Talk:Newfoundland and Labrador

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Newfoundland and Labrador
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[edit] Miscellaneous discussion

I have added * Newfoundland and Labrador Links, first to Miscellaneous and then to External Links on the Wikipedia Newfoundland&Labrador page, only to have it removed by cmh. We have had the discussion below between the 999s. I have taken Colin's suggestion and moved the discussion here. I would appreciate some feedback from the NL editors. I don't see * Newfoundland and Labrador Links, as 'spam' and over the past 12 months approximately 40,000 page views would indicate that there is an appetite for this NL data collection. More than half of the traffic is return visitors. Thanks to Colin for the discussion, and I look forward to your opinions.

999 User talk:IamMacArthur From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please do not add commercial links or links to your own private websites to Wikipedia, as you did in Newfoundland and Labrador. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links. See the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. -- cmh 23:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Please stop adding commercial links to Wikipedia. It is considered spamming, and Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising. Thanks. -- cmh 19:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Pardon my inexperience at this, Colin! How is my link different than VisitNewfoundland.ca which appears in the same section. "Something for Everybody" is more than a 'mere' collection of links; I would challenge you to find a similiar website that has more Newfoundland and Labrador content. There are currently more than 1500 links on this site and most of them are NL decicated. My site is not a commercial site; I have never earned 2 cents from it.

If you would examine the content instead of parsing it with your clever script/bot you would see that this link is appropriate to Wiki re Newfoundland and Labrador. ARE YOU the final arbiter of content???

Thanks. -- Mac 22:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Mac, thanks for responding. The link you are adding is to your personal collection of links on NL. This is not encyclopedic, as per Wikipedia's Wikipedia:External links policy which states not to link to "A website that you own or maintain, even if the guidelines above imply that it should be linked to." The guideline only mentions "one web directory" in terms of web directories, and yours is neither open-source nor annotated. (There is no content but links on your page, which is not useful to those looking to an encyclopedia for prose.) Why not treat the topics in your list in the encyclopedia instead of insisting on a link to your own site?

Regarding commerciality, many of the links on your page are not related to NL and are to businesses. I am not the final arbiter of spam, but others are not stepping up to the plate to defend your link. There is no script. -- cmh 22:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Colin,

Your continual condesending references to spam are unwarranted. If I add a link and 'you' arbitarily delete it; how can anyone come to the plate? It is the 19th of July after all; many people (unlike you and I) have a life and are probably on vacation with their friends and family.

Why don't you leave the link alone for a week and see if others appreciate the content or object to it. I spent 38 years working in the data/computer field, I have an appreciation for data integrity. Most of the links on my page are annotated with title tips that are displayed when you hover a la text tips. This is to provide the user with information to let them ascertain whether they might be interested in the link in question.

Have a nice day!

-- Mac 23:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

At this time I see no reason why the link should be there, it violates the external link policy, and I do not believe it adds value. Should you wish to obtain support for the link, I recommend you discuss with other editors at Talk:Newfoundland and Labrador. At this time I don't believe I have more to say on the topic. -- cmh 03:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

999

Have a nice day!

Mac 13:25, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree the term "newfies" may be derogatory and insulting, but racist? Let's be real here.Loomis51 22:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the official name of Rhode Island actually something like Rhode Island and Providence Plantations? Of course, everyone just calls it Rhode Island. I am curious if anyone in Canada is actually going to use the new official full name when referring to the province.

Many people call it just Newfoundland, but I've seen much more "Newfoundland and Labrador" than I've ever seen "Rhode Island and Providence Plantations"; the name's official for all intents and purposes, and Canada Post is changing the two-letter abbrev. from NF to NL. - user:Montrealais
As a footnote, a lot of people still say "St. John's, Newfoundland", but then again I've heard "Happy Valley, Labrador" too. Both names are strictly speaking correct - they just don't refer to the province. - mtlais

This is a name change that resulted from the people of Labrador feeling ignored by the island portion of the province. By including it in the official provincial name, they felt it would officially recognize them. It's an important symbolic gesture. - JustinBathurst

Note on disambiguation: the province is at Newfoundland and Labrador, the island at Newfoundland. Historical references to the province before the name was changed should be to [[Newfoundland and Labrador|Newfoundland]]. - Montréalais


