Talk:Niagara Falls

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Former featured article Niagara Falls is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
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[edit] Better areal photo

How about this one? http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/Images/niagarafalls_IKO_2004215_lrg.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.177.68.21 (talk) 08:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] older entries

What official designations do the Falls have, you, know, Wonders of the World and all? Isn't the State Reservation the first ever state park in the US?


I thought there were three viewing towers on the Canadian side, not two. Lee M 03:48, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

There are two main towers, the Skylon and Minolta. A third tower is now part of the Casino Niagara complex, but I don't believe it's open to the public as an observation tower at the moment and is generally not considered by the people of the city to be "one of the towers." That being said, the current high rise hotel developments dwarf the older towers, so their prominence in the skyline and as observation posts has dwindled. --Avwhite 06:08, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

lol weeee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.155.71.185 (talk) 05:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] David Copperfield

I thought David Copperfield's plunge was an illusion. Rsduhamel 21:10, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Honeymooners

The article describes the falls as a "favorite spot for honeymooners". Which honeymooners would that be? Gdr 08:56, 2004 Dec 28 (UTC)

The falls are a popular destination for newly married people who live on the East coast of canada and the united states.

[edit] swap out the non-gfdl postcard?

I have some from a recent trip which may work to replace the non-gfdl photo at the bottom of the article. See 1 2 3 4 5 for example. or do a search for "niagra". Any of them that are mine (Luke Stodola) are listed as CC-BY-SA; I give permission to use GFDL instead. Comments? Luke 08:34, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The postcard is an illustration of the Falls' significance in culture, not something that any personal photo can accomplish. Additional photos would be very desirable to add to our stock at the Commons, commons:Niagara Falls. Stan 12:24, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] how high is niagara falls

Niagara falls is 186 feet high

[edit] Worlds largest Ice Block?

Is it true that the winter of 1925 was so cold, Niagara Falls was frozen?

Yes, but I'm not sure of the date because my research on the subject has turned up different results:--User101010 03:09, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
From Niagara Parks:
The flow of water was stopped completely over both falls on March 29th 1848 due to an ice jam in the upper river for several hours. This is the only known time to have occurred. The Falls did not actually freeze over, but the flow was stopped to the point where people actually walked out and recovered artifacts from the riverbed!
From www.iaw.com/~falls:
The American Falls water flow was reduced to such an extent in 1909, 1936, 1938 and 1949 that it froze over. On February 7th 1936, as a result of an ice jam at the eastern end of Goat Island the American Falls froze completely. The flow started to freeze on January 27th. The American Falls remained frozen for a period of 15 days before the ice dam upriver broke apart and returned the flow of water of the Falls to normal.
The April 1909 ice flow was sufficient to dam off the flow of water at the eastern end of Goat Island. What water was left (a mere trickle) quickly froze. People were able to walk on the river bed just above the American Falls where there was normally water. It wasn't until the ice jam shifted and broke apart, that the water flow was returned to normal.
A second similar ice jam occurred in January of 1938. The ice jam was so substantial that it too cut off the main flow of water to the American Falls. Again the American Falls was reduced to a trickle and quickly froze. More importantly, it was this ice flow that caused the collapse of the Upper Steel Arch Bridge (Honeymoon Bridge).
From http://www.niagarafrontier.com/icebridge.html:
The Niagara River handles approximately 212,000 cubic feet of water per second. The average depth is approximately 16 feet with a flow rate of 4 to 8 miles per hour. The Niagara River does not freeze over. The Falls of Niagara and the river below is the same. The volume of water going over the Falls and the depth and speed of the water below the Falls also precludes freezing. The water will not be stopped or be frozen solid. Atkinson 04:23, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Most powerful in the world?

