatia, a witch-hunter of Serbian trolls, with specific interest in fighting against "Serbian POV" who thinks it's "the most objective solution" that we shouldn't talk about Tesla's nationality at all, since Croats can as well claim that he was Croatian (sic!), so we'd better put this thing under the carpet for the sake of benefit of the community.
I apologize for naming the (now removed) article "Tesla was Serbian American - what problem do Croats have with that", but I think I am not wrong to still think that the only people who will feel the need to remove Tesla's Serbian reference will come mostly from Croatia. In my experience, I haven't yet found anyone else who would have problem with that. And if I am mistaken about Rjecina and his motives, I have to repeat that he didn't delete my input on the basis of constructive nature of its content, but solely on the basis of the IP they came from. He also kept addressing me in disrespectful and insulting manner, disregarding arguments I presented and just brutally deleting them. Also, I haven't yet seen any apology from him for taking away my time to retype things I already wrote, for mocking me and threatening me that he will have my account banned, and for spreading lies among others that I am a banned user he's had contact with. And if editing articles (and I think I wasn't so far destructive in any way) with obtained IP's is forbidden, I think there's an option to prevent this in articles. I did so only because of practical reasons - I have my password cached in this browser and this OS, but I happen to use others (both browsers and OS's) on my computer which I often change. And again, I didn't "confirm" that I was editing from "3 different accounts", but as I already explained, Telekom Srbija gives IP's dynamically, and not only me, but all users, obtain a different one every time they turn on their computer, or reset their modem. Sorry for the long input. Marechiel (talk) 22:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tesla ancestry

Because of Marechiel demands (ultimatum ?) for definition with which article will start we can open other questions about his "Serbian" ancestry.

  • 1) During speach on Tesla funeral New York mayor LaGuardia has described Tesla as the son of a Greek clergyman.
  • 2) Tesla's father had been ordained at what had originally been a Greek Orthodox Church, not a Serbian Orthodox church.
  • 3) Tesla did not attend a Serbian school because none existed at the time in Croatia
  • 4) Tesla identified himself as a Croat on his arrival at the Castle Garden Immigration office in Manhattan in 1884, even though the Croatian region of his birth was administered from Austria and not directly from Croatia at the time Tesla was living there
  • 5) Tesla's ashes had not been held at an American Serbian church ground, nor was there ever a bust of Tesla by the Serbian church
  • 6) if Tesla had really been Serbian, would it not be the case that the Serbian-born scientist and Serbian activist (and one-time Serbian Ambassador in US) M. Pupin in America would have come to his aid in 1911 ?
  • 7) The main source of claims to Tesla's Serbian ancestry seem to have originated from Sava N. Kosanovic, a member of the Yugoslav Mission to the USA in New York during WWII.
  • 8) Tesla's sister had married a Serb, and Sava Kosanovic was their son suggesting perhaps that Tesla's association with Serbian ethnicity occurred indirectly through marriage of his relatives, and not through his ancestors.

