Talk:Nichiren/Archive 2

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Interschool Legitimacy Disputes (1)

Nikkō as Nichiren's successor

In light of the comment added by User:12.215.222.123 (contribs) on 19 Jun 2005, I have removed the reference to Nikkō's claimed position as chief priest of Mt Minobu and, since 12.215.222.123's comments are more about Nikkō than Nichiren, will attempt to incorporate them into the article on Nikkō. I feel that some of the comments, however, require clarification: [Jim_Lockhart]

(Article): "Most independent sources disagree that Nikkō was named Chief Priest at Kuonji. Authenticated documents indicate that Nichiren wanted his 6 main successors to share this role, as a rotation. Nikkō became acting Chief Priest at Kunoji in 1285, only after the rotation system broke down. He was in residence at Minobu from late 1285 to late 1288."

Who are "most" independent authorities? I've seen how some scholars of Nichiren work when "authenticating" documents, and their methods surely would not hold water elsewhere.
The Nikko-Fuji lineages all make the claim that Nikko left Minobu partly because the rotation scheme (for looking after Nichiren's tomb) broke down (none of the other five showed up for their turns), because at least three of the other five claimed themselves to be Tendai-school priests, and because Mimbu Niko was commiting and encouraging others to commit "heresy". Do the scholars you refer to refute this, too? (I don't know, I'm asking.)

(Article): "The Ikegami Transfer Document, allegedly naming Nikkō at Kuonji, was likely fabricated in the 15th century, to support the claim of an inheritance, by one or the other of the feuding factions, that emerged from the Nikkō-Fuji lineage. But that is another story."

What are the grounds (other than, "we don't like what this document says, so it can't be real"—the usual kind of rationale coming from the parties to these differences, including "scholars" from Rissho Daigaku) for claiming that the Ikegami Transfer Document was fabricated in the 15th century?
What about the other transfer document? ("It's another story"; sounds juicy, so fill me in....) :)

robin writes: There is no doubt that Nissho and Nichiro cited their legal status, as Tendai Priests, to prevent Hae-no-Saemon-no-jo-Yoritsuna from talking illegal actions against them and their Sanghas. Nissho, acting as the de facto senior disciple, had submitted a revised Rissho Ankoku Ron, resulting in retaliation. Nikko was supportive at first, but complained about this situation many years later.

On Nikko and Niko's dispute, I refer you to:

Reply to Lord Hara {Hakiri} by Nikko Shonin

Hara Dono Gohenji {Excerpts}: http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/Hara%20Dono%20Gohenji%20excerpts.rtf

robin writes: The Ikegami Transfer Document aka The Document for Entrusting Minobu-san aka Minobu-san Fuzoku Sho aka Ikegami-sojo-sho. In this document, the Daishonin allegedly named Nikko as his successor and chief priest of Minobu-san Kuon-ji temple."

robin writes: The Hakasho Mamorubeki Bancho no Koto, The Shift for Protecting His Mausoleum, recorded by Nikko, states: "No rank [at Minobu]is observed."

This is also stipulated in the Shuso Gosenge Kiroku. According to Nichiren Shu: http://www.genshu.gr.jp/DPJ/paper/1997/97102002.htm

Translation: "In Heisei 4 [1992], November, the Gosenge Kiroku (in the archives of Nishiyama Hommonji) that was written by Nikko, was designated an important national property, and its [contents] made open to the public. Its contents are indeed valuable information with regards to the funeral arrangements of that time, especially the matter concerning rotation duty.It is written in Koan 5 [1282] Oct 16."

robin writes: "The Minobu Transfer Document", aka Minobu Sojo aka Nichiren Ichigo Guho Fuzoku Sho. In this document, the Daishonin allegedly transferred the entirety of his teachings to Nikko and entrusted him with leadership in propagating them.

