Talk:Nicole Kidman

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
This article is supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to actors and filmmakers on Wikipedia.
Flag
Portal
 Nicole Kidman is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
B This article has been rated as B-class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as high-importance on the importance scale.
This article is supported by WikiProject Australian music. See also P:AUSMUSIC.
Assessment comments
Archive
Archives
  1. Archive 1

Contents

[edit] chanel No5 replaced

thats not a fact still just a rumor no one has said that adurey is the face of chanel yet at all untill they do its rumor shes doing the chanel bio film but so far not that —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.206.205 (talk) 04:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kidman04.jpg

The photo at the top of Wikipedia's page about Nicole Kidman may not be of Nicole Kidman. Although it has a resemblance to Nicole Kidman it is clearly not Nicole Kidman. The colour of the eyes is wrong to begin with, Nicole Kidamn has blue eye this picture has dark brown. If any one has an actual photo of Nicole Kidman could you please update the photo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.225.88 (talk) 13:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American Born

she is the most wonderful actress in the world!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.29.1.176 (talk) 22:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to change American born Australian actress, to Australian-American actress, as she was born in the United States, which makes her a US citizen, although i believe she has dual citizenship. Mac Domhnaill 03:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

No, she was just born there while her parents were there breifly. That would be like claiming Patric Mcgoonan was an American because he was there. She was only born there for a short time and easily could have been born in Australia. She has always called herself an Australian and never once called herself an American. She is not American. It would be like calling Olivia Mary de Havilland Japanese because she was born there. You can call her American born, but not an American. --unsigned comments from Sliat 1981 (talk)

Actually, if you check you will find that she didn't move to Australia until she was four. --Yamla 21:08, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

She has never ever once refered herslef as an American. I know you'd like to claim her as one of your own, but face facts. She's Australian, NOT American.

The facts are she is an Academy awarding winning actress, born in the US, lived here until she was four, and now has dual citizenship and residences in both countries. These are the facts, which is what we deal with here at Wiki. Not supposition. If you have a reputable source (most ezines and mags are not reputable) stating she is in fact Australian,then cite your source. Reference in the article to her being "Australian" needs to cited. If you state she is, you need to cite it. Lack of reference to her being either does not. User:Sliat 1981 has continually disrupted the editing process despite the history of this article and the consensus. Continual disruption means they should be taken to task. The only claim being made is by User:Sliat 1981, and stating dual citizenship does not make the claim, as this user suggests ("you'd like to claim her as one of your own", as stated above), that she is an "American". The facts are stated in dual citizenship. Amerindianarts 17:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

But how do you tell her nationality? How do you tell nationality while we're at it? In one country it's the country of birth, in another it's heritage and in some others it's the citizenship. Who's right? I'm Israeli even though I wasn't born here. That's how I feel and that's how it's considered here. Anyway, her nationality should be what she said it is. Not anything else. Northern 12:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Australia does not recognise dual citizenship like the . USA or New Zealand You can be Australian by birth or Australian by naturalisation. For the purposes of this article it is may be more correct to refer to her as an American-Australian (naturalised Australian of American ancestry) Proberton 05:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Since April 2002 Australia does recognise dual citizenship - see Australian citizenship#Dual Citizenship. -- JackofOz 05:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

The US does not recognize dual citizenship. "A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bullydog2 (talk • contribs) 03:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, she was born an Australian citizen because her parents had Australian citizenship. She was also born an American citizen because she was born in Hawaii. She has been a dual American and Australian citizen from birth, and naturalisation never had anything to do with it. But she considers herself Australian first and foremost, as does the rest of the world. -- JackofOz 05:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rumored cause of divorce

I read somewhere that Cruise divorced her because she was pregnant with Russel Crowe's child (and that this became news in Europe when Crowe published a song about the matter). Is there any truth to this?

[edit] gay icon again

Why has this article been put in Category:Gay icons, again? The word "gay" and "icon" do not appear anywhere in the article. There is no text to support this claim. There should be a quote of somebody somewhere saying Kidman is a "gay icon". Wikipedia should not be a publisher of original opinion. Also, please don't respond by citing sources here. If sources exist, please put them into the actual article. Until the sources are included, this article is going against verifiability policy. If it's important to say she is a gay icon, then its important to actually say it in the body of the article. Also note, being a gay icon, means more then having some gay fans (anybody with a couple dozen fans, probably has gay fans, after all). --Rob 07:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conspiracy theory