I am really interested to here answers about this statements...--Rjecina (talk) 07:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Many of those "statements" are easily and with solid backup proved totally untrue:
  • 1) Here is the audio of Mayor LaGuardia's eulogy: Mayor LaGuardia's eulogy (audio), and here is the text he read: Mayor LaGuardia's eulogy (text). Not even once is his father mentioned. Twice is as the land of Tesla's birth stated the state of Yugoslavia, and not Croatia. So, you lied. Lie #1. (I said "lie", because being from Croatia you know very well what you are talking about).
  • 2) A dishonest manipulation made up to confuse people who are not from Serbia and Croatia. Serbian Orthodox Church had been persistently named as Greek, Greek-schismatic, Greek-non-unified by Catholic sources in Austria-Hungary. Even today, Greek is a synonym for Eastern-rite in many languages. For instance, Ruthenians in Croatia are even today called as "Greek-Catholics", because of their practice of Eastern (Byzantine) rite.
Tesla's father was a Serbian Orthodox priest. His episcopacy was a spiritual heir of Peć Patriarchy, and not Constantinople Greek Patriarchy. The language of his services and rites was Serbian redaction of Church-Slavonic, and not Greek. Also, Tesla calls his father's mother tongue 'Serbian', and folk poetry he was taught 'Serbian national poetry' (see: Nikola Tesla's Autobiography).
So, this supposed 'Greek' has a Serbian name, makes services in Serbian, speaks Serbian as his mother tongue, collects a library of Serbian translations of literature classics and teaches his son Serbian national poetry as his own. Lie #2.
  • 3) Croats and Serbs at the time mostly attended the same schools in Croatia, and this whole "argument" #3 is insignificant. Tesla attended classes in Serbian (called by Croats Croatian, but in the essence the same language). A subtheses: will you this pathetically go around and delete Croatian reference for those Croats who attended Hungarian, Austrian or Polish schools? I highly doubt.
This argument #3 is irrelevant for the discussion.
  • 4) Tesla never identified himself as Croat, and this is lie #3. Here's what Tesla says about his ethnicity on June 1st 1892, in Serbian capital Belgrade: "Ako se te moje nade ispune, najslađa misao biće mi da je to djelo jednog Srbina. Živjelo Srpstvo!" (If these hopes of mine fulfill, the sweetest thought to me will be that it was the work of a Serb. Long live Serbdom!) BRANIMIR JOVANOVIĆ, "Nikola Tesla", Belgrade 1997. Lie #3.
  • 5) Irrelevant. Tesla was a citizen of the USA. Serbian American, but American nevertheless.
  • 6) A pitiful attempt. Tesla was in a quarrel with Michael Pupin and they didn't speak with each other. They finally made up when Pupin was dying. I don't know what are you trying to prove by this? That members of the same nation should be excellent friends in order to be countrymen? Ridiculous. By that logic, Americans aren't of the same nation, since they had a civil war.
  • 7) Lie #4. Tesla's Serbdom had been celebrated in Kingdom Serbia and Kingdom Yugoslavia, long before Sava Kosanović was even born. Tesla speaks of it, Montenegrin officials speak of it, Serbian officials speak of it, Yugoslavian officials speak of it, and all that happened before Sava Kosanović came into focus of Yugoslavian public life as its prominent figure. Yet another Tesla's quote from the mentioned Jovanović's book: "Ja sam, kao što vidite i čujete ostao Srbin i preko mora, gde se ispitivanjima bavim. To isto treba da budete i vi i da svojim znanjem i radom podižete slavu Srpstva u svetu." (As you can see and hear, I remained a Serb far across the seas, where I do my research. This also what you should remain, and to raise the glory of Serbdom by your knowledge and work). An excerpt of Tesla's speech to Serbian University students in Belgrade, June 1st 1892.
  • 8) Again a lie, and an extension of the Lie #4. A pitiful attempt to construct a conspiracy theory about Tesla's nephew "inventing" Tesla's ethnicity in the second half of 20th century. You should read articles and speeches made by Tesla himself during his life. And here's something to you, that you kept deleting wherever I tried to put it: Nikola Tesla: Tribute to King Alexander. Here you should read that Tesla, beside considering himself a Serb, doesn't even consider Croats as a nation, but only a tribe, and Croatia not a state, but only a province. And here's a picture of Tesla in his last days, supporting the Commander-In-Chief of Chetniks, King Peter II: teslast9.jpg.
