Talk:Newcastle upon Tyne

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Contents


[edit] Novocastrian

Where does this word come from?

The term 'Novocastrian' is used as a term to describe a person born in Newcastle, Australia. It also refers to any person born within the old medieval city walls of Newcastle upon Tyne, England, UK. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.241.66 (talk) 01:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I live in Newcastle upon tyne and have never heard this word before. No-one refers to us as this and I would not refer to myself as this!

Novocastrian Is Latin for a person from Newcastle. www.toonhistory.co.uk

I quickly searched google, It points to several websies on newcastle.au That's australia. I think that's where this info is from.

it's wrong

It's historic, but has fallen out of use. There's Novocastrian rugby union club ("Novos"), and a Novocastrian social club in Arthur's Hill as two examples. The phrase isn't nearly as common as Liverpudlian or Mancunian, but it does exist. I live in NuT as well. Grinner 10:21, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)
The term Novocastrian is widely and commonly used to refer to a person from Newcastle, NSW, Australia. Now tell me why /wiki/Newcastle doesn`t link to the disambiguos site instead of N on Tyne? Stepping on 100s of 1000s of feet here :) -Snorre/Antwelm 09:40, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Well, I've changed the "novocastrian" redirect to link to the disambig page. Grinner 14:16, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

I know the Royal Grammar School in Newcastle refers to its alumni as "Old Novocastrians".

I can second that as I used to go there! It's not the only place I've ever heard it, though most other places have been reference sites such Wiki rather in everyday use.

In the commentary to the video NEWCASTLE, a Journey Through the Ages, the word Novocastrians is used to describe the crowds flocking to see the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh in 1954. This commentary is formal, but not excessively so.

Bandalore 18:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


Gateshead has much better tourist stuff than newcastle. The beautiful new Gateshead bridge and the Gates head Baltic.

And the Sage, yes - but that's three things. As mentioned below, the bridge cannot be called Gateshead's. Newcastle has many more touristy things than Gateshead. I was born on the south side of the river so I should be biased towards there if anything, but there's no denying that Newcastle is the more popular tourist destination.

Ahem - the bridge connects Newcastle with Gateshead so can't be counted as belonging exclusively with either.

I'll bet Paris is even better, but we don't need ot mention that Newcastle has no Eiffel Tower. Morwen 22:33, Jan 15, 2004 (UTC)

The main Gateshead tourist attractions you mention merely bask in the reflected glory from across the river.

[edit] Angel

Why does it say the Angel is on the southern approach to Newcastle? I hope this is not one of those complex wikidisputes about cities and towns and unitary authorities an ting but from my simpleton's perspective the Angel would have to be some miles north and east of its current location for this to be true. I am tempted to change it but I'd like to hear what anyone else thinks. 138.37.188.109 09:26, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Well, you're coming from the south, approaching Newcastle (according to the road signs) on the A1 and it's there. I guess it more comes down to how far away you'd class an "approach" as.
Ah, no. It - the Angel - is only on the approach to Newcastle in the same way as, say, High Barnet or Durham or Embleton is. Otherwise, no. The road signs are too vague and may denote direction, but cannot be taken as a guide - except in the most phenomenally broad sense - to "approachness". That it is on the approach to Gateshead is more sensible but really it's on a road which goes *round* Newcastle rather a lot. The wise and cool person above is right, bless their socks. Ah yes, it's me. Tsk. 138.37.199.206 15:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, it's gone anyway. I should have checked. What a waste of ink, sorry! 138.37.199.206 08:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bridgecruft

If you look at the Millenium Bridge you will see it touches down on the Northside on a piers that stands in the Tyne. As a result it doesn't actually bridge to Newcastle at all. (what?)

The bridge *must* at some point connect to the Newcastle side of the river or it'd be a pretty useless bridge!