An early reference to the Minobu Transfer Document is at Nishiyama Honmonji. This was the lineage that went from Nikko to Nichidai (1294-1394). The Document was likely fabricated to support the claim of an inheritance, by Nishiyama Fujisan Honmonji, which was one of the feuding factions that emerged from the Nikko-Fuji lineage. I do not have details. This is likely why the document stipulates Fujisan Honmonji as The Honmon-no-Kaidan.

There are no originals of the Minobu Sojo; SGI presently claims that these were were lost, during a military conflict, in 1581. According to SGI, the oldest known extant copies were recorded by Nisshin (1508-1576). of Yobo-ji temple, Kyoto. The earliest specific reference is in the Hyaku-gojikka-jo, written by Nikkyo (1428-1489?), at Taisekiji Temple in 1480. It appears that the content varied among the versions known to have existed; and each supported some unique claim made by the Fuji lineage temple where it surfaced. http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/The%20Minobu%20Transfer%20Document.rtf

Shuso Gosenge Kiroku, Record of the Passing of the Founder, was recorded by Nikko, and dated October 16 1282. The 'Kiroku' documents the events surrounding Nichiren’s final days. It includes a document known as the "Rokuroso", or, in English, "The Six Senior Disciples." On October 8, 1282,On October 8, 1282, appointed Six disciples to serve as his primary successors.

They were ranked according to tradition, by seniority; the order of when they became followers of Nichiren. In other words, Nissho was named the overall successor. Moreover, subsequent events, as recorded in the Kiroku, indicate that Nissho assumed that role.

Fuji Isseki Monto Zonchi-no-koto, The Guidelines for Believers of the Fuji School, states: "The Master [i.e. Nichiren] who preceded me had not decided on any country or any particular place. It is customary, at least in Buddhism, to choose the most scenic spot and build a temple there. Then, Mt. Fuji in Sugaru (Shizuoka Prefecture) is the supreme mountain in Japan. We should build our temple there.”

This 'Guidelines' document, cited above, directly contradicts what is written in the Minobu Transfer Document, here: "When the sovereign accepts faith in this Law, the Kaidan of Honmon-ji Temple must be established at Mount Fuji."

Again, fill us in. Why could the document not have existed in Nikko's lifetime? Nichiren himself in many of his writings seemed to be quite fascinated (obsessed?) with the notion of legitimacy in the form of teacher-disciple lineage; given that context, the Nikko-Fuji branches' obsession with it do not seem all that out of character. [Jim_Lockhart]

robin writes: I see very little evidence in the translated Gosho that Nichiren was at all "fascinated (obsessed?) with the notion of legitimacy in the form of teacher-disciple lineage."

He was quite critical of Saicho's {Dengyo Daishi's} successors at Enryakuji. His critiques of Jikaki Daishi {Ennin} and others are nuanced, so sexy sound bite quotes are hard to find:

"In reality, the sutras of Shingon belong to the provisional teachings previous to the Lotus Sutra and are inferior even to the Kegon or the Hannya sutras. Yet Jikaku and Kobo were confused on this point and held that the Shingon sutras were equal or even superior to the Lotus Sutra."

He also dismissed Nonin's Daruma Zen notion of a kechimayaku outside of the Sutras:

"In the time of the Retired Emperor Gotoba, during the Kennin era (1201-1204), there were two arrogant men, Honen and Dainichi [Nonin]."

"During the Kennin era (1201-1204), two men came to prominence, Honen and Dainichi [Nonin], who spread the teachings of the Nembutsu and Zen schools, respectively. "

"Dainichi [Nonin], for his part claimed that the true teachings of Buddhism had been transmitted apart from the sutras."