There are numerous references where Tesla called himself a Serb, both in America, Serbia and Austria-Hungary, references of naming his mother tongue Serbian and ever-repeating that he was proud of being a Serb. Tesla was not only of Serbian ethnicity - he was a Serbian patriot.
But, what difference does that all make, when this Budalcina - pardon me, Rjecina - is caught in several lie. First, he claims that New Your Mayor LaGuardia said that Tesla's father was an ethnic Greek! Simply false, and everyone can listen and read LaGuardia's eulogy, and he never mentions such a thing, but only mentions Yugoslavia twice, as Tesla's homeland. Tesla's country were the USA, and his ethnicity Serbian. Second, Rjecina tries to present Tesla's community in Croatia as ethnic Greek, solely on the basis that all Eastern-rite churches were called "Greek" in Austria. Third, Rjecina lies about Tesla never calling him a Serb, and calling him an ethnic Croat. I put two very important quotes from Tesla's public speeches in Serbia, one in the public, and one to Serbian students, and also Tesla's tribute to assassinated King Alexander I of Yugoslavia, where he clearly states that he doesn't even consider Croats and Croatia as a nation, but only a tribe and a province.
I think the lies and agenda are exposed. Tesla was an American citizen of Serbian ethnicity and Serbian immigrant himself, also a Serbian patriot until the sad day he died, which exactly makes him Serbian American, even more than Mila Jovovich or Carl Malden who are de facto naturalized Americans. Tesla wasn't. Marechiel (talk) 19:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
  • 1) You argument is false because you are using Mayor LaGuardia's eulogy from 10 January to defeat Mayor LaGuardia speach from Tesla funeral which has been on 12 January !
  • 2) Yes. Site Rastko is know for neutrality (this has been sarcasm)
  • 3) You have accepted that Tesla is product of his genius and Croatian education
  • 4) It is funny why he has declared on US border control that he is from Croatia ?
  • 5) Really irrelevant ?
  • 6) Fact that he has not recieved help from Serbia embassy during hours of need is not important ?
  • 7) Now I will say irrelevant. When his comments has been asked by Serbia he has spoken about Serbdom. When he is asked from Croatia he has spoken about Serbian origins and Croatian homeland.
  • 8) Do you want to say because of meeting with Yugoslav king that he has supported Dražu Mihajlovića which is war criminal and quisling ??
It is time that I end discussion with Marechiel and his POV thinking. Maybe I am mistaking but Marechiel is thinking that Tesla is Serbian inventor because he has been proud of serbian origins. On other side in Marechiel thinking fact that Tesla has been proud of his Croatian homelands is not important !! This is clearly POV position because of which I am changing again text in article on neutral comment that he has been inventor.
In summer of 2007 I have called RFC to defeat POV position of few editors which has not allowed that we write how Tesla is born in Croatia. If POV reverting about this continue I will call new RFC with question if we will write that he has been Serbian inventor or only inventor. After that all discussions will end.--Rjecina (talk) 07:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Rjecina, to an outside observer, you look to be spewing not much more than vitriol. Your response if frustrated and you offer absolutely no sources of your own --- I would, for one, love to hear the audio, or at least a transcript from a non tripod-like website of the supposed January 12th eulogy by the mayor in which Tesla is referred to as a Greek. If you cannot provide at least that, I would say that your credibility is seriously at stake. Rastko similarly looks to be a Serbian site, but you offer absolutely no proof that any of the sourcing here is fraudulent; the tribute to the King looks to be especially damning leaving little doubt as to who Tesla supported. You similarly dodge #7 quite inexpertly. Furthermore, your repetition of supposed facts without absolutely any evidence and sourcing is problematic, to say the least. --User: Daniel Monaghan