In terms of charges the Newcastle couldn't organise a p**s up in a brewery remember the Gay Festival debacle - oh and wasting several million pounds of rate payers money on Capital of Culture. And demolishing most of Graingertown to build the Eldon Centre. (and other whining)

Was the Capital of Culture bid a waste of money because they lost? Or would it have been a waste anyway because you regard it as pointless?


Perhaps I should point out that the Gay Festival in London was a financial flop too - and so was the one in Sydney. It wasn't only Newcastle who failed in the City of Culture bid: Birmingham, Belfast, Oxford, Brighton and others did too. Europe is littered with 'failed' cities. Eldon Square was violated, and the Royal Exchange demolished, but a great deal remains of Graingertown. Grey Street was declared the finest in England recently by CABE. AND the Norwich Union atrocity is coming down - by public demand.Really, aren't whinings of the above nature better addressed to the Journal rather than in an encyclopaedia context?

Emmet 21.1.06

[edit] Pictures

There are some nice public domain images of the area available for download at the Library of Congress. My suggestion is to download the full size TIFF version, open it in Photoshop, resize it and then change it to indexed colors and save it as a PNG. If you need help with this, send me a message. --[[User:Brian0918|brian0918 talk]] 03:33, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The 'Slug like' Sage Centre was recently awarded the worst new building award by Private Eye.

I think that would be more appropriate on a Gateshead page, however. Jon Dowland 14:06, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Two years back Newcastle City Council and the regional development agency pumped several hundred thousand pounds into a film starring Patsy Kensit to improve the image of . it failed to get a distributor and was shut down after three days at a subsidised screening in Newcastle. Undetered Newcastle Council etc just pumped several hundred thousand pounds into 'The School of Seduction' starring Kelly Brook and Billy Zane which has also failed to attract a distributor. Currently filming in Newcastle is 'Goal' which also ...... (is a huge worldwide success)

I saw that at the Silverlink this afternoon and it played to a packed cinema. However, a mate of mine saw it in Leeds the night before and there were 12 people watching it!


What relevance have complaints about Newcastle City Council incompetence to an encyclopaedia article? Send your comments to Newcastle City Life, or the Journal. It's what the Australians call 'Crying stinking fish'.

Piloti's remarks in Private Eye addressed only the outside of the Sage. He was annoyed that it was actually a cliched design. He didn't criticise the interior and acoustic quality of the Sage. It would have been a cheek if he had, because London's big concert halls are both sub-standard. Conductors hate the Royal Festival Hall and NOTHING IS EVER RECORDED THERE, a damning fact. They have been tinkering with the Royal Albert Hall for fifty years, and the acoustics are still erratic. Nothing is recorded there either. All this refurbishment money (and it's still going on) comes out of the taxpayer. 85% of all arts funding is spent in London.

Piloti (Gavin Stamp) made a TV programme about Newcastle in 2005 and praised the city to the skies. He still didn't like the Sage design but strong;ly approved of Baltic and the Millennium Bridge.


Bandalore 21.1.06

[edit] Wallsend

"A geordie could also refer to someone from the area eg. Wallsend". Why Wallsend exactly? Why not Cullercoats or North Shields something like that, even Whitley Bay? An article about London wouldn't say people from Yeading are also known as cockneys. I'd say someone from newcastle is a geordie, someone with a newcastle accent has a geordie accent. However, most people from the area are labelled geordies anyway. Why Wallsend though?

I used Wallsend as an example, hence the e.g. I could have said North Shields or Whitley Bay, they would also have been examples. You are welcome to rephrase this section. Grinner 16:09, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The City

removed the following - seriously doubt that this is the council's main plan for economic regeneration for the city. Unless someone can give a source for this, it should go. Also have some doubts as to the accuracy of the second point. Only similar story I could find on BBC news, the victim made a (partial) recovery, wasn't beaten to death. Nasty as this incident was, is it integral to this article? AndrewMcQ 23:20, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • The Council's main plan for the economic regeneration of the City over the last fifteen years has been as a 'Party City' destination for 'stag' and 'hen' parties but this has resulted in significant public order and Policing issues and has acted as a disincentive for private investment. In 2002 there was a well reported incident when a member of a visiting stag party was beaten to death in a drunken brawl by an off duty Newcastle policeman.


