Talk:Nickel-iron battery

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[edit] Undocumented claim removed

NiFe has low power density, and lowest energy density of all rechargeable systems.

This does not stad to reason. NiCd has double the power density of lead, and it would surprise me if NiFe would be significantly worse. -- Egil 19:17, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

It's the case, remember it's a mass/energy ratio, but I'll leave it out 'till I dig up a ref. --DV8 2XL 19:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
lead acid 30 Wh/kg, so NiFe is at least better than that, if the 50 Wh/kg on this page is correct.Greglocock 22:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] lithium hydroxide electrolyte

This could probably go here, from Talk:Lithium_ion_battery#Invented by Thomas Edison?, I especially thought that this quote rings true in modern Li advances, production, and application.

The increase in capacity of an Edison cell in which lithium hydroxid is used, amounts to about ten per cent., while the increase of the time over which the capacity may be maintained is remarkable, and of the highest commercial importance.

Though if only related on an elemental lever... --D0li0 11:08, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed the following text by User:Avé:

Image:Ed_d22m.jpg
Thomas Alva Edison used (and preferred) Li-Ion batteries in his electric vehicles. While powered by Lithium Ion batteries, neither his electric trains that circumnavigated the Menlo Park lab/facility, nor the electric autos gained commercial success, it is worthy to note Henry Ford worked for Edison prior to starting Ford Motor Co.

The Detroit Electric car shown in that 1913 photograph predates commercial Li-ion batteries by almost 80 years. It was available with either lead-acid or nickel-iron batteries, as shown in this advertisement. Nickel-iron batteries were invented by Edison in 1901 and manufactured at the Edison Storage Battery Company.

I was unable to find any sources that suggest Edison invented the Lithium-ion battery. As part of my search, I reviewed all U.S. patents granted to Edison with titles containing variations of the words battery, electrode, or electrolyte. There are 94 such patents. And though I found no description of a device similar to a modern Li-ion battery, I did find references to lithium compounds Edison used in the construction of his nickel-iron batteries. Specifically, Edison discovered he could increase the capacity and longevity of nickel-iron batteries by supplementing the alkaline electrolyte with a small amount of lithium hydroxide. This discovery is presented in the following patent:

  • 876,445 Electrolyte for Alkaline Storage Batteries Use of lithium hydroxide in alkaline electrolytes.
    The increase in capacity of an Edison cell in which lithium hydroxid is used, amounts to about ten per cent., while the increase of the time over which the capacity may be maintained is remarkable, and of the highest commercial importance. (pg 1, ln 46)

I also found five other patents in which Edison describes an alkaline electrolyte containing a small amount of lithium hydroxide:

  • 1,073,107 Storage Battery Construction of small storage batteries.
    partly filled with the electrolyte 4, which consists preferably of a solution of potassium hydroxid in distilled water with a small percentage of lithia. (pg 1, ln 55)
  • 1,167,485 Storage Battery Use of cerium oxide as a cathode material rather than the usual nickel oxide.
    For the electrolyte I prefer to employ a solution of potassium or sodium hydroxid, to which may be added a small percentage of lithium hydroxid (pg 1, ln 86)
  • 1,299,693 Storage Battery Addition of tin oxide to iron cathodes.
    For the electrolyte I prefer to employ a solution of potassium or sodium hydroxid, to which may be added a small percentage of lithium hydroxid (pg 1, ln 92)
    An electrolyte containing lithium hydroxide is also mentioned in claims 18–22 and 28.
  • 1,379,088 Storage Battery High discharge rate batteries for starting the Ford car.
    such electrolyte preferably consisting of a 21% solution of caustic potash containing about 2% by weight of lithium hydroxid. (pg 2, ln 123)
  • 1,377,194 Storage Battery Continuation of 1,379,088.
    …such electrolyte preferably consisting of a 21% solution of caustic potash or a 15% solution of caustic soda, containing about 2% by weight of lithium hydroxid. (pg 4, ln 46)

I also found a patent describing the extraction of potassium and lithium from silicate ore. This suggests Edison used lithium in significant amounts, probably in the manufacture of storage batteries.

Curiously, five of these patents use the word prefer or preferably when describing the use of lithium hydroxide. This wording is mirrored in the Wikipedia text. Perhaps the nickel-iron batteries described in these patents were mistakenly believed to be Li-ion batteries?

I believe the addition of lithium hydroxide as described in patent 876,445 doesn't alter the basic chemistry of the nickel-iron cell. These batteries are nothing like modern Li-ion cells; they're more closely related to NiCds. —Ryanrs 14:58, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

The external link to 'Modern nickel-iron battery data' is 404 for me at 22-10-2006. 17 PM CET. Can somebody look into that?

It works for me at 26-11-2006 11 AM CST.

[edit] Charge Efficiency

The BeUtilityFree page cited for some other facts on this page says about their NiFe batteries: "New they are about 90 percent efficient then as they age they level off to about 80% efficient" (http://www.beutilityfree.com/batterynife/FAQNIFE.html)

The MPower site says NiFe batteries have "Low coulombic efficiency, typically less than 65%" (http://www.mpoweruk.com/nickel_iron.htm)

Are these figures measuring the same thing? If so they seem to be in conflict. BeUtilityFree's figures put NiFe batteries in a range that is competitive with lead acid cells (70-90% efficient) whereas MPower's figures put them below that range.

I can't tell for sure what MPower does or if they deal with NiFe batteries on a regular basis. BeUtilityFree evidently works with these batteries currently and so is producing numbers from their own research (though it is effectively sales literature, and so may be somewhat optimistic).

Are there any other primary sources for information about modern commercially produced NiFe batteries that could resolve this conflict? 65.174.156.30 (talk) 22:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)