Of himself, he wrote:

"I, Nichiren, am not the founder of any sect, nor am I a latter-day follower of any older sect. I am a priest without precepts, neither keeping the precepts nor breaking them. I am an ordinary creature like an ox or a sheep, divorced from both the possession of wisdom and the absence of it." -- from Letter to Myomitsu Shonin written the third month of 1276

Of his own master, he wrote:

"To repay the debt that I owe to my former teacher Dozen-bo, I desired to spread the teachings of the Buddha on Mount Kiyosumi and lead my teacher to enlightenment. But he is a rather ignorant man, and in addition he is a believer in the Nembutsu, so I did not see how he could escape the three evil paths. Moreover, he is not the kind of person who would listen to my words of instruction."

"When I considered that my teacher Dozen-bo might meet a similar fate, I was filled with pity for him and therefore made up my mind to speak to him in very strong terms."

"I explained all this in detail to Dozen-bo at the time of our meeting, though it did not appear that he completely understood."

"Dozen-bo was not an entirely helpless man, and yet, though I was exiled all the way to the province of Sado, he never once tried to visit me. This is hardly the behavior of one who believes in the Lotus Sutra."

The content and context, of subsequent events and documents, clearly prove that the Ikegami Transfer Document was not created on October 13 1282. It could not have existed at all in Nikkō's lifetime.

Nikkō wrote, or had written, many letters & documents about the situation at Minobu. He addresses many problems and disputes. Right up to his departure, in late 1288, or early 1289, he consistently holds that Nichiren's Will should be excecuted exactly as recorded. Once he was completely over ruled by the others, he left, rather than compromise any further. But not once did he claim to be the Chief Priest of Minobu. Nor did any of his successors make that claim, not for 200 years.

Jim replies: This is my understanding, too; obviously informed quite a bit by the stance of the Nikko-Fuji schools. But how does Nikko's not himself making the claim become tantamount to him not believing himself to be the chief priest of Minobu or the legitimate successor to Nichiren? I would think that this would be more obvious in the behavior of his followers and how the saw him rather than what he wrote himself.

robin writes: I find it absurd that he would not "wave the papers", had they existed. If someone tried to take my home, I think I might mention that I have my deed, to prove ownership.

http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/archives/000529.html

http://www.fraughtwithperil.com/blogs/rbeck/

Will have a look, but a cursory one doesn't show much to make me think this blog is credible.

robin writes: There is a good faith effort to be accurate and impartial. Good sources in English are rare. It is all in progress, and updated as new information is available.

A good-faith response would be appreciated. Jim_Lockhart 06:26, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sorry about any typos.

more links

Index of Books & Essays by Jacqueline Ilyse Stone, Ph.D. http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/bodhisattva/JStone.html

Ryuei.net http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/Ryuei/

nichirenpix · Nichiren Buddhist Art & Culture Group Information

   * Members: 229
   * Category: Buddhism
   * Founded: Jan 5, 2004
   * Language: English

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nichirenpix/

Soka Gakkai International Group Information

   * Members: 2087
   * Category: Buddhism
   * Founded: Oct 20, 1998
   * Language: English

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/

Gohonzon Shu http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/GohonzonShu/001.html

BTW, a little on the Nikko Lineage

n 1298, Nikko's Temple at Omosu Village was consecrated as "Hokke Honmonji Kongen". Omosu Village/Town is an old name, while Kitayama is the modern name. Kitayama is now both a town and a district of Fujinomiya City. 'Kongen' means the temple was the 'seed' of Honmon-ji.

The Temple was built on land donated by the Steward of Omosu, Ishikawa Magosaburo Yoshitada. Another source indicates that Ishikawa Shimbei Sanetada's was a Steward of Omosu; and his wife was another elder sister of Nanjo Tokimitsu. Ishikawa Yoshitada was maybe his son, or Ishikawa Yoshitada & Ishikawa Sanetada were the same person?

In 1300, Jakusen-bo Nitcho (1262-1310) become First CI of Omosu Seminary at Hokke Honmonji Kongen Temple.

In 1302, Iyo-bo Nitcho (1252-1317), one of Nichiren's Six Major Disciples, moved to Omosu, where he built a Shorinji Temple, in March in 1303.

