Talk:Nicolaism

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This entry incorporates text from the public domain Easton's Bible Dictionary, originally published in 1897.

Contents

[edit] Church of Ouzo

There are two words that are original to the book of Revelation: Nicolaitanes and Armageddon. Christ said he hates the deeds and doctrine of the Nicolaitanes. "Nicolaitanes" is an anagram for "O satanic line," a reference to the beast line of the Ouzo Cross. Armageddon is the location of the final battle between good and evil. "Armageddon" is an anagram for "Dame Dragon," a generalized personification of evil, similar to other generalized personifications such as Mother Nature and Lady Luck. Anagrams are related to gematria. Both are number/letter codes, anagrams being based on ordinal numbers and gematria on cardinal numbers.

Robert Merlin Evenson/Church of Ouzo

bobevenson@yahoo.com

[edit] Anagrams

Since the original document was written in Greek, I don't see the relevance of anagrams of the English translations (Nicolaitanes, Armageddon).

Kevin Cundiff

The book of Revelation was written for all peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues, and since English is becoming a universal language, I believe the book of Revelation, as translated and edited to 1946 in the KJV, was indeed written for an English-speaking audience. RME
Not relevant to this article, though. The anagram doesn't tell us about the Nicolaitanes at all. And an anagram written in Greek over a thousand years ago to a word in its modern English spelling (what happens when English continues to change?), please, use your reason. L Hamm 15:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
The Nicolaitanes are merely an anagrammatical symbol for the struggle between good and evil as represented by the Ouzo Cross in "The Ouzo Prophecy". The "e" in the word "Nicolaitanes" has flashed on and off in the historical KJV editing of the book of Revelation, a beacon to its allegorical meaning. RME

[edit] The Seven Churches

The seven churches of the Revelation heading are actually seven ages of Christianity until today... ~ S.Psi. 2006-09-19

The seven churches of Revelation: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea represent the seven continents of the world, and the letters to the churches provide God's unified message to mankind through the testimony of Jesus Christ. If you distill the meaning of each letter and connect them, the following message emerges: "It is not enough to merely recognize and hate evil: fear not the tribulation of Satan; fight evil wherever you find it, and do not allow it to flourish; contain evil and overcome it with perseverance and commitment to good." If you add up the seven continents of the world from a spiritual standpoint (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea) in English gematria simplex (A=1 to Z=26) and subtract out "the seven continents of the world" from a physical standpoint, you are left with the spiritual essence of "Robert Merlin Evenson". RME

[edit] Nicolaitan Heresy

Added connection to Nicolas of Antioch, the seventh (named) deacon of the Apostolic Church. I have found no records other than those of critics widely reported - Irenaeus, Tertullian, etc. However, no information yet as to the reason for its decline. L Hamm 03:19, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Continuing some research to see if anything can be fleshed out as to the actual nature of Nicolaitanes. Found this in Paul B Duff's Who Rides the Beast? : Prophetic Rivalry and the Rhetoric of Crisis in the Churches of the Apocalypse (Cary, NC, USA: Oxford University Press, Incorporated, 2001.) p 39:

What do these people believe? 28 Given what the text says about the crimes of Balaam, there can be little doubt that the teachings of the Nicolaitans are those that the seer connects with Balaam, specifically "eating ειδωλóθυτα" (meat sacrificed to idols) and committing πορνειο (usually translated "fornication"). 29 It is apparent from the threat section of the letter (D) that John considers these teachings to be a significant danger to the faithful. As opposed to the rather mild warning delivered in the Ephesian letter, here the Son of Man threatens violence. 30 The blatant hostility of the threat might suggest that "those who hold the teachings of the Nicolaitan" comprise a significant number of Christians in Pergamum. Regardless, it certainly indicates that the controversy between the "faithful" and "those holding the teachings of the Nicolaitans" is particularly bitter in this community.

L Hamm 22:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NI-CO-laitanes

What about this anagram:

NI is Nicea

CO is Constantinopole

(and probably LA is Laodicea, if it suits in greek?)


and NICOlaitanes refers to results of Nicene and Constantinopole creeds, the disputes of Filioque clause, leading later to separation of churches, and 1500 year battle for few words...

To a start of condemnation of anyone differing as a heretic (like Arians)...

Trying to match this with some sect in Jerusalem, Ephesus or Pergamum in the times of John writing the Book is only a strait solution, since the seven churches of the Revelation heading are actually seven ages of Christianity until today... ~ S.Psi. 2006-09-19

[edit] greek experts here?

what's about:
nikos: to conquer or have victory over
laos: the people
nicolaitane: conquering the people

[edit] Article needs clarification...

It appears from the Biblical text that the doctrine of the Nicolaitans was well understood to the audience of the day, but that understanding has simply been lost to us today. From samplings of web and paper literature, two main lines of reasoning are pursued to try to rediscover what that doctrine is. It looks like the most common approach is to appeal to the etymology of the word, almost without regard to historical writings on the subject. The other approach is to appeal to the early church fathers. The article as it currently stands (2006-11-28) has an unclear mish-mash of both.

I think it would be fair to acknowledge both approaches in the article, but make the two lines much clearer in the text. The article should discuss current thinking about the etymological route, as in:

Etymologically, there are two possibilities: 1. Nico + laos = conquer the people -> invention of clergy-laity division 2. Nicolas-followers = people who follow the doctrines of Nicolas

The article should give the most credence to the historical examination of Nicolaitanism. Currently, the article rightly appeals to the church fathers. But it could do a better job of citing and explaining. The Catholic Encyclopedia reference is very illuminating and should be better incorporated into this article. Another good article in this vein is at http://www.wordoftruthradio.com/questions/38.html.

Also, the correct spelling is Balaam, not Baalam. The latter is not found in either the original language or in any English Bible.


My dear anonymous poster--

I've done my best to clarify the article as you suggest, adding text from the Catholic Encyclopedia, Barnes' Notes, and Scofield, while keeping any of the original editor's text that seemed to be in line with other authorities. Hopefully the text can be expanded further with more details from the early authors, etc.

And, yes, Balaam (Bil'am) is easily confused in spelling with Baal (Ba'al). There is a triple pun (Balaam-Nicolaos-Baal) going on somewhere here. A pun, of course, is two words that seem the same but have different meanings, and the difference/similarity is funny, or in this case, ironic. Alfarero 02:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative explanations

I found plenty of texts that offer an alternative explanations to the word Nicolaitan. Here are some of them: http://www.acts1711.com/nic.htm http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/nicoltn.html http://www.triumphpro.com/nicolaitans.htm "The alternative explanation is that Nicolaitans refers to those teachers in the Body of Christ who began to elevate the clergy above the laity, a distinction that did not exist in the Christian Church until the end of the second century." 195.148.75.83 (talk) 01:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)