That map is horrible by the way. Although I guess you already knew that. Are there any other sources of free maps out there? dave 18:09 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

This article says that the island was inhabited by the Inuit and Beothuk. Did the Inuit really range this far south, or is this a mistake for Innu (who are First Nations, not Inuit)? - Montréalais

I know there were natives on the island (I've been there, the Newfoundland museum), and I looked on the web. The Beothuk and and Micmac were the only native peoples to inhabit the island. Vancouverguy 16:50, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Is "noofin-LAND" really the only acceptable pronunciation? All my relatives from Newfoundland pronounce it like that, of course, but everyone else emphasizes the "found" part...or sometimes even the "new" is emphasized. Shouldn't that be mentioned as well? Adam Bishop 02:56, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Elsewhere in Canada, they say "NEWfinland" or "newfinLAND." "newFOUNDland" is barbaric. - 67.68.242.174

Just to clarify, we're talking about official pronunciation. People in English parts of North America often pronounce foreign names differently, but it doesn't mean it impacts the official pronunciation. Besides, Newfoundlanders speak a dialect that often has different stresses on words. This is one of them.

[edit] Adding a folklore/cultural subject to NL & Lab entry?

Do you think it would be worth while to have some information on the cultural aspects and folklore of Newfoundland? There can be included Newfoundland Stories and Newfie Jokes and things about how various towns meet or met their needs through fishing, hunting, trading. el gato sólido

[edit] Disputing the "Republic"

Newfoundland was never a republic, so I wonder whether that reference should be removed from the article. In recent years it is becoming common to see T-shirts featuring the old Newfoundland pink, white and green flag and the words "Republic of Newfoundland." However, this is more of a political statement than a reflection of true history.

I believe it was the Dominion of Newfoundland. This is the basis of the Republic that is becoming more urgent these days among many Newfoundlanders.

Becoming more urgent? It's another townie nationalist fad that crops up from time to time. Newfoundland never was a republic. This is entirely ahistorical.

Quite. Newfoundland has always had a monarch as the head of government --- before and after we received representative and then responsible government --- never a president, hence the word 'Republic' is nonsensical. Iainsona 04:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official language

This says, "Official language: English and French." Does Nfld-Lab actually have official language legislation stating this? Or is this just a claim about government practices? As far as I am aware, New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province, as specified in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. At any rate, even if this is the case, the provincial symbols box is a somewhat incongruous place to put it. - Montréalais 18:54, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

NL has federally designated bilingual areas, those being Port au Port, some areas of Labrador and St Johns. We're not "officially" French. JellieBellie 14:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] City Populations

I've put in a table of city populations by urban area. I prefer Statistics Canada's "Urban Area" designation to the municipal stats, because if you're visiting this page to learn about the Province, it lists off the various population concentrations. Basically, it's defined by uninterrupted population density, so it's not about commuter populations (for example, Witless Bay is not considered part of St. John's, but Mount Pearl is, and that tip of Paradise that sticks down is, because the streets all connect, and the population density just continues right across.) In the long run, I actually think it's more valuable information than municipal population, because, unless you're interested in taxation base or municipal goverment (sure, some are, but this is an overview article) it's more useful to know about the population base, not the city limits population. AshleyMorton 15:44, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The "Urban Area" stats for most NL towns are utterly useless and should NEVER be used. The "Urban Area" stat for Happy Valley-Goose Bay, for instance, is substantiall smaller than the town's population, let alone its even larger cachement area. "Uninterrupted population density" is a dumb standard to go by. It has also led people in some towns to believe that their populations have shrunk, or shrunk more than they actually have, because they compare "Urban Area" to the previous full municipalities population.