__________________

I have installed a fair amount of early history (later history is vast) and rephrased the Geordie para. Most of Graingertown remains, thank heavens and Grey Street was declared the finest street in England recently by CABE, the Council for the Built Environment. I have heard something about re-facading Eldon Square.

The 'slug-like' description of the Sage was not Private Eye's (London journalists don't get about much) but that of their architecture correspondent Piloti (Gavin Stamp,whose views are individual.

Unless things have changed, the police have taken a relaxed view about the party city. With 100,000 people flooding in every weekend, the odd ugly incident must occur, I suppose.

Being European City of Culture brings great publicity and cash from tourism, so it's a worthwhile enterprise.

Emmet 18.14 15 June 2005

[edit] History/ Organisation

Perhaps there is enough History to create a new page History of Newcastle upon Tyne, with a more concise version on the main page?

Also, "The City" section could probably be split up into seperate sections and expanded. Perhaps having a Sport section, one for Universities/Colleges, one for Entertainment etc. What do people think? Johnwalton 11:29, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'd go with both of those ideas. Grinner 13:58, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
Okay, well based on that I've made a start. I've reorganised "The City" section and expanded some of the sections a little. Some of the new sections (notably Religion/Catholocism and Education) need expanding, but hopefully this will be a catalyst for someone to develop these. Unless someone beats me to it, I'll edit the History section down for the main page and transfer whats there now to a new page, probably tomorrow. Johnwalton 21:13, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Are you bored? There's DABing to be done...

If anyone's looking for time to fill, then there's a lot of DABing work to be done at Newcastle (disambiguation) :) The JPS 11:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] North Run Goody Bag

"Finishers are presented with a goody-bag which contains - among other prizes - black-pudding, pickled onions and beer"

Really? Seems highly dubious....

It's not the Great North Run, but the Blaydon Race (as the articel says). It's definately true, a mate of mine did it this year. Grinner 09:16, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Citizen

What qualifies someone to be a notable citizen? Place of birth? current residence? Titus Bramble was born in Ipswich. Numerous other NUFC footballers also live in Newcastle, so why is Titus in particular listed?

I removed him at some point in the past, and shall do so again. Personally I think the whole section should go. Any thoughts? -- Jon Dowland 10:39, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think the section should go, many other articles on cities have this included. However the title should not be so ambiguous. We should decide whether it's classed on place of birth, place of resident or both and change the title of the section accordingly.
I included Bruce Welch as (although he was born in Bognor Regis) he was brought up in Newcastle, and is therefore a notable citizen.....however if the heading should be changed to notable people born in Newcastle, then he should be omitted from the list.DavidFarmbrough 11:48, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Most other UK cities have a List of famous people from XX page, but it rarely seems to state what the criteria is. I think in general the net is cast pretty wide! Just thought I'd mention this. Grinner 12:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
When I did a major tidy to the Salford article, I established seperate subsections for 'famous people born in' and 'famous residents past/present'. The JPS 12:31, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


I agree with Jon Dowland. It's embarrassing that an ancient city like Newcastle, with hundreds of famous residents - Lord Armstrong, Mrs Gaskell, Thomas Bewick, George and Robert Stephenson, Mary Astell, Ove Arup, Basil Hume, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Charles Parsons, Israel Brodie and many more should be represented by a few modern footballers and musicians.

Jimmy Nail doesn't live in Newcastle anyway. If he qualifies then so should Rowan Atkinson, Ant n' Dec, Lady Lucinda Lambton, Mark Knopfler and scores more. If what is meant is present-day citizens, then the choice is again pitifully narrow. What about philosopher Mary Midgeley the human cloning people at the University, and prize-winning literary names like poet Sean O'Brien, novelist David Almond, Tony Harrison of the National Theatre, Lee Hall(Billy Elliot); etc. etc? Time for a re-think.