Okay, where exactly comes the notion that Niagara falls are the most powerful in the world? I see there is a source, but all the numbers I've seen say that Niagara pales compared to Boyoma Falls, Victoria Falls etc. I found this link according to which Niagara is biggest in North America but only 6th overall. --130.231.240.17 17:45, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I will change the line back to lgst in NA. It appears the source was reproducing a myth... Niagara is definitely bigger than Victoria BTW, as your link shows. It seems there is some debate overwhat constitutes a waterfall. The first on the list here drops 315 ft over 9 miles, while it admits that Boyoma, ranked 3rd, probably shouldn't be considered a waterfall. Marskell 18:15, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Unfortunately, there appears to be no authoritave source. Reported maximum and average volumes seem to differ as much as 50% depending on source. Several sources do report that both Victoria and Iguazu falls have higher maximum volume than Niagara. In average volume, Niagara is equal or ahead (many waterfalls in tropics become mere trifles during dry season). It seems likely that merely by maximum volumes, Niagara would not make top ten. However when considering only vertical waterfalls and average volumes, Niagara may very well be near or at the top. Guaira Falls were undisputably greater, but they are now under artificial lake. --130.231.240.17 11:17, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
That Niagara is larger than Victoria is anecdotal but I've also heard it ad naseum. The conventially repeated point (given that they are the two best known) is that N. is most voluminous, Victoria highest--both statements appear to be untrue. "When considering only vertical waterfalls and average volumes, Niagara may very well be near or at the top." Yes, exactly--in reading about the others it seems I'm reading about rapids not waterfalls as often as not. As a true waterfall, Niagara doesn't pale in comparison to anything ;). Marskell 11:24, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Too many images ?

Does anyone else agree that there are too many images ? If so, I will try and clean it up a little bit. It seems like a mess to me right now.

I agree, but not strongly. The 2nd Horseshoe Falls shot is now superfluous, and the one above the Falls at night adds little. I like the historical photos, which were part of the article when it became "featured." Sfahey 04:50, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Alright, i've reinserted the historical photo. If enough people agree that the page has too many photos, I will try to clean it up. sikander 14:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Good work. I think this article looks great, and is a tribute to the team approach that is wikipedia at its best. Sfahey 15:26, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I just came across this article, and think most of the images look good. Except the placement of the panoramic photo seems awkward, as often is the case with this type of image. How about just making it a "thumb" and right (or left) aligning it. I dislike it when the article specifies a particular image size, rather than allowing user settings in "my preferences" -> "files" to prevail. Also, I suggest getting rid of Image:Niagara-falls-large-letter-postcard.jpg (or at least making it smaller). --Aude 16:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I think it looks better now, but I like the postcard, as long as it's stuck down with the footnotes.Sfahey 22:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe if the postcard were smaller, it would fit in better. --Aude 23:22, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I think the panoramic photo looks a little ackward as Kmf164 stated. I think it would be better at the bottom of the page so the article will flow a little more. Right now it just cuts off the article. The night photos adds a nice contrast I think (I added them lol) and they should stay ;-) Decimal10 22:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
There is same picture twice? The horseshoefalls from the Canada side? Why? -Black Eagle from finnish Wiki 80.186.139.167 20:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] how far away is Niagara Falls from Buffalo

Anon user 207.255.236.69 asked that question. The answer is about 22 miles, depending on whether you go over the brink or not. People have tried barrels, rubber tires, rubber balls, etc., but the safest way is with a brinks truck. Wahkeenah 00:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Niagara Falls "switched off at night"?

I have a calendar from the UK academic/training organisation City & Guilds which contains a "fact" for every day of the year. The fact for 5th March is (the exact words) "The Niagara Falls are switched off at night". Is this true??--195.172.170.130 07:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

  • There an old joke that some tourist (a blonde, presumably) asks a public official whether they turn off the falls at night, as if the Niagara River were a spigot. They turn off the lights on the falls at some point, but typically not the falls themselves. Wahkeenah 16:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually this is partially true. During the nighttime around 80% of the Niagara's water flow is redirceted to the power stations. During the day only around 40% of the water flow goes to the generators. So this is kindof true. Probably should mention in the water that the falls hasn't seen 100% water flow for around 100 years now --T-rex 21:33, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I got in touch with City & Guilds about this and they replied quoting from the Worldbook encyclopedia: "Water flow: United States and Canadian hydroelectric plants divert some of the water through tunnels from the Niagara River before it reaches Niagara Falls (see NIAGARA RIVER (Water power)). For scenic reasons, however, the amount of water that may be diverted is regulated by a treaty between the United States and Canada. The treaty states that at least 100,000 cubic feet (2,800 cubic meters) of water a second must pass over the falls during daylight hours of the tourist season. At other times, the flow may be decreased to 50,000 cubic feet (1,400 cubic meters) a second." So if not switched off it is at least turned down... --195.172.170.130 07:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I have no earthly clue what you are talking about, but the falls have not been shut off since '69, and that was only the American falls, because the Canadian falls are able to handle the extra water. I do not think it would be possible to shut off all three of the falls, as the water absolutely HAS to go SOMEWHERE. I don't think it would be possible to shut off the Canadian falls alone either; they're just too big, and the American falls would likely be unable to handle so much extra water. SilentWind 21:32, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