[edit] External Links

IMHO, I believe that the list should be kept to a bare minimum and on topic. The list of items have or will have topics written about them, which is where most of those links will eventually wind-up. Comments! HJKeats 13:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more. I have trimmed a lot of the Miscellaneous links (mostly spam or other violations of WP:EL). What I think needs to happen next is to take the Communities section and turn it into links to the articles on the communities and move the ext links for those communities to those articles. Likewise with the Newspaper section, leaving only those that are N&L-wide. Maybe some of the History links should also be moved to local articles? Anyway, it definitely needs work! -- Mwanner | Talk 21:49, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
The links for communities is unnecessary, again IMHO, as a list currently exists of the communities (List of communities in Newfoundland and Labrador). This list can be used as a To-Do list for creation of the articles and by osmoses, as the articles get created those links will reappear. I would say lets trash the community links! HJKeats 22:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, I've started with Baie Verte. This won't be a quick and easy task-- many, maybe most of these towns need (at least) new stubs created. I'm inclined to leave the long list of Community external links until we have them all moved to community articles, then delete 'em all at once. Onward and unpward. -- Mwanner | Talk 23:29, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, it's not that bad-- I've done the first 16, and only had to create four. I'll get back to it tomorrow unless someone beats me to it (hint, hint). -- Mwanner | Talk 00:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Done. Had to create a couple of dozen, and some of the articles are kinda sub-stubs, but the links are all preserve. -- Mwanner | Talk 21:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


I changed some historic sites from external links to wikilinks to existing articles. The list of newspaper is totaly out of place on the province page, as many are local papers (and the links would belong to the communities that they serve, if there...) Qyd(talk)02:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link spam and the overuse of external links in this article

The use of external links as a means of redirected readers to further information must be kept to a bare minimum and used only as a means of shoring up a fact, view, opinion or backup to a legitimate resource. If a statement is made within the text of the article (keep in mind that it has to have an encyclopedic context) and an external weblink can be cited as a reliable and legitimate source then some professionalism must be applied by using reference notes. HJKeats 13:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved links from article

Looks like the consensus is that all those external links are overkill. I am moving all links forom the article here, in case someone wants to use them in related pages:

Main: Maple Leaf Web: Newfoundland & Labrador and Canadian Federalism•Newfoundland and Labrador - Words and Sayings•CBC Digital Archives - Newfoundland and Labrador Elections Newspapers:The Advertiser•The Aurora•The Beacon•The Charter•The Coaster•The Compass•The Express•The Georgian•The Gulf News•The Humber Log•The Independent•The Labradorian•The Muse•The Northern Pen•The Norwester•The Packet•The Pilot•The Southern Gazette•The Telegram•The Western Star Historic sites':Cape Spear•Signal Hill•L'Anse aux Meadows•Red Bay, Labrador•Battle Harbour•Avalon Colony•Hawthorne Cottage•Castle Hill, Placentia•Ryan Premises, Bonavista•Port-au-Choix•Newman Wine Vaults History and heritage:"The Tenth Province: Newfoundland joins Canada, 1949", by Melvin Baker•Crossroads For Cultures•NF & Lab Heritage•Heritage Structures•Heritage Foundation•Grand Bank Heritage Society•Beaumont Hamel•Nfld Historic Trust•Provincial Archives•Nfld Genealogy•Religion, Society & Culture•Placentia Historical Society•Nfld Overseas Forestry Unit•Renews Heritage Committee•Newfoundland Rangers•Newfoundland Salt Fisheries•Off Da Rock•Ten Historic Towns•Historic photos of Nfld & Lab Miscellaneous:BitStop - Images of Newfoundland•Newfoundland Backcountry

In case some links are relevant to the province (but not parts of the province or other related articles), please add them back (as references preferably). Please don't put them all back, as this is a blatant case of link repository . See WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files. --Qyd 22:21, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please expand

Was going to refer a friend to this article (she's travelling in Newfoundland), but it really needs to cover the economy, geography, politics and such. Would appreciate expansion, thanks. A-giau 06:31, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official Languages

Menchion 06:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)In the info box, it stats that the official language is english, but there should be a section that says: spoken languages. Have you even heard someone from NL talk? we are speaking a words that the rest of canada exept Alberta dosn't understand, 3 times faster then everyone else. EX. 'oly crap ole man, that plane ride from Edmonton ta Grande Prairie was the most bumpy flight i'd ever took. You is just sitting there on air canada jazz, a prop plane, then you is hitting an air pocket and you shoots 10 degrees off verticle, then you levels off and your prate and frazzled. then after you lands your right contrary and you swear that if you ever move back to newfoundland your not taking that flight again, eh b'y?