One thing that I feel should be mentioned would be the fact that she is a verified XY female. Thats the reason why her children are adopted btw, she is infertile and doesnt have a uterus/ovaries. 67.182.22.63 23:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, right. Please stop vandalising Wikipedia with your insane theories. That's what blogs are for.--Yamla 00:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
It is not an insane theory. XY female are such because they are biologically male but lack a functional gene for testosterone receptors in various organs. They are physiologically no different from any normal woman, other than the fact that they do not have a functioning reproductive system. Some people believe quite firmly that some well-known people such as Nicole Kidman or Jamie Lee Curtis are in fact, such XY females. Putting a vandalism tag on my comment page for putting forth a theory on a talk page is a bit over the top isnt it? 67.182.22.63 01:16, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Please provide a citation that verifies this "fact". Also, please provide some explanation on how Ms. Kidman could become pregnant if she is in fact a verified XY female. I really do not think the vandalism tags were unwarranted here. --Yamla 01:54, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
The wikipedia article on XY Female states that such a person can become pregnant via embryo implantation. I wholehearted agree that a reliable reference would be needed for this theory to be included in the article of course. Gomez2002 (talk) 12:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

There are two related syndromes that cause geneticaly normal MALES to appear as female. One is where the receptors do not function. The other is where they do function, but the body lacks an enzyme necessary to utilse the androgen. Either way, the body has a blind vagina and takes on a degree of female secondary sexual characteristics at puberty. However they are MEN who appear as women, as there is no such thing as an "XY female." They have to appear as women because there is no way to make their body respond to any form of masculinisation whatsoever. JBDay 23:56, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I resisted commenting on this earlier. Now it's 3 am and I'm punchy so... I guess Keith has cleared that Urban myth up. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:11, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit]  ?????

BMX Bandits is probably her best movie to date as it required little or no acting talent

-S
  • If this is an expert opinion then you would think the writer would have the balls to sign their name.Amerindianarts 04:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wedding paragraph

The paragraph about her wedding with Keith Urban contains personal remarks and conversational style. Needless to say, it is - sporadically - not well-written. Also, who cares enough for ALL the details of her wedding? The paragraph provides way too many information and it is far larger in comparison to other paragraphs that contain more interesting and vital information. It should contain less information. I wonder how the author doesn't mention her underwear brand (worn especially for the wedding), must have slipped him/her! I seriously think her acting work and her life with Tom Cruise (if we need to consider some "personal life" information) are far more important as it is, than the lengthy description of her wedding. Some people just maniacally write down huge amounts of very recent information, as if Wikipedia is E!News or something.


Xanthi22 21:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


  • You have got that right. Too many star-gazers out there in Wikiland thinking these celeb articles are their big chance to write a gossip column. The fact that they were married in Sidney is sufficient. The rest is unencyclopedic and nothing more than idle chit-chat. Amerindianarts 23:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
    • But at least it used E!Online and People Magazine as reputable references! ;) I edited a week ago to 'In 2006 Kidman married Keith Urban' but it was revereted. Maybe I'll try again soon... --Steve 23:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Doesn't matter. The edit was poorly written and the info was not encyclopedic. This is an encyclopedia format, not an E-news or People magazine. The fact that they were married is sufficient for an encyclopedia format, the rest is not. Any future edits that are not encyclopedic (meaning they don't conform to Wiki policy) will be edited out. Amerindianarts 00:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
You missed my sarcasm of E!Online and People as reputable sources! I've edited the personal life section down to the basic facts. --Steve 00:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American Debut

Dead Calm was a Warner Bros film, directed by Philip Noyce, so how can the article talk about Days of Thunder as her American debut? --Steve 00:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish ancestry?

According to the NNDB, her father is of Jewish ancestry?[1] Is that true? I've never seen any reliable sources for it. It could or probably is more NNDB crap, but if anyone knows for sure.... Mad Jack 07:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC) Nope. She does not pray to Moses.

not impossible as there has been significant Jewish immigration to Australia. Arniep 03:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

she is pro israel that is for sure--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 13:45, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Whatever the case, "Jewish blood" does not read well and it should also not be in the header imho. It should be under early life, family background or the like if mentioned at all. In the past I would have removed this unless it could be clearly established by numerous reliable sources. I will not edit this now however.--Tom 21:42, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Quite correct. It's a weird mistake for the NNDB to make. Not because they're reliable or anything like that - they've made a boatload of mistakes. It's just that they usually copy other peoples' mistakes and not make up their own ones. Anyway, I was the one who added the info currently in the article (i.e. her mother's Scottish ancestry, etc.) from a book bio of Kidman. I couldn't find anything else. If anyone has a reliable source for any other ancestry, great. If not, not. As for being pro-Israel, a ton of people who are not Jewish at all are pro-Israel, including half the people who signed the petition or letter that Kidman did in August. Mad Jack 06:51, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
'Hollywood' tends to know on which side their bread is buttered! And I removed the sentence from the lead until a citation that Nicole Kidman herself identifies in any way. And then it can go in the body somewhere. --Steve (Slf67) talk 08:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian/American

I think this article should be locked until mediation...etc sorts out this issue over if she is to be listed as Australian or American.