i was just reading this post and really alot of pepole think that, i work at the park during the summer as a side job and i get asked that at least 3 times a week. wow pepole ask stupid things.... hohlederschatten

[edit] Sam Patch's Fate

I grew up on Sam Patch (and other "tall tales") and was under the impression that the jump cost him his life. The article about Sam Patch says as much, since apparently he jumped multiple times and the last jump was fatal. Yet the mention here makes it sound like he jumped and everything was hunkey-dorey. I tried to work out a way to say it ("During a later jump, he dislocated both shoulders and died"?) but it sounds clumpsy. (Yes, clumpsy, not merely clumsy.) It also disrupts the flow of the paragraph. Can someone think of a better way to phrase it to include this information? (I wouldn't think the presentation were really MISinformation, except for the strong impression I got of "What, you mean Sam Patch SURVIVED the fall??!!") Kilyle 09:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

- Sam patch survived the Niagara fall. He died jumping in the Genesee River in Rochester. I've clarified the Sam Patch page. For pictures of his grave stone see: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=3227 --Dspark76 (talk) 01:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Attractions

There isn't really alot about Clifton Hill. Does anyone think that a new sub title "Clifton Hill" should be added to the article? Decimal10 06:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Niagara Tunnel Project?

There's an article at [1], about a new plan to build another generating tunnel under Niagara Falls, ON. Anybody have more info on this? - RealGrouchy 07:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Niagara Falls Frozen?

Do the Falls freeze over?

http://fivecats.wordpress.com/2006/06/12/now-thats-cold/

Yes, but it has not happened in a long time. Scroll up to "World's Largest Ice Block" (item #5) on this same page for more info. User101010 02:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the Niagara Falls in particular, but yes, waterfalls can freeze over. However, in most parts of the world where there are waterfalls it never gets cold enough for that to happen. I think the Niagara Falls may have been frozen at some point (as in millions, if not billions, of years ago). Also, I should mention that the faster water moves, it is less likely to freeze over. So as my conclusion, Niagara Falls would likely never freeze over. It would never get ANYWHERE NEAR cold enough in that part of the world, and the water is just too fast. SilentWind 21:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

It happened in several years and there are pictures of it happening, admittedly it has not happened in the last 50 years or so, but I still think that it is worth mentioning. Lastly, speaking as a Canadian, -40 is pretty freaking cold. We get sprays of water from the great lakes that freeze in the air, making very pretty ice formations... but the point is, it freezes. --Waterspyder 18:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
A little research (from googling ""Niagara Falls" frozen photo) shows that the answer is yes…and no. The Falls has too much flow to completely freeze over; however, on several occasions ice floes from Lake Erie have combined to dam up the water, particularly on the American side where there's less flow. Especially in the old days, before an ice dam was built to prevent too much buildup of ice at the lip, this was a common enough occurrence to be noted. Several copies exist on the Net of a photo from 1911 of the American Falls, pretty much frozen over.[2] The only known time when the ice dam was sufficient to stop all or almost all of the water from going over Horseshoe Falls was March 30, 1848.[3][4][5] Since this bit of trivia comes up on a fairly regular basis, it would probably be appropriate to insert a summary of these events into the article. (Incidentally, I don't think it gets to -40 at Niagara Falls. The temp may reach -10°F, -23°C, on occasion. Wunderground shows the record low for many January days in the range of 0 to -8°F [-18 to -22°C].)--HughGRex 11:29, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