another example: I purchased a barbecue and put that one in, caught the buggar on fire, the cover snapped with a dirty big SNAP and then lard jumpins the coal rocks caught fire, the front legs rusted out from underneat' it. then the whole thing fell down and burned down me patio deck.

so b'ys, my point is that there should be a spoken languages section there, newfinese fits there my sonny b'y im tellin' ya. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Menchion (talk • contribs) 06:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I love this idea -- couldn't there be [the option of] a section on any article on any (smallish) geographic region about "dialect" -- local or regional? I have in mind a little text box with names of "common dialects" and maybe a few choice words/phrases. This might be tough (impossible) to do per country (I think there's like one dialect per every three people in China, for example), but it seems feasible per city. Some dialects are super-famous anyway, and have entire articles devoted to them already (Cockney, Creole, Appalachian English, Mandarin, Maltese, etc.), so it isn't that farfetched to me to consider popping a little info-box on geo pages -- nothing as complex as on the pages for the dialects I listed above; just a tiny little friendly thing to make the article a little richer. Menchion, I propose you research and create such a thing for at least your area of Newfoundland. Sugarbat (talk) 03:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

In the info box, it states that the official languages of NL are English and French, if ym memory serves me right, New Brunswick is the only province in the country where English and French are both official languages of the province. English is the only official language of NL, someone needs to look deeper into this because i don't believe that this is correct.

I don't think that Newfoundland and Labrador has any legislation on official languages, I believe English is de facto. I can't find anywhere that actually says that though so I'll leave it up to someone else if it should be changed or not. Jeremiad 21:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official flower, tree, and bird

I think these should be removed from the main infobox (especially since images are included) and moved to the box directly following including other official items (animal, mineral, dog, tartan, seal, logo, etc.). If there are no objections over the next while I'll make the change. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 15:43, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Strong support, especially since the boxes overlap on wide displays (a shorter top box would fix the problem). --Qyd 16:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Agree with your observations. HJKeats 17:03, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What is this?

Are the page authors aware of the content of the last sentence on this para?

I have tried to delet this irrelevant content in 'edit', but have been unable to do so.

While the name "Newfoundland" is derived from English as "New Found Land", Labrador is named after Portuguese explorer João Fernandes Lavrador. Santana is the worst baseball player eva'.

[edit] Languages in Intro

A response I posted to the anonymous user's talk, reproduced here he he or she will probably never see that talk page:

I am again reverting your re-addition of the names. First off, just because something is found in another article is not a reason for inclusion in this article (perhaps, in fact, the other article's inclusion is also not appropriate). In Nova Scotia, the first is a translation of the Latin, so it's different. As for the Gaelic, I would argue that it is not appropriate. Now, for the Latin on the Newfoundland page, while it has historically been called "Terra Nova" poetically, it certainly has not ever been called that in common use. In addition, the Latin does not include a reference to Labrador. As for the Irish, it is somewhat interesting in that Irish is the only language that has an original name for Newfoundland (the rest are translations), however, again, it's not really of use in the intro. It also loses some of its interest when Labrador is included in it (since historically it wasn't called a name including Labrador, and that removes the whole original name bit, too). └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 20:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] redirection

'Newfoundland' has been switched to redirect here instead of to the 'Newfoundland' entry. This should be fixed back by someone who knows how to do it. Saying that it should redirect here is like saying that 'Ireland' should redirect to the entry on the republic, or northern ireland or even Great Britain —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.163.222.34 (talk) 10:00, May 10, 2007

It is not like saying that at all. When people speak about "Newfoudland", they generally are referring to the province. The province is the most important item, and so the redirect should go to it.

=== yes and when people speak about 'ireland' they are 'generally' referring to the country - the 'republic of' ireland. yet if you type in ireland, it goes, as it should to the page on the island with links to click on the republic or whatever else one was looking for...

Ireland is a different issue as it is politically split. If there were only one political entity on the island, then undoubtedly, Ireland would redirect to the Republic of Ireland (actually, the name "Ireland" would likely be taken up by the Republic of Ireland article, since "Republic of" is not actually part of its official name, only a descriptor, and there would be no redirect at all).
I stand by the decision to have Newfoundland redirect to the most important entry commonly going by that name, that is the important province which was formerly called Newfoundland—what, I ask you, would you propose, if the province actually still was called just "Newfoundland"?—and have a link above to direct people to the island if they were actually looking for that article. Lexicon (talk) 15:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

=== what would happen if the province was still simply called Newfoundland is irrelevant. the only thing called newfoundland today is the geographic entity of the island of newfoundland. therefore, typing 'newfoundland' in should take you, as it has for quite some time now, to the article on the island of the same name with a link at the top of the article saying 'for the province formerly and still sometimes colloquially called newfoundland click here...' or something to that effect.