But here is some food for thought - Russell Crowe is listed as "New Zealand-Australian film actor" --Mikecraig 01:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The same is said of country singer Keith Urban. Either American or Australian makes a claim that is not really lead paragraph material, but if she considers herself as Australian it can be intergrated in the main body where her dual nationality is again mentioned. Amerindianarts 03:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
There are always poor articles that can be used as evidence for most failings of Wikipedia ;) However, in this case, Kidman is a dual national, and the article lists her nationalities. That is encyclopaedic and those are the facts. Describing her as Australian without any citation is against WP:BLP. Most Autralians see her as a fellow Australian, as they (cautiously) embrace anyone who has made in big in the US, but the fact she holds a US passport is probably unknown to most. --Steve 23:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, it's true of some, but not of Kidman, who was enthusiastically embraced long before she embarked upon a US career. She was born to an Australian family, temporarily living in the US when she was born and lived for her first four years, and she was raised in Australia, and began her career in Australia. It's no stretch of the imagination that she would identify as Australian, despite the circumstance of her birth. Would "American-born Australian actress" work? The dual nationality situation is mentioned, and this provides further clarification. As User:Amerindianarts noted, her self-identity can be integrated into the main article (with a source backing up her own viewpoint as an Australian.) It shouldn't be too hard to find a quote/source where Kidman explains how she views herself and this could also be included. Someone else pointed out that Olivia de Havilland was born in Japan, but is not described as a Japanese actress. This is a similar situation. Rossrs 23:45, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Without reverting some bad revision on a protected page, I have to note, that "Australian" must be taken out. If Nicole Kidman holds dual citizenship, then she is not simply Australian. Putting Australian-American at the beginning of the article is additionally confusing. Saying that she believes herself Australian is not enough. You have to back it up with documentation. I would, however, be surprised if Ms. Kidman were to publically renounce an American citizenship, as it the United States where most of her bread is buttered. Her publicist has probably advised her against it. Bastiq▼e demandez 02:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Good points.Amerindianarts 02:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the protection on this article. The use of the term Australian in the opening sentence must be sourced with clear proof of Kidman's self-identification as Australian. The Request for Mediation has seemingly died, however, it may not have been appropriate to begin with. Unsourced information is simply not included in articles when challenged. If this commences again, I advise the involved individuals to file a Request for Comment. Bastiq▼e demandez 01:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
In view of the constant revision and lack of discussion attempting to resolve the issue the request for mediation was entirely appropriate. It initiated a process of resolution even if the mediators ignored the problem. Amerindianarts 01:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
The mediators did not ignore the problem. The Mediation cabal is severely overworked and understaffed. Mediation is best when there are more than one problem editors, and this is why I suggested another forum may be ultimately best. Bastiq▼e demandez 02:00, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Does the source added really state the case and support the claim that Kidman is an Aussie?? It is Urban who states "I was really proud. We’re both really proud Australians and the support we got from Australia was really overwhelming...". Urban is ironically enough, a New Zealander. Amerindianarts 00:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

That's a peculiar remark. Are you saying that Urban is confused, mistaken about his nationality? Seems a slightly arrogant suggestion, if you don't mind me saying. It would seem perfectly natural for him to consider himself to be an Australian, since that is where he spent the entirety of his formative years, and that fact is no doubt a major influence on his music, which is the reason for his fame in the first place.Ernest the Sheep 22:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Ernest the Sheep

I would say he is confused on certain points, as are the edits you propose. He is indigenous to New Zealand. He may consider himself as an Australian, but the facts of citizenship dictate that he is also New Zealander (has he denounced that citizenship recently? Please inform me.). The facts belong in an opening paragraph. What he considers himself is fodder for the article content, as is his speaking for Kidman. His comment doesn't make it fact. Now, that was simple, wasn't it?Amerindianarts 10:06, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Again, I have to say that your assertion that he might be confused does smack of just a little bit of arrogance on your part, no offence intended. I have no knowledge of what citizenship Urban may hold at present, but I do not believe this to be of any particular relevance anyway. As far as I am aware Urban grew up in Australia and it would appear that he certainly regards himself as being an Australian, which is hardly unexpected. Yes, he may also be a New Zealander, but as far as I can tell in the field of country music his *nationality* is Australian. It is as a result of this kind of unsophisticated approach to matters, a fixation on the vagaries of citizenship and the like, that we end up with ridiculous arguments such as whether Kidman is an Australian or American. As far as I and the vast majority of the world is concerned Nicole Kidman has always been Australian, so it seems silly for wikipedia to even contemplate contradicting this. Kidman is an Australian actress who also happens to holds American citizenship. It is as simple as that. Ernest the Sheep 00:55, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
No, and so it's reverted. Still looking for a reference that states she considers herself Australian, over and above American. And, considering her lifestyle is funded by Hollywood, that is proving hard to find. --Steve 01:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I "love" how these "people" are putting up dodgy articles to justify this issue on the Aus v US citizen issue - what would be awesome if someone could get a statement from Kidman's management/agent regarding this. --Mikecraig 01:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Even in the case of a non-dodgy citation the info is hardly lead paragraph material in this case, but I'm not going to get into a revert war again with a user who refuses to reason, or engage in discussion as to consensus on the issue. Communication and mutual intelligibilty are lacking here. Amerindianarts 02:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
After checking various bios (Mel Gibson, Russell Crowe, Naomi Watts, Keith Urban, Errol Flynn) and the list of Australian actors it seems the Wiki precedent is to name the person as to citizenship. Gibson is listed as "American" stating that he maintained US citizenship after moving to and living in Australia for twelve years. One would assume that perhaps his family may have applied for Aussie citizenship after all those years, but the article does not refer to citizenship as such and lists him as an American actor, and he is included on the Wiki list of Australian actors. Flynn is listed as Australian: there is no reference to American citizenship (he may not have applied). Others are listed according to birthplace and applied citizenship. Amerindianarts 00:39, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Then why not do the simple: why not just list her as an Australian? After all that's how she feels about it! She has both Australian and American citizenship and she has the right to choose what's her nationality is out of these two. Of course, it'd be silly if she suddenly decided that she's Japanese or French never having such citizenships but as long as the person has a citizenship of a country, it's up to them to decide if it's their nationality.