Niagara Falls would not have frozen over millions and billions of years ago since Niagara Falls is only 9000 years old at best. It also has way too much flow to freeze over. It did stop flowing several times when there was a upriver strong wind during the spring ice breakup and the ice blocks formed a dam. The falls stopped flowing. see http://www.onlineniagara.com/info/falls-stopped-flowing.htm Rkeene0517

[edit] Twenty-Six Images

There are currently twenty-six images in this article and many of them depict exactly the same thing: a typical image of the Falls. In a featured article especially, gratuitous images should be avoided. Removing the gallery, which just consists of nine images from different vantage points, would be a good first step toward alleviating the image overload. Any comments? -- tariqabjotu 03:19, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

  • actually I thought the gallery was a good place to store all the images so they wouldn't clutter the text of the article itself --T-rex 03:32, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I'd support deleting the gallery. If any of these are better images than those linked from the article body, change the link. If we want a gallery of images of Niagara Falls how about a seperate article? -- Rick Block (talk) 03:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Would linking to the commons page work just as well? -- tariqabjotu 10:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I tend to be of the same mind set as Rick, either a seperate article or move the images to the commons and link the page. My concern was removing of the images without discussing it. I'd support the article having access to the images via a link of some sort. In my opinion, Niagara Falls is one of thoses things that just needs to be seen (even if by photo). —MJCdetroit 12:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Pls leave most of the historical pictures, which were there when the article went FA. Sfahey 21:53, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Not to worry... the images in question are that big block in the bottom, which I admit, are a bit much. SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

I added a photo and changed a couple pixel sizes, forgot to log in until now, WayneRay 15:47, 17 September 2006 (UTC)WayneRay I've posted an external link to a 'virtual tour' of the falls and it keeps getting removed. There is nothing on the tour soliciting business nor is there a charge to view the tour. It is just something that I shot when I was there and thought that people would be interested in viewing. http://www.OnlinePropertyShowcase.com/showcase/10039

[edit] Converting references

Would anyone be vehemently opposed to my converting the references (footnotes) to the current format with <ref> tags? SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

If it makes the page look better and work better than I wouldn't be opposed to that. MJCdetroit 03:37, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Done. References converted to current format, along with some general cleanup. SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:02, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery removed

Now that all of the images in the gallery that weren't already on Commons have now been transferred there, and since we've already got a link to Commons on here, I've gone ahead and removed the gallery section from the article. My reasoning is that it doesn't seem to add much to the article, and is better done as an off-article link to Commons. SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:02, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

You missed a few images and I renamed the tag to show "Niagara Falls image gallery". All in all, it looks good. —MJCdetroit 15:06, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning of "Niagara"

Just heard on PBS documentary: "Niagara" comes from an American Indian word, meaning "thundering waters."[6] This should be verified and added to the article. Badagnani 02:12, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

No. Niagara means 'the neck' or 'strait' as in a neck of land between the finger lakes area and Canada. The Thundering Waters stuff was made up by some newspaper hack for PR purposes. The tourism industry has propagated the 'Thunder' idea to the point that it has become 'fact'. Rkeene0517

[edit] Suicides at the Falls

It was also stated on the PBS program that someone commits suicide at the Falls once every two weeks.[7] This should be verified and added to the article. Badagnani 02:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian vs Horseshoe Falls

The name of the the three waterfalls at Niagara Falls are American Falls, Bridal Veil Falls and Horseshoe Falls. "Canadian Falls" should be replaced throughout the article with "Horseshoe Falls". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.186.139.167 (talk) 15:14, 18 November 2006

Speaking as a Canadian (albeit never having been to the Niagara area), I've always heard of them referred to as "Horseshoe falls." Perhaps the term "Canadian Falls" is a US differentiation? --RealGrouchy 03:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Though Americans (i.e., people from the US) certainly make reference to the "American side" and the "Canadian side," they generally call it "Horseshoe Falls." After all, the Horseshoe Falls is not wholly located in Canada; it forms part of the border. I certainly agree that the article should properly call it "Horseshoe Falls." I've replaced the two incidents of "Canadian Falls" that I found in the text.--HughGRex 12:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I've heard it as Canadian Falls sometimes in Canada but never in US. The fact it is not completely located in Canada (over 90%+ though... see Google maps--demarcation runs through Canada until the very end) seems kind of irrelevant anyway. Lake Ontario is not wholly located in Ontario. --Ano

[edit] i don't know how big it all is how big is it?