Of course it matters, and of course it is relevant what things in the past were called "Newfoundland". This is an encyclopedia, not a "Provincepedia". People will intend all sorts of things when they look stuff up. We have to take into consideration place of origin of the reader (which includes assumptions they might make based on that place of origin) and place in time of the use of terms (we cannot pretend that Ancient Rome is Italy, now can we?). Wikipedia is made for all readers and covers all subjects, including political and other entities throughout history. What was and is still colloquially called "Newfoundland" is very relevant to what "Newfoundland" should redirect to. Lexicon (talk) 18:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • right, and this is exactly my point. you are acting as if when people say 'newfoundland' they are automatically referring to the province, and my point is that this is absolutely not the case. in fact, when most people say they are going to newfoundland, they mean the island, and when people from newfoundland say they are from newfoundland they mean they are from the island, and when people say they want to learn more about newfoundland, they usually mean the island and it's culture, history, etc.-not the political entity of the province of newfoundland and labrador. this is exactly why typing in newfoundland should, as it has for quite some time, take you to the article on the island, not the province which has not called itself newfoundland since 1964! having a link atop the island page pointing to the province clearly solves the problems you are identifying with having newfoundland redirect to the island page instead of the province page and that's why it should be left the way it was.
    • And I am saying that you are wrong in your assumptions. Newfoundlanders may mean that, but the majority of people do not. If I asked someone "Where are you from?" and they said "Newfoundland", I would totally not be surprised if in response to my follow up question of "Which part?" They said "Goose Bay, Labrador." Now, I understand that a Labradorian would probably not say they're from "Newfoundland", but a non-Newfoundlander such as myself would absolutely (Menchion 06:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)But your not a newfie, im a newfie. there should be newfies updating this page not canadians or United-Statesians - unless you one that moved from newfoundland, if you are, retain your newfoundland heiritage dang it!Menchion 06:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)), I can assure you, understand someone saying they're from "Newfoundland" as meaning the province. Lexicon (talk) 18:53, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
  • So you are aware that most Labradorians would never refer to themselves as being 'from Newfoundland", but you think the article on Newfoundland should redirect to the article on the province of Newfoundland and Labrador because a non-Newfoundlander would assume someone saying that they were from Newfoundland meant that they might be either from the island of Newfoundland or from Labrador? That is nonsense. Please see my reply on the talk Newfoundland page as you indicated the discussion should continue there below. Mícheál 02:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I'm married to a Newfie, I've been to Newfoundland. Before this, I most definitely would not ever have understood "I'm from Newfoundland" to not mean the province. And I still, even though I understand that Labradorians wouldn't generally say they're from Newfoundland, wouldn't be surprised if one did. That's the basis for this—what the majority of people think when they hear "Newfoundland". Lexicon (talk) 15:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opinions wanted on "Newfoundland": Redirect to the island or to the province?

Please see Talk:Newfoundland (island)#Newfoundland redirect: Island vs Province and contribute to the discussion on what Newfoundland should redirect to. Lexicon (talk) 18:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Nl-coat-thb.gif

Image:Nl-coat-thb.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 15:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some advice

From my experience over at Minnesota the "notable people section should probably be moved to it's own page. They usually tend to just be a big magnet for random edits. -Ravedave 16:12, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Working on it. I've already cleaned out the "Notables" section on the related Newfoundland (island) page and moved people into appropriate categories if they weren't already there.Vulcan's Forge 19:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Nl-coat-thb.gif

Image:Nl-coat-thb.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 00:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 Religious strife

To write about mid19th century Nfld without any real mention of conflict between Irish Catholics and Protestant West Countrymen is a bit like Hamlet without the Prince of Denmark! I have tried to remedy the deficiency. Newfoundland solved problems which Ulster took about another 140 years to do so. A miniature Belfast became a peaceful St John's.