[edit] Quick Time

Quick Time is free, you don't have to buy it to be able to watch Quick Time movies. In addition they can be played with VLC media player which is open source. Hence I will reinsert the links. And you even deleted the YouTube link. 84.41.34.154 08:20, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Look again. The YouTube link disappeared on an edit by 85.55.177.168, not my edit. When I went to the link you posted and tried to open the file it offered Quick Time for $29.95. I saw no free offer. Wiki is not too fond of these type of links (media), they really don't offer much info to be substantiated by a point in the article, which is the purpose of external linking. They also don't like links with downloads unless the download license can be verified. You might check this first.Amerindianarts 09:40, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nicole Kidman is an Australian

The description of her as being Australian-American is outright embarrassing. I can't recall ever hearing or reading such a statement elsewhere. She is universally regarded as being an Australian actress. So how about we exercise a little bit of common sense and change it back to just Australian? Who else agrees?Ernest the Sheep 22:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Ernest the Sheep

I removed it, though I must admit I don't recall if that was the consensus of the RfC. --Yamla 22:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
The mediation is still open closed --Steve 23:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
She was born in the USA and holds dual citizenship. The current lead looks ok to me except I might put American before Australian :) Just kidding, keep as is is fine --Tom 21:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dr Kidman

A couple of people have been adding in an unsourced statement that Nicole's father Dr Anthony Kidman died in 2001. I believe this is a hoax and should be reverted on sight per WP:BLP. A quick Google search pulls up plenty of references that indicate he was alive at least as recently as October 24, 2006 [2]. Please revert this information if it continues to show up without sources. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 01:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source requested for "Australian-ness"

I can't believe this has to be debated. It confuses citizenship with nationality/culture. I mean, it's not even as if Kidman is only a US citizen and even if she were, it still wouldn't necessarily make her culturally American. Plenty of people have only one citizenship and yet are still regarded as being part of another nationality (see Rupert Murdoch). Kidman happens to have been born in Hawaii. Big deal. Her parents are Australian, she grew up in Australia and went to school here. She speaks Australian English and is used as an example of "General Australian" accent in the article Varieties of Australian English. It doesn't need verification because it's bleeding obvious that she is culturally Australian. Grant65 | Talk 01:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Even though the burden of proof should be on the "she's-an-American-too" crowd, I have now provided two references:
  • "Hollywood was initially sceptical that because she was Australian she couldn't perform as a regular American. She says: "A common reaction from casting people and directors was, 'She can't do an American accent', or, 'How's she going to understand the American mentality?' Now it's almost a plus to be Australian, people are intrigued by it, they have seen we can do accents, we can take on personas, and we can embody characters."[3]
  • "NICOLE KIDMAN: I think being an Australian makes you unique in terms of working internationally. So therefore, if you find somebody else that you really like that happens to be the same nationality as you and happens to be, you know, what I consider the best hairdresser in the world - wow - then, there's a friendship, there's a professional respect."[4]
Grant65 | Talk 02:18, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


Bah. This is being discussed over and over. We really need a policy here. Yes, she is Australian. No she's not an American. But it also has nothing to do with culture. The ONLY two things that made her Australian is the fact that she's an Australian citizen, and backed up by the only fact that she considers her Australian. Technically, you're X National if you hold X citizenship. Or at least, that's the most politically correct way to treat it.

The standard is to go by nationality. By that policy, she is American and Australian. I'll note also that she clearly feels being American is important, otherwise she would have given up her American citizenship. --Yamla 04:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Why the hell would she give it up and who says where you are born and technical citizenship has anything to do with nationality? Grant | Talk 04:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tom Cruise did not leave her knowing she was pregnant and be the cause of miscarriage

So whoever keeps putting that back in, get a life. They didn'tknow she was pregnant when they decided to end their relationship. He was not the cause of the miscarriage, she's pretty much never spoken about it.Johnpedia 23:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Please do not make personal attacks, and provide sources that they didnt know she was pregnant, and it doesnt state that he was the cause of the miscarriage. Joneleth 20:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Actress vs actor

If you've ever seen her in Eyes Wide Shut, she's clearly neither.