Help i need bad help how big is it all together thx.

[edit] Unsigned/unjustified edit: please review

The edit reflected in this edit comparison [8] seems arbitrary. Can someone check to confirm that none of this was vandalism? Thanks. --RealGrouchy 22:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Historical

The historical section mentions that Samuel de Champlain wrote about the falls in 1604. I suspect the date is in error -- Champlain did travel in the region of the falls once, but it was later, circa 1615. If this is going to stay in, the 1604 date ought to be changed. --Voodude 16:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

"A number of figures have been suggested as first circulating an eyewitness description of Niagara Falls." -This section is terribly Euro-centric and wrong as presently worded.

[edit] Niagara frozen

Check out these photos: 1, 2, 3, 4. ~ UBeR 20:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should mention be made of Sherlock Holmes?

I was wondering if it should be mentioned that this is NOT the falls that Sherlock Holmes died on, that was Reichenbach Falls in Switzerland. I know it sounds kinda silly to mention something that's NOT about the falls but I have found an alarming number of Americans believe Holmes "died" at Niagra Falls. Nothing elaborate, just a simple sentance under "Other". Your thoughts? Padillah 18:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

While I can't say I've heard that, even if it is a common misperception, the clarification belongs on Sherlock Holmes, not here. --RealGrouchy 23:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Parent With Heroes.jpg

Image:Parent With Heroes.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Many verifiable references needed ASAP

Large sections of the article not sourced. The extensive (and informative) Formation section has only three inline cites, even though it contains such statements as "Some controversy exists over which European first gave a written, eyewitness description of the Falls", and "There is credible evidence, however . . . .", with no supporting reference. The next section, Impact on industry and commerce, is similarly sparse in citations despite a huge amount of information. Much of the balance of the article suffers from the same problem. I have the impression that original contributors just felt the mention of Encyclopedia Britannica at the bottom was sufficient. As it stands now, readers can't be certain of the accuracy and verifiability of much of the article's content, and/or there should be concerns about WP:COPYVIO. I'm surprised it was rated FA.

It might be a good idea to initiate an intensive effort to take each section and source it with inline cites as quickly and as thoroughly as possible. Otherwise much of it should be deleted since it has been tagged for nearly seven months with little or no improvements.
—  Jim Dunning  talk  :  17:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Preservation???

i find it most remarkable that preservation only seems to refer to the falls themselves but not their environment. the urban development on the canadian side is appalling and i wonder where it will stop and what will be next: perhaps a roof over the falls? every time i come for a visit to show my home town to my kids there are more towers and high-rise hotels and we feel like in las vegas.

when i was a boy myself, we used to point to the american side and remark how ugly it was. dirty factories and old high-rises dominated the skyline and spoiled the otherwise wonderful view. in the meantime the americans did a pretty good job demolishing some or most of the factories and buildings and keeping the open space around the falls clear of any development. we much more enjoyed strolling through the park-like american side of the falls than the totally built up and messed up canadian side. the falls have been subject to so many alterations in the past they were alway kept hidden as good as possible. the skylon tower was the first major step away from protecting the environment of the falls, but it remained alone for quite a while. but raking in more money was too hard to resist and developers finally got their way. how can the small strip of green along the canadian side of the falls be called "park"? it's an amusement park alright! i wonder if the falls were ever considered to be a world heritage site and whether they still are.

the last time i visited niagara falls 2 years ago i decided it would be the last time. it's too sad, frustrating and upsetting. Sundar1 10:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Parent With Heroes.jpg

Image:Parent With Heroes.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot 23:41, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Stratigraphy of the falls.

I have been trying to resolve some scientific references for the claim in the Formation section that . Three major formations are exposed in the gorge that was cut by the Niagara River. citation needed I see lots of cross sections of the falls and such on non scientific pages (read -commercial). Then there are deep science PDF articles on very specific layers or issues. Any ideas how to resolve this? Rkeene0517

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Parent With Heroes.jpg

Image:Parent With Heroes.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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[edit] Niagara Falls, Goldstream Provincial Park, British Columbia

I couldn't find any information or even mention of the falls in Goldstream Provincial Park in BC that are also called "Niagara Falls". Link: [9]

I wasn't sure whether I should update the main page, or perhaps the disambiguation one.

