Talk:Newspaper of record/Archive

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Would you really consider The Times to be a newspaper of record these days? It is now a tabloid with an unfair bias to the Labour Party! Perhaps The Guardian should be seen as a possible candidate owing to its switch to Berliner and Simon Jenkins joining it - various commentators agree with this suggestion in the press.

Hence I'd suggest moving The Times to possible and bringing the Guardian in as a possible as well.

Regards, --Mrclarke 14:05, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wall Street Journal? Really? Is that not notoriously a politically-driven right-wing ultra-liberal newspaper? Granted that decided political views aren;t necessarily a bar to something being considered a newspaper of record, I'm not sure that the WSJ really has this status.

As for the UK, I think the Guardian probably does.Palmiro 11:06, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

The Independent a newspaper of record? Ridiculous! It is a left-wing, bordering on far-left, viewspaper! Will delete if no objections. --Mrclarke 07:51, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

The Independent certainly isn't far-left! I rather doubt that it could be described as left-wing at all. You can't delete it on that basis. Palmiro 18:34, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Do you actually consider it a newspaper of record? --Mrclarke 19:09, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Good question. 'Newspaper of record" seems to be defined here as pretty much the same as what "quality broadsheet" meant while the English ones were all still broadsheets (from the article: it means "a newspaper with high standards of journalism"). In my view, the Independent does fall into that category.

However, my understanding of "newspaper of record" is more something along the lines of "the authoritative newspaper, a newspaper that's widely agreed to be the primary reliable record (or one of a very small number of such) of a country's life and its political life in particular." Not very well-expressed, but perhaps you can see what I'm getting at. And I don't think either the London Independent or the Telegraph would qualify on that basis. But for the moment, that's not the definition that this article's based on. Palmiro 17:06, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I'd agree with you there. This page has been expanded by many users, who really seem to have added their personal favourites. Neither The Telegraph or The Independent should qualify. I don't know about other countries, but I think these should be included:

UK - The Times, Financial Times (world), The Guardian

USA - The New York Times, (The Wall Street Journal), The International Herald Tribune (world)

Italy - Correro Della Sella

France - Le Monde

Germany - Die Welt

Australia - (The Australian)

India - Times of India.

This page needs a major overhaul in my view. It currently contains every British 'quality' daily! I think that the old definition said something about the newspaper having to be known across the world. In my opinion, the only British newspapers that meet that requirement are the three I have listed. I've bracketed papers I don't know much about - The WSJ and the Australian, and I hope others can tell me if these should qualify. --Mrclarke 19:05, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with your suggested procedure. The first step is to find a suitable definition to slot in as the first sentence in the article. Then we can carry out a triage on the claimants to newspaper of record status.

The difference between The Times and the Daily Telegraph, or Le Monde and Le Figaro is exactly the sort of thing we need to point up. Palmiro 19:25, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

How about: 'A newspaper of record is an internationally recognised publication, with high standards of journalism and no political bias in its news coverage.' Most on the list would not meet the internationally recognised section or the political bias section, although they have high standards of journalism. --Mrclarke 06:36, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree there has to be a clear definitive guideline as to the difference between a "quality" newspaper (like The Telegraph) and a newspaper of record (like The Times). I'd also suggest that The Independent is a newspaper of record, despite its left-leaning status. It is comparatively "independent", and is not half as left-leaning as The Guardian. Obviously the Tory-Telegraph is in a league of its own as to bias. Deano 19:49, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I think that The Daily Telegraph, The Guardian and The Independent are all Newspapers of Record and desvere their status alongside the FT and The Times. The Daily Telegraph has high quality sports and business coverage, The Guardian is internationally aclaimed and The Independent has some of the world's best journalists like Robert Fisk and Patrick Cockburn.

The Christen Science Monitor should also be on this list because dispite the name the paper is very well regarded and is not a fundamenslist paper.

The Australian Financial Review is the leading business newspaper in Australia show it should be on the list as well.

Is the Irish Independent a Newspaper of Record I would like to know. The Champ

The Daily Telegraph and the Guardian are definitely not newspapers of record, despite the fact they are broadsheets. The fact that the Torygraph has high quality sports and business is irrelevant - it's the main section that matters, and in that it is not even close to being neutral. The same (but opposite) can be said the the Guardian, despite the international recognition of Guardian Online. The Indy is interesting, because common belief is that it is left-leaning, but I reckon it could qualify. However, the other two definitely don't. I have no idea about the international ones you mention though. Deano 19:53, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I did not mean the UK Independent but the Irish Independent and I would also like to know if the National Post from Canada and The Washington Times are Newspapers of Record.

The Guardian and The Daily Telegraph are both world-class newspapers you should really read them. The Champ

I am not arguing that the Daily Torygraph and the Guardian are not quality papers - they are. But they are not "Newspapers of Record" because they are undisputably biased. That is all there is to it.

I have no idea about the other newspapers you mentioned though... Deano 17:07, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

The Washington Times is owened by The Moonies Church, National Post was founded by Conrad Black and Irish Independent is from the Republic of Ireland and is different to the UK Independent. The Champ.

Why on earth is The Washington Times and USA Today doing on this list? Surley The Guardian and The Daily Telegraph should be on the list instead. The Champ

Firstly - The Champ. Just put four "~" at the end of your comment in order to produce your proper wikipedia name. It isn't hard! As for Washington Times and USA Today, I am a passionate advocate of boycotting all American media, so I have no idea about any of them. The downside of this life philosophy is that I consider them all equally crap, but cannot delete any in particular... so I leave it to other people. I concentrate on the UK. Because that I know. Deano 15:27, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

The New York Times have chosen The Daily Telegraph as their choice for their international weekly edition and The Guardian is well respected around the world, in fact when I was in France I saw it more often than The Times. So surley they most be included. The Champ

Once again, do not anonymously contribute. It REALLY isn't that hard to put four tildes at the end of your paragraph (i.e. ~ ~ ~ ~ without the spaces). It is especially annoying when someone else has to go back and sign off paragraphs for you!

In France, the British newspaper you are most likely to see is The Daily Mail, which we all agree is not even close to a NoR. Newspapers sold abroad are entirely dependent on who owns various newspapers and the deals ownership consortiums make with each other. They have no basis on the relative quality of the newspaper.

Both the Telegraph and the Guardian are quality newspapers, but neither are neutral, and therefore neither are "of record". Unless the Guardian swings rights and the Torygraph swings left, that is never going to change. And unless the paper is neutral, it cannot be "of record". Nothing else matters. Deano 12:54, 13 November 2005 (UTC)