1310: Jakusen-bo Nitcho, one of the 6 Major New Disciples of Nikko passes away. Nichiro visits Omosu.

In 1317, Iyo-bo Nitcho, one of Nichiren's 6 Major Disciples passes away. Nichiro visits Omosu. Sammi Nichijun (1294-1356) became the 2nd Chief Instructor of Omosu Seminary.

In 1331, one of the 6 Major Elder Disciples of Nikko, Sho-bo Nichizen {?-1331} passes away.

Nikko died on February 7 1333, Iyo Nichidai (1294-1394), who was his nephew, succeeded him as CP at Omosu Hokke Honmoji Kongen {present day Kitayama Honmonji Temple}.

In November 1333, Nichimoku left for Kyoto, accompanied by Kujo-bo Nichizon (1265-1345) and Saisho Nichigo (1293-1353), to petition Godaigo for a Kaidan and Honmonji Temple. Nichimoku died en route, but Nichizon and Nichigo went on to Kyoto and submitted the petition, the Onjoji Moshijo, in January 1334.

Saisho Nichigo returned to Taiseki-ji with Nichimoku's ashes. Nitta Nichido (1283-1341), who was Nichimoku's paternal nephew, succeeded his Uncle as 3rd CP of Taisekiji.

Nichigo was given the deed to Nichimoku's lodging temple at Koizumi, called Renzo-bo {Chief Priest's Residence}, and he also gained custody of some treasures. He started a seminary at Koizumi; then left for Awa.

In 1334, Iyo Nichidai defeated Joren-bo Nissen (1262-1357) in a debate. Nissen argued that the Shakumon is useless and should be discarded completely. In defending the Shakumon, Iyo Nichidai proposed that the Shakumon and Honmon are equal.

Joren-bo {or Hyakkan-bo} Nissen (1262-1357} then left and founded Takase Honmon-ji in far away Sanuki province. Meanwhile, Iyo Nichidai lost credibility. Iyo Nichidai was ousted within a decade and replaced by a Nichimyo.

Nichizon had remained in Kyoto. In 1339 he founded Jogyo-in.

Nitta Nichido died in 1342. Taisekiji apparently had no Chief Priest until a Nichigyo assumed the position in 1365?

Around 1343, Iyo Nichidai founded Hokke-do, which later became Nishiyama Honmonji. Nishiyama was a village near Ueno, Omosu, & Koizumi. Today, all 4 villages are part of Fujinomiya City.

1343? Saisho Nichigo built Hota Myohon-ji, near Nichiren's birth place, at Yoshihama in Awa Province. Hota Myohonji now houses copies of the legendary Aizen/Fudo Kankenki{s}, and the original paper Dai-Honzon of 1274. [Until recently, the Kankenki{s} were thought to be forgeries.]

In 1363, Hongaku Nichidai(1309-1369), left Jogyo-in and founded Juhonji Temple in Kyoto. Hongaku Nichidai developed an early form of "Nichiren as the Hon-Butsu Theory."

From 1470 -1479 Nichigen (?-1486) at Nishiyama Honmonji developed a more sophisticated version of "Nichiren as the Hon-Butsu Theory." He may also have forged the first fake versions of the infamous two transfer documents. Nichiu (1402 or 1409-1482 or 1492{?}), the 8th CP of Taisekji, apparently adopted some of Nichigen at Nishiyama's views.

In 1482, Nichiu of Taisekiji tried to annex Koizumi Kuonji. However, Omosu Hokke Honmoji Kongen, the de facto head temple of the Nikko lineage, sided with Koizumi, ending the debate. There was talk of a wooden Dai Honzon of 1279, in Nichiu's possession. The Abbot of Omosu accused Nichiu of forging it.

It appears that, sometime around 1500, the Hokke Shu was renamed Nichiren Shu. In 1515, Omosu Honmonji Kongen officially took the name Omosu Honmonji. The Nichiren Shu Komon Ha was officially founded that year, based at Omosu Honmonji.