In keeping with avoiding sexist language wherever possible, i any reference to nicole kidman as an actress to an actor. It is taken for granted that she is female, and while actor is the normative, supposedly generic term, actress seems to suggest that she is a deviation to this norm. i urge everyone to assist in making these changes wherever possible and maintaining their edits to this regard.

additionally, terms such as 'comedienne', 'murderess' and 'chairman' should be changed to their gender neutral equivilants wherever possible, sensical and relevant. Character234 04:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)Character234

Sorry but that's nonsense. There's nothing sexist about words like that and changing them is just pandering to the PC brigade. SteveLamacq43 14:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

it's not, it's just ridiculous to call her an actress when she's an actor. would you call a female murderer a murderess? there's no such thing as an actress. Character234 08:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

or would you call a female butcher a butchess? or a female doctor a doctoress? maybe a female chef a chefess? stop being ridiculous and leave it as it

I think that should be "butchress" and "doctress" ;-) Murderess is (or used to be) a widely-used word, but I think you're right in that "-ress" is a kind of diminutive. I can't see why anyone would object to gender-neutral terms, especially when it doesn't involve neologisms like "actperson". The use of "she" and her" in the article makes it clear that Kidman is female, so "actor" would be better, unless its a proper name like "Academy Award for Best Actress". Grant65 | Talk 13:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Didn't she win an Oscar for "Best Actress"? Afaik, it's not referred to as "Best Female Actor". Which brings me to one of my bugbears. There are no separate Oscars for female writers vs. male writers, female directors vs. male directors, female producers vs. male producers. If the PC brigade is so intent on calling female actors simply "actors", why don't they demand the instant abolition of the "Best Actress" Oscar, and have all actors (male and female) compete for the sole "Best Actor" award? -- JackofOz 11:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] birthplace

I thought I read somewhere once that she was born in Hawaii. Doesn't that rate a mention somewhere?

It's mentioned in the second sentence! --Steve (Slf67) talk 22:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed uncited content per BLP

Can be viewed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicole_Kidman&diff=104509876&oldid=104504403 -- CyberAnth 04:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Refs were added, not sure why you removed it again, but I've reverted your change. --Steve (Slf67) talk 05:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awards List

Looking at this article, I was wondering if the exhaustive awards list is necessary. They're all important awards, but having a long list of awards and nominations just looks tacky, in my opinion. Perhaps they could just be mentioned in the career section and as special notes in the filmography, instead of being a separated section? I'd be willing to help with that if the rest of you agree. What do you all think? - Lulu288 00:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Miscarriage - false

The article says that she suffered a miscarriage. Kidman has recently denied that it was a miscarriage (see this or this article). She says it was actually an ectopic pregnancy. I am changing the information in the article, unless anyone has any objections? --DearPrudence 03:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

she is real nice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.89.11 (talk) 07:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nicole Kidman "wants her kids out" of Scientology

Source could be used in this article. Cirt (talk) 18:59, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Likely that this has cropped up/will pop up in other sources as well. Cirt (talk) 19:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request for comment: Australian-American or American-Australian?

    • RfC complete


Okay, let's put an end to this edit war. I could have been born in America, but that wouldn't make me American-British. Just because someone is born in a different country, it doesn't mean that their nationality changes with it. So, comments please? And no more reverting, or I will block those who continue. Consider this your only warning. PeterSymonds (talk) 07:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