[edit] Notable Newfoundlanders and Labradorians

Removed the content from the list, after confirming that all the elements on it were linked to an appropriate category or on the List of people of Newfoundland and Labrador. See extensive discussion here for the reasoning behind this move. The category pages still need cleaning up and a lot of people need to be properly categorized and linked to them, but the representative lists from this page and the Newfoundland (island) page are more or less complete.Vulcan's Forge 02:25, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New France

Hello all, I was glancing through certain pages and found that there is a major inconsistency in what is being reported. This article almost has no mention of New France, stating only that it was almost conquered by New France, while the New France article talks about how it was part of New France until the Treaty of Utrecht, and Template:Former French colonies in the Americas includes it from 1655 – 1763. Either some discussion should be added here in the History section, or it should be corrected in the other articles.

Similarly the Template:Portuguese overseas empire includes both Labrador and Newfoundland as part of their empires. Regards, -- Jeff3000 13:57, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopedia of Newfoundland and Labrador (ENL) citation

I don't understand the citation "Joseph Smallwood ed. The Encyclopedia of Newfoundland and Labrador St. John's: Newfoundland Book Publishers, 1981-, 2 vol." at all. Is there any chance someone with an actual academic background can it explain it? The ENL is 5 volumes, the first 2 of which were edited by Joseph R. Smallwood. The first volume was published in 1981 and the second in 1984, so what does the "1981-" refer to?

(For the sake of completeness: The remaining 3 volumes were edited by Cyril F. Poole, published in St. John's by Harry Cuff Publications, 1991-1994.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.148.183 (talk) 14:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] The long-form name is the "Province of Newfoundland and Labrador" via a 2001 Constitutional Amendment

The Dominion of Newfoundland (1907-1949) decided to join Canada in 1949 as a Province, and changed its long-form name accordingly to the Province of Newfoundland. Later, in 2001, a Constitutional Amendment was passed that FORMALLY STATED that the Province of Newfoundland shall be known as the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. The text of this LEGAL DOCUMENT is quoted below,

1. The Terms of Union of Newfoundland with Canada set out in the Schedule to the Newfoundland Act are amended by striking out the words "Province of Newfoundland" wherever they occur and substituting the words "Province of Newfoundland and Labrador".


http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/cap_2001nl.html

Constitution Amendment 2001 (Newfoundland and Labrador) [SI/2001-117 - 6 December 2001]


Canada

By Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson, Governor General and Commander-in-Chief of Canada

To All to Whom these Presents shall come,

Greeting:

A Proclamation

Whereas section 43 of the Constitution Act, 1982 provides that an amendment to the Constitution of Canada may be made by proclamation issued by the Governor General under the Great Seal of Canada where so authorized by resolutions of the Senate and House of Commons and of the legislative assembly of each province to which the amendment applies;

And whereas the Senate adopted a resolution on November 20, 2001 authorizing an amendment to the Constitution of Canada;

And whereas the House of Commons adopted a resolution on October 30, 2001 authorizing an amendment to the Constitution of Canada;

And whereas the House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland adopted a resolution on April 29, 1999 authorizing an amendment to the Constitution of Canada;

And whereas the Queen's Privy Council for Canada has advised me to issue this proclamation;

Now Know You that I do issue this proclamation amending the Consitution of Canada in accordance with the schedule hereto.

In Testimony Whereof I have casued thise Letters to be made patent and the Great Seal of Canada to be hereunto affixed

At Government House, in the City of Ottawa, this sixth day of December in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and One.

By Command, JEAN CHRÉTIEN Prime Minister of Canada ANNE McLELLAN Attorney General of Canada BRIAN TOBIN Registrar General of Canada

SCHEDULE SCHEDULE

AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION OF CANADA

1. The Terms of Union of Newfoundland with Canada set out in the Schedule to the Newfoundland Act are amended by striking out the words "Province of Newfoundland" wherever they occur and substituting the words "Province of Newfoundland and Labrador".