[edit] names and location

this discussion about correct names and the exact location of the falls made me curious and check out a number of maps, including survey maps and info-sites including other wikipedia articles, e. g. u.s.-canadian border. if at all, they always show the border coming from the middle of the niagara river following closely the southern shoreline of goat island, thus putting the horseshoe falls quite firmly (about 90% of its width) into canadian territory. i suppose it's safe to write that the horseshoe falls is "mainly" on the canadian side of the border.

interestingly i came upon american sites that call the horseshoe falls "canadian falls", mentioning horseshoe falls only as a second possibility. i guess "canadian falls" inevitably evolved as opposite to "american" falls and logically, because it is mainly on the canadian side. Sundar1 15:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Google Maps is your friend, and features high quality GIS data. The demarcation point between US and Canada generally ARE the Falls: that is, the New York/Ontario border is split between the edge of the river (NY) and the falls (Canada). However, it's not a perfect border. There is at least one place where at least 2% of the falls are veering into the American side, without including the area immidietely touching the American shoreline, which is demarcated American as well. Over all, I'd say about 10% of slightly less is American, but this is by no means exact. Ano

[edit] Help!

I just added a citation for Ragueneau describing Niagara Falls, but I'm new and I don't know how to do sources/notations. Can someone fix it and show me how to do it? Lafarge Dodger 00:31, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Fixed for the moment with simple ref tags. Just take a look at the edit diff. This simple fix can be improved on with a brief title/description following the url. Vsmith 01:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Luna Island

I just created an article for Luna Island. You can make it better! Please consider editing it as well as Bridal Veil Falls. With your help, I bet Luna Island could be a great candidate for the Wikipedia:Did you know section of the Main Page. --User101010 02:39, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Draining Lake Erie? Are you kidding?

The article states, "Although engineering has slowed erosion and recession in this century, the falls will eventually recede far enough to drain most of Lake Erie, the bottom of which is higher than the bottom of the falls. Engineers are working to reduce the rate of erosion to postpone this event as long as possible."

This does not make sense. When erosion eventually moves the falls to the Lake Erie head of the Niagara River and begins cutting into the lake bed, the water will just fall into the gorge, just like it does now once it travels down half of the river. If the entire lake could drain away, it already would have through the river. The only time when Lake Erie would dissapear is when the falls cuts its way back across the lake to the Detroit River - THEN no more water would flow into Lake Erie, and would instead go into the falls channel. Lake Ontario is already lower in elevation that Lake Erie - that's why the water "falls" in the first place, but you don't see the entire water in Lake Erie draining empty like a bathtub now, and that would still be true when the falls reaches the lake. The level of the lake is the same as the upper Niagara River. No mater where the falls are located, that level would remain exactly the same.

The keeper of this page needs to get someone to put a citation and a scientific rationale for the basis of the article's statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.139.228.193 (talk) 21:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Once Niagra Falls makes contact with Lake Erie, the top of the waterfall will only drop in altitude as the erosion progresses into the lake. The drop in altitude will then correspond with the drop in the lake's water level. The lake could completely drain, as opposed to mostly drain, if the fall reaches the deepest portion of the lake, which is at the eastern basin off Long Point. Put it another way, it is impossible for the lake to drain without the erosion. However I think the bigger concern right now is that further change of landscape by erosion could potentially cause immediate damage to nearby property. —Tokek (talk) 11:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rate of erosion

Article states[10]:

The original Niagara Falls were near the sites of present-day Queenston, Ontario, and Lewiston, New York

Some questions:

  1. What does "original" mean, here? Was the original contributor referring to a time when the falls were actually formed, or when white people first discovered it? Or the location according to native american legend?
  2. When was it located at this point?
  3. How fast was it eroding before engineering efforts, and how much did the engineering efforts change this rate?

—Tokek (talk) 10:54, 29 November 2007 (UTC)