No, Peter, if you were born in the U.S. then you would be a U.S. citizen and you would be referred to as a American-Brit, its as simple as that. By the way, I love your country and I studied at Oxford University during law school. My business partner is based in London and it gives me an excuse to visit quite often. Have a good day!--InaMaka (talk) 15:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree, the rest of her family are Australian , she recognizes herself as Australian she should be considered Australian. Since these guys won't give it a rest with the American thing, I changed it to Australian-American yet they insist on the American-before-Australian.CoheedLovesCambria (talk) 08:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
So let's some issues straight first. The edit that I made is based upon Wikipedia policy nothing else. Wikipedia policy is very, very clear. Under the definition of the Am-Au, an Am-Au is someone who is born in Am and then moves to Au, for whatever reason. Please see American Australian. That is right out of the Wikipedia article on Am-Au. Also, when you review the definition of Au-Am, it makes it very clear that a Au-Am is born in Au and then moves to another country and maintains their Au heritage. Please see Australian American. Please note from the discussion in Wikipedia concerning the term Au-Am, the person involved must be a naturalized U.S. citizen, which Kidman clearly is NOT. Kidman was born in the U.S and moved to Au when she was four years old, therefore, she is an Am-Au. The fact she was born in the U.S. makes her a U.S. citizen. That is a fact and no amount of Wikipedian opinion can change that fact. The only person that change that fact is not a Wikipedian at all, but Kidman herself. If she renounces her U.S. citizenship then she is no longer a U.S. citizen. But, as far as I know, she has NOT renounced her U.S. citizenship. Also, to renounce your American citizenship is not just making comments critical of the U.S. or U.S. foreign or domestic policy. The requirements of renouncing your citizenship are very clear and are NOT abitratary. Please see "Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship" from the U.S. Department of State. If she has taken action and unquestionably renounced her U.S. citizenship and someone who is working on this article is aware of it then please provide all of the editors a citation to that fact, but until that information is provided we have to work under one basic assumption: she is a U.S. citizen. See Jus soli. For verification of my on-point, correct, and undeniable delineation of this issue, please see talk page discussion for Boris Johnson, the newly-elected mayor of London. Now, clearly her parents moved back to Au after she was born and she was raised in Australia. So therefore she has legal grounds to claim Au citizenship: Jus sanguinis. Because of her particular situation, her nationality is almost exact in nature to that of Mel Gibson. Gibson like Kidman was born in the U.S., making both of them without a doubt U.S. citizens. And Gibson just like Kidman moved from the U.S. to Australia at a young age, making them both Australian citizens. And just like Gibson, Kidman moved from North America (U.S.) to Australia, making them both American-Australians. (Also, on a different topic, I didn't even know I was in an edit war because I found this topic very clear. And finally, the fact that an admin has gotten involved and threatened to block anyone for any disagreement seems to be excessive and overbearing.) I hope my clear outline of the issues settles this disagreement.--InaMaka (talk) 15:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Oooops! I found an interview with Kidman by CNN from January 18, 2002. She admits that she has dual citizenship, so the argument that she is "full AUSTRALIAN" (capitalization was in original comment) as many of my fellow Wikipedians claim is hogwash.[1]:
CNN: Speaking of which, you play a Russian, you're really Australian, but you weren't born in Australia -- a lot of people would be surprised about where you were born.
KIDMAN: Hawaii. My dad was studying ... . He had a scholarship at the University of Hawaii. And that's where I happened to be born. And then we moved to Washington, D.C. until I was three. But both my parents are Australian. I'm a weird mix. I'm a mutt.
CNN: Do you have duel citizenship?
KIDMAN: Yes, I do have duel citizenship. And so do my kids. I told them that they will appreciate that when they are older.[2]
Notice that CNN misspells the word "duel"--not once but twice. What boneheads! Do they know the difference? Also, notice that Kidman is quite PROUD of her U.S. citizenship and she is quite proud of her children's U.S. citizenship. That blows huge holes in the argument that she self-identifies as a "full AUSTRALIAN" (capitalization was in original comment) as other fellow Wikipedians were incorrectly claiming.--InaMaka (talk) 15:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Please see Australian_American, the introduction clearly states among others "by holding Australian citizenship, or being a descendant of people from Australia." Of course she can be proud of her American Citizenship (key word citizenship) it's where she gets a lot of work. BUT this doesn't change the FACT that she regards herself as Australian first and foremost.
That interview DOES NOT blow holes in anything, because theres about hundred more where she states being proud of being AUSTRALIAN.
In a August 29, 2004 interview with The Sydney Morning Herald it was noted that "In interviews Kidman generously shares her thoughts about how her career has developed and her incredible pride in being Australian. She is grateful for the point of difference it gives her in Hollywood and "would like for my country to be proud of me". CoheedLovesCambria (talk) 17:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, yes, there are huge, gapping holes in your claim that Kidman is "full AUSTRALIAN" (emphasis yours). She states flat out in the CNN interview that she has dual citizenship and she states flat out that her children have dual citizenship. Holes, big ones.--InaMaka (talk) 17:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Seriously, who is denying that she has duel citizenship? That doesn't mean she recognizes herself as American at all. The fact is that, and I'll repeat she recognizes herself as Australian, in the The Sydney Morning Herald interview I provided "In interviews Kidman generously shares her thoughts about how her career has developed and her incredible pride in being Australian. She is grateful for the point of difference it gives her in Hollywood and "would like for my country to be proud of me". So if anything that just "blows holes" (your wording) through your argument where you claim she doesn't recognize herself as Australian first and foremost.CoheedLovesCambria (talk) 06:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