[edit] Tesla was not Serbian Ortodox church member

At the time of the Tesla's birth Serbian Ortodox church simply was not in Croatia and Bosnia&Herzegovina , neither Montenegro. At the time of the Tesla's birth All Eastern rite churches were called just Eastern-rite , Greek-rite church , Greek non-united church etc. Not Serbian Ortodox church simply because SOC had no jurisdiction over them. Neither over Montenegrin Orthodox Church which was autocephaly.

When 1918 was Kingdom of Yugoslavia(then Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes) SOC annexed (as Serbia has annexed Montenegro) and all churches and monasteries that belonged to the Montenegrin Orthodox Church became property of SOC.

Moreover, SOC declared jurisdiction for all Eastern-rite religions inside Yugoslavia.

  • Tesla declared most of the time that he was from Croatia . Sometimes he was saying that he wa from Lika.Not from Austria, Austro-Hungary neither some fictional Krajina.
  • Military frontier was not "serb-populated" . Majority of its populatation were Croats.

--Anto (talk) 07:25, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

Tesla should not be referred to as a "subject" of the Austrian Empire. He could be called a resident/citizen or something else. "Subject" implies that he was some sort of slave.

"Subject" is the technical term for a citizen/resident of a monarchical state (of which the Austrian Empire was one), and has no such connotations. Nagakura shin8 08:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Nikola Tesla was an Istro-Romanian not an serb, this opinion was widely believed by american historians but now we know that he was an Istro-Romanian, as it is on the Romanian Wikipedia. Please change ! AlexanderXVI 22:39, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about man?! Nikola Tesla was a Serb and that is a known fact and nobody from Romania or any other country should be attampting to alter the facts! Both his parents were ethnic serbs! And what is an Istro-Romanian ?! We might as well pronounce him as an Afro-American.
Actually, no, Istro-Romanians are an ethnic minority in Croatia. Unfortunately there's absolutely no evidence Tesla was one; he described himself as a Serb and his passport said Austrian, since he was from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Nagakura shin8 (talk) 21:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

The Istro-Romanians are a branch of the Wallach people. Nikola Tesla was in fact of wallach orthodox ancestry. By that time all the wallach that were orthodox (almost 95% of the wallachs) were considered as serbians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.154.155 (talk) 18:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Let's please stop the nonsense. His father was a priest for the Serbian Orthodox Church and his mother the daughter of a Serbian Orthodox priest. It's incredible someone is trying to pass him off as anything else but Serbian, or more accurately, Serbian-American, since his ethnic affiliation is crystal clear. Finally, he self-identified as a Serb, which is, of course, the litmus test. The Istro-Romanian nonsense has no place in the article either, and presents some further wishful thinking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.253.216 (talk) 16:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

There's no doubt he was of serbian ethnicity but it's a fact that both of his parents had wallachian blood. Tesla was a croatian of serbian ethnicity. Tesla said that he was very proud of his serbian ethnicity and that he was also very proud of his croatian homeland, period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.42.162.195 (talk) 22:14, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Personality

"he probably disclaimed his Jewish ancestry, playing as atheist"

With all the debate on Tesla's ancestry, this claim needs some support. Where does this opinion come from? Is "Tesla" a Jewish last name? Tesla's parents were both Orthodox Christians and he was Serbian or Croatian. Since the article also claims that he is anti-semitic I believe more explanation is needed. Why is he being painted as a self loathing member of a religion when most evidence says otherwise?

Kwijibo950 02:22, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Tesla's lineage from both sides of the family is Serbian Orthodox, his father being a Serbian priest and his mother being the daughter of one. He wasn't remotely Jewish. Or Croatian for that matter: prior to this war, more than 10% of Croatia's inhabitants were Serbian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.235.253.216 (talk) 16:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Serb/Croat arguments

Tesla was a Serb, born in Croatia. The article is not objective, and I think objectivity is important. One harmless example of that is presenting banknote of Serbia with his image and not presenting the croatian one. Apparently this wiki page is edited by serbian wiki page, and that's why it's not objective. I suggest that the page should be edited by another wiki project. That's how we will stop counting Tesla's blood cells and manipulating with the history. Give Tesla in the hands of neutral party. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.35.251 (talk) 12:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

- Tesla was a Serb and only because some other politicians from some other country where he was born are trying to associate Tesla's name to their country doesnt make him non-Serb. If this is not clear to you guys than do some research on his past and than you will see who is right and who is wrong(and what is true and whats not) rather than just making a vague decision's while being neutral. Very accurate article here on Wiki.

-Tesla was of wallach - serb heritage that's clear. He was born in Croatia, that's clear too. I think we should stick to his words: "i am proud of my heritage but i am also proud of my croatian homeland". That's the end of it guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.154.155 (talk) 18:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Tesla was ethnically Serb, but considered his home to be Croatia. "I am proud of my Serbian heritage and of my Croatian homeland." That's what he himself said, thus, it would be fair to consider him "Serbo-Croatian". unsigned comment added by 78.1.94.211 (talk) 19:01, April 21, 2008 (UTC)