2. Paragraph (g) of Term 33 of the Schedule to the Act is amended by striking out the word "Newfoundland" and substituting the words "the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador" 3. Term 38 of the Schedule to the Act is amended by striking out the words "Newfoundland veterans" wherever they occur and substituting the words "Newfoundland and Labrador veterans"

4. Term 42 of the Schedule to the Act is amended by striking out the words "Newfoundland merchant seamen" and "Newfoundland merchant seaman" wherever they occur and substituting the words "Newfoundland and Labrador merchant seamen" and "Newfoundland and Labrador merchant seaman" respectively.

5. Subsection (2) of Term 46 of the Schedule to the Act is amended by adding immediately after the word "Newfoundland" where it first occurs the words "and Labrador"

6. This Amendment may be cited as the Constitution Amendment, 2001 (Newfoundland and Labrador).

ArmchairVexillologistDon (talk) 07:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment User:ArmchairVexillologistDon has been asked to seek consensus for these changes before instituting them, and has been repeatedly reverted by different editors at the various provincial articles. --Ckatzchatspy 09:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Ckatz, do you deny that this Constitutional Document verifies the long-form name of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador?

Well?

ArmchairVexillologistDon (talk) 10:25, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

It is unclear whether this document supports what yuou say. Again, as has been pointed out at various other provincial articles, it only verifies that the locution "Province of Newfoundland and Labrador" is acceptable to designate the province. It does not say anything about this being the long-form name, or set any order of preference relative to the simpler "Newfoundland and Labrador".--Ramdrake (talk) 14:22, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
It actually doesn't matter whether that's the long form name of the province or not; there's neither an obligation nor any discernible need to use any name other than "Newfoundland and Labrador" at the beginning of this article. You're quite obviously doing this in a misguided WP:POINT attempt to bolster the "Dominion of Canada" thing, so just look at any state of the United States: with the exception of Massachusetts, which begins the way it does because its longform name is the unexpected "Commonwealth of..." rather than "State of...", they all begin "Name is a state...", not "State of Name is a state...". There's simply no need to say "Province of Name is a province..."; that's just redundant and unnecessary. End of discussion. Consider yourself editblocked if you pursue this any further. Bearcat (talk) 19:26, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


Hello Bearcat. With regards to the issue of the long-form names of the States of the US (i.e., State of the US is a formal rank within their Constitutional system), of the 50 States, 46 have "State of" as apart of their style and title. There are 4 with "Commonwealth of" as apart of their style and title.

Lastly, I do not apperciate being threatened by you Bearcat. I am not deserving of your hostility, or your pronouncements. Please direct them "elsewhere". Thank you.

ArmchairVexillologistDon (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.204.225 (talk) 17:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that this is a POINT issue. I imagine that Don really does believe in his reasonings. But I do agree with Bearcat's reasoning about why the "Province" part is not needed. I also don't agree with Don's reading of the document. I imagine that is why the community has banned original research in the first place.
I also wanted to remind everyone that only truly minor edits should be marked as minor. Anon. editors can not mark edits as minor. It is a trust that is placed in us as registered editors that what we mark as minor genuinely is. Many editors have their preferences set to ignore minor changes in their watchlists and they will not see your changes if you mark them as minor. If you don't know what a minor edit is, please see Help:Minor edit. Thanks. --JGGardiner (talk) 01:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cities

Can someone please tell me the largest 5 citys of Newfoundland and Labrador?

Sounds like homework. Well there used to be some info in this article but now you can find it here. In the future, you should know that article talk pages are for working on the articles. If you need help finding something, ask at the reference desk instead. Cheers. --JGGardiner (talk) 02:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much I had so much of a hard time searching I never knew the wikipedia had a Reference Desk. Cheers. Guess you learn something knew everyday. Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.134.182 (talk) 02:22, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

From my personal knowledge as a resident of the Province, there are just three cities in the Province. In order of population they would be: St. John's, Mount Pearl and Corner Brook.--HJKeats (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Talamh an Éisc

Does anybody know when Talamh an Éisc was first used for Newfoundland? As long as I've known, it has been Talamh an Éisc in the Irish, but I came across a story of Dubliners sailing to Newfoundland to fish as far back as 1600, and I know Wexford and Waterford have had a long fishing history with the place. But I cannot find a date for the first record of this most interesting and descriptive of Irish placenames for a place beyond Ireland. 86.42.103.235 (talk) 15:45, 26 March 2008 (UTC)