First of all, she states that she has dual citizenship, which means that she has a citizen other than Australian. Second, you are quoting the reporter in the quote above. Third, you are ignoring the definitions of Au-Am and Am-Au. And finally, the "first and foremost" phrase is your phase, completely made up by a Wikipedian, you. It ranks right up there with your previous made up phrase that Kidman is a "full AUSTRALIAN" (your emphasis), whatever that phrase means. You have not chosen to ignore all of the definitions of Au-Am and Am-Au because they do not align with what your personal perference for the article should be.--InaMaka (talk) 11:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Her holding duel citizenship doesn't mean she regards as a American, it's more of a convenience to have both since she gets most of her work there. She is proud of holding duel citizenship but regards herself as Australian. If you choose to ignore all the evidence regarding this and go against the majority, than that is not my problem. The quote I provided was from was a extremely repeatable source, and it was gathered from interviewing Nicole Kidman herself. I'm not ignoring anything, she has more in common with AU-AM than AM-AU. About First and foremost, yes it's a phrase, a phrase which represents Kidman's view on her country.CoheedLovesCambria (talk) 07:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Dear Cambria: The first sentence of the Australian-American article states that the person be a naturalized U.S. citizen. Its as simple as that. Kidman is a U.S. citizen by birth, not naturalization, so she is an American. She continues to claim U.S. citizenship and she has never chosen to renounce it. I'm sure that she is proud of being an Australian but that does not have anything to do with the rules. The rules are clear. She is an American Australian, just like Mel Gibson. I know that many, many Australians want to claim her as ONLY theirs but clearly from the CNN quote above Kidman also claims the U.S. and no amount of Australian pride can change that. She self-identifies as a U.S. citizen and we as Wikipedians cannot over-rule her own desires to be considered a U.S. citizen. The only person who can change that is Kidman herself and she hasn't and she has stated that wants to be considered a U.S. citizen. She was born in the U.S. and she moved, at a young age, to Australia, that's the definition of American Australian.--InaMaka (talk) 17:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Let's breakdown the definition of Australian American as defined by Wikipedia, the project on which we are all working: An Australian American is a naturalised American citizen with a significant relationship to Australia, such as by being born in Australia, by holding Australian citizenship, or being a descendant of people from Australia. The definition is quite clear. There are two parts to the definition. The First Part is being a naturalised American citizen. The Second Part requires a "significant relationship to Australia". The Second Part can be met three ways: (1) Born in Australia, (2) Holding Australian citizenship, or (3) or a descendant of people from Australia. Now, let's apply this definition to Kidman. She does NOT, in any way, met the requirements of the First Part. She is NOT a naturalized U.S. citizen. She is a citizen of the U.S. by birth, not naturalization, so therefore she does not meet the basic requirement of the First Part. Now, she does meet the Second Part by holding Australian citizenship and by being a descendant of people from Australia. But meeting the Second Part and not meeting the First Part is does not make her an Australian American.--InaMaka (talk) 19:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Now, let's breakdown the definition of American Australian as defined by Wikipedia, the project on which we are all working: American Australians are Australians who are either born in, or descended from migrants from Anglophone North America — usually the United States and its territories. This definition is also quite clear. Once again, it has two parts to it also, just like Australian American. Part ONE requires the individual to be an Australian. Part TWO requires the individual to have some relationship with America. Part TWO can be met in two ways: (1) born in the U.S. or its territories OR (2) descended from migrants from the U.S. or its territories. Now, let's apply this definition to Kidman. She meets Part ONE clearly. Part ONE does not state how one is an Australian, but that does not matter because all that is required is the individual be an Australian. We all agree that Kidman is clearly an Australian by merit of being a child of Australian parents. Now, let's apply Part TWO. All that it requires is the individual have some relationship with America by being born in America. Yes, Kidman was born in America (Hawaii) and therefore she meets both tests of the definition of American Australian. Well, that closes down all of the arguments that could possibly be made on this topic and the only logical conclusion is that Kidman is an American Australian. Have a good day!--InaMaka (talk) 19:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I would also like to mention that she clearly acknowledges her link to America, if not why would she donate to American political parties? Someone that considered themself soley an Australian would care about Austarlian politics not America's, not to mention that she could NOT donate at all if she was not an American citizen. Also to the person that reverted the other day and said "the only thing that matters is heritage". Well if that is so the only real Australians would be Aborigines. The caucasians of Australia actually British by Heritage. By birth she is a native of Hawaii which is in the United States. Unless her parents were in the U.S. as a representitive of the Australian government, which they weren't. They were actually living in the U.S. Swampfire (talk) 20:25, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Good point, Swampfire. I looked Kidman's political donations. You can review them here: Nicole Kidman's federal political donations. It is clear that Kidman has given to Hillary Clinton, Nick Clooney (George Clooney's father), Al Gore, Tom Daschle, Tom Harkin, and the Democratic National Committee. She seems to be awful busy giving money to national Democrats in the U.S. for someone who a few Wikipedian's claim is a "full AUSTRALIAN" (emphasis was in the original comment)--InaMaka (talk) 21:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
TY InaMaka, also it is Illegal for a non-American to make a donation and illegal for a politician to accept it, and like we both mentioned, why would she care about the polictics in America? Unless that is that it affects her, because she is American too.Swampfire (talk) 20:46, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm responding to the RfC. I have a question: what does it matter how Kidman regards herself? Your nationality is not determined by you, but by the laws of the country in question. I regard myself as Scottish (my mother and grandmother were born in Scottland), but that doesn't make me Scottish-American. I have no right to claim Scottish citizenship and should only be labled a Scottish-American in the loosest sense of the phrase. I have a family friend that keeps getting called an African-American, but he's from Jamaica, not Africa. It looks clear that, according to WP, Kidman is an American-Austrailian, regardless of what she regards herself to be. Padillah (talk) 20:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