In 1548, the Juhonji Temple & Jogyo-in in Kyoto were re-united and rebuilt as Yohoji or Yoboji Temple. Hongaku Nichidai's theories were discredited by his successors.

Around 1581, it appears that Nishiyama made a claim to be the legitimate Honmonji, and were supported by the Takeda Clan, who were, at the time, the ruling Kanto Region warlords. The Nishiyama claim wes likely based on a "Nikko to Iyo Nichidai Heritage Theory." Talk of the forged transfer documemts surfaced once again. Nishiyama still stands accused, by Taisekiji, of stealing the original transmission documents from Omosu/Kitayama. Taisekiji alleges these were never recovered.

By 1630, the Tokugawa Shogunate had defeated the Takeda Clan in the region. In 1632, Taisekiji was completely burnt down & rebuilt, by the Tokugawa, at Ueno.

It is also in the 1600's that there is the first detailed description of the current camphor wood "Taisekiji Daigohonzon". The first mention of it outside of the Nikko lineage was apparently in the "Kecho Sho", dated 1662. In addition, a clearly forged Gosho, the Jogyo Shoden-sho, appears around this time. While neither Nichiren Shoshu nor SGI wishes to promote this "Nippo Fairy Tale" in detail, it is, in fact, a primary source authoritative, for their version of the origins of the Nikko-Fuji School. It is the sole source explaining the origins of their Daigohonzon and 9 cm Nichiren statue.

1874: The Meiji Government merged the Komon Ha with the Nichiren Shu Shoretsu Branch.

1876: Eight Major Temples of the Komon Ha withdraw from the Shoretsu Branch.

1899: Komon Ha of Nichiren Shu officially became Honmon Shu, based at Kitayama Honmonji. A "Ha" is a sub-school, rebel sect, or faction; a "Shu" is an actual school recognized by the Central Authority. Kitayama is the modern name of Omosu Village.

1900: Taisekiji withdrew from Honmon Shu and became Nichiren Shu Fuji-ha.

1912: Nichiren Shu Fuji-ha becomes Nichiren Shoshu.

1941: Honmon Shu rejoins Nichiren Shu

1949:

Yoho-ji seceded from Nichiren Shu and became Nichiren Honshu.
Nishiyama Honmonji seceded from Nichiren Shu and revived Honmon Shu
Hota Myohon became Independent.
Shimojo Myorenji at Ueno joined Nichiren Shoshu.
Kitayama Honmonji, Koizumi Kuonji, and Jitsujoji Temple at Aizu

remained with Nichiren Shu.

1957: Hota Myohon joined Nichiren Shoshu

1992/3: The "Shuso Gosenge Kiroku," which contains the "Real Transfer Docs", 'resurfaced' at Nishiyama; i.e., they become public domain for the first time in many centuries. These debunked the inheritance documents belonging to both Taisekiji and Nichiren Shu Ikegami Honmon-ji. So exactly when and how did Nishiyama acquire the "Shuso Gosenge Kiroku?"

1996: Hota Myohon left Nichiren Shoshu

1999: Honmon Shoshu surfaces with {among other things}, evidence that Nichiu lived another 10 years to 1292. They produce treasures that they say Nichiu took with him from Taisekiji in 1482: -- The originals of the legendary Aizen/Fudo Kankenki {authenticated} -- An original draft of the Kanjin-no-Honzon Sho -- A wooden Honinmyo Dai-Honzon dated 1279. -- An alleged decree by Emperor Godaigo, dated May 29, 1335 (Kemmu 2), that sanctioned a Honmonji. They say it was delivered by the Imperial Messenger Fujiwara Sukenobu to Nitta Nichido at Taisekiji on June 7, 1335. -- A Clay Relic Statue

with metta

robin

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Talk:Nichiren/Archive 2

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Interschool Legitimacy Disputes (1)

Nikkō as Nichiren's successor

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