RFC response. When I read the topic on the RFC board I thought of course she's an Australian American, however, I did not know she was born in the U.S. and holds dual citizenship. Have to say that my outside opinion, after reading the definitions on various Wiki articles, is that she's an American-Australian (though I do understand it is counter to most people's perceptions of her).Renee (talk) 22:22, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

RFC response. Perhaps everyone is going at this the wrong way. Why is it paramount that she be referred to as either American-Australian or Australian-American? This issue could be argued endlessly and a lot of good energy is being spent over what could be viewed as semantics. This might be better resolved by developing a specific statement that encompasses all of this: Nicole Kidman is a film actress who was born in Hawaii to native Australian parents while her father was studying at the University of Hawaii. Kidman holds dual Australian and United States citizenship. Rather than trying to categorize her, explain the situation. Wildhartlivie (talk) 12:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Support. Brilliant solution.Renee (talk) 00:43, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

OUTSIDE OPINION I basically concur the above statement. The last sentence before the TOC has an explanation, as well as the early life section (and this could be expanded if need be). Why not make the first sentence "...is an Academy Award-winning actress." and elaborate somewhere else? JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 04:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Support suggestion by Wildhartlivie --Matilda talk 07:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Strong Support suggestion by Wildhartlivie. Agree that a lot of time and energy is being spent when all it needs is to clearly state all the facts in her profile. Michellecrisp (talk) 07:52, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Strong Support suggestion by Wildhartlivie. A lot clearer and more concise, leaves out twisted terms. Padillah (talk) 12:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Will also point out, she was born and lived in the U.S. from 1967 - 1971 (4 years) then moved to Australia from 1971 - 1989 (17 years), then she has resided primarily in the U.S. since then 1989 - present (19 years). So while living in Australia is where she got her acting start and is where her parents were from. She was born in the U.S. and has primarily resided in the U.S. for the MAJORITY of her life (23 years as a pimary resident of the U.S., 17 years as a primary resident of Australia). So for that fact, the proper term should be Austarlian-American.Swampfire (talk) 20:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

RFC RESPONSE. This whole discussion is pretty silly really. Terms such as American-Australian or Australian-American are gobbledegook. I'm sure most people would be confused as to just what is implied by their use. The fact that there may be a Wikipedia article explaining them adds little credibility to their use here. What is more important though is that they are terms rarely used in the media when talking about or describing Nicole Kidman. I would agree that technically you may be able to justify the use of these terms, but what I would question is the appropriateness of using them as a descriptor in the opening paragraph of the article. Whenever Kidman's nationality is mentioned in the general media it is almost always the case that she is referred to as an Australian. It would be very rarely indeed that she would be referred to as solely American. Hence I can't see how you can justify using the term Australian-American to open the article. It is not in line with the majority of references I can find. Hence it is my opinion that evidence needs to be provided to support such a precedence. For example the Encarta World English Dictionary describes her as a Hawaiian-born Australian actor. I would be happy to go along with that.Ernest the Sheep (talk) 04:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

(don't want to put words in your mouth but...) Looks like this is yet more support for the "spelled out" version proposed by Wildhartlivie. Padillah (talk) 12:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

RfC response: Strong Support suggestion by Wildhartlivie. While "American-Australian" may be technically correct, it would be jarring for the reader, as it is far from the common explanation provided by the media. Spell it out. Readers can be surprised to learn that she was born in the U.S. and holds U.S. citizenship without being thrown for a loop. -Exucmember (talk) 17:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

RFC response: Strongly support Wildhartlivie's suggestion. Please tell me you guys haven't really been arguing for all this time over whether it's more correct to call Kidman Am-Au or Au-Am? Please? I mean, you wouldn't waste your time like that, right? It's impossible to create a categorisation system that neatly covers every case without overlap or ambiguity - it just can't be done and really, whichever version you use won't impart all the subtleties of your views to the reader. Better by far to just describe her background. 4u1e (talk) 10:06, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, come on. The article has been edited to meet with Wildhartlivie's recommendation a long time ago. Please tell me you aren't really beating a dead horse, are you? Seriously, is there any reference in the article to Am-Au or Au-Am when you wrote your comments? No. Of course, please don't tell me that you are merely repeating the same comments ad nauseum?--InaMaka (talk) 16:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Somebody might like to take the article off the RfC list then. Just a thought. ;-) 4u1e (talk) 10:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. However, I would perfer that someone else do it.--InaMaka (talk) 17:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

  1. ^ Please see the edit summary from the Kidman article in Wikipedia: (cur) (last) 07:14, 21 May 2008 58.165.8.220 (Talk) (41,440 bytes) (It dosen't matter where they were "living" at the time they are both of Australian heritage so she is full AUSTRALIAN) (undo)
  2. ^ "Nicole Kidman: 'Back to my core', 'Birthday Girl' is 'about the "unlikeness" of two people'", CNN, January 18, 2002. Retrieved on 2008-05-27. 

[edit] References