Emmet 28.9.05

Well add them then. In fact I will! Grinner 09:51, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Grinner. I didn't want to compile a list until the questions raised had been settled. Heaviside's residence was new to me. It seems a good list, though I'll add John Wesley and Jean-Paul Marat. Oh, and Sir Alfred Noble was a ballistics expert and industrialist, in charge of Armstrongs, effectively, from 1883 to 1915, rather than a physicist.

Emmet 25.9.05

Cheers. I must admit that I hadn't heard of most of the people, but it was fascinating reading, Heaviside particluarly seems worthy of more reknown. Grinner 09:09, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Surely - Tim Healy, Sir John Hall - MetroCentre, Donna Air, Jayne Middlemiss, Paul 'Gazza' Gascoigne, Tony Blair - PM, Steve Harmison - Cricketer, Kevin Whately, Jackie & Bobby Charlton -World Cup Winners and 'Wor' Jackie Milburn deserve to be in the list.

Gazza was born in Gateshead (Dunston, in fact) not Newcastle, and Tony Blair... wasn't he nearer Durham? I should go look that up. Thanks for adding the "Sir" to Bobby Robson in the list. I meant to do that when I tidied last night and forgot. Hmm, and I think Ridley Scott (and his brother Tony) were born in North or South Shields? Again, need to be checked. IainP (talk) 09:09, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Just did some checking - Blair was born in Edinburgh! Though he grew up in New Zealand and Durham. Learn something new every day... According to Wiki, Ridley Scott was born in South Shields and Tony Scott in Stockton. The Charltons, Steve Harmison and Sir John Hall are all Ashingtonians. Kevin Whately, Donna Air and Tim Healy were born in Newcastle - I've added/removed them accordingly. If I get the time today, I'll double-check all the entries on the list and remove those not born in Newcastle. IainP (talk) 09:26, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Tony Blair was brought up in High Shincliffe from age 5. He attended Durham Choristers School. He never lived in Newcastle. Rowan Atkinson was actually born in Newcastle though the family lived in Consett. The same goes for Lady Lucinda Lambton, who spent childhood years at Lambton castle on the Wear.

I see some cities simply have a section entitled FAMOUS RESIDENTS or equivalent and that includes people born there, and those who lived part of their lives there. That would solve the problem. Interested readers could then go on to the individual entries.

My information from the Northern Echo's NORTHERN PEOPLE - a good source because the entries are compiled by the individuals themselves - is that Kevin Whately was born in Humshaugh. He certainly acted in Newcastle as a young man and would qualify.

Emmet 17.1.06

The advantage with "birhplace" is that it's (usually) easy to find and it's a documented statement of fact. Someone who lived in the Toon (or immediately surrounding areas) for a week... does that count? A fleeting stay for 3 months while they worked on a panto? Is there a minimum residency time limit before they qualify, or do they have to have owned a property to count?
I know I'm chucking loads of questions in, but I promise I'm not trying to be awkward :) As an example, would the Charlton brothers still qualify? I have no idea where they lived after they were born in Ashington. Likewise Tony & Ridley Scott. Many people percieve them as Geordies or Toon-related because of the accent being "Geordie" (though in Charlton's case it definitely isn't if you're from the area!)
IainP (talk) 11:12, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


Yes, agreed about birthplace. Brief visitors,travelling actors or other performers do not count - even, in Newcastle's case the Beatles, Charles Dickens or Shakespeare who acted there in 1588! Property isn't necessary: many of Newcastle's famous residents stayed with relatives, or rented accommodation. Sporting mercenaries should not be included as a rule.

I would make three months residence the bare minimum (though there could be exceptions; George Orwell's stays in Wigan etc. were short but produced results of national significance). Wordsworth's sister Dorothy lived in Princess Square for three months and mentions it in letters. I haven't put her in yet, but I think she would just qualify.

It hardly matters whether outsiders perceive particular individuals as Geordies or 'toon related'. As long as birth and residence are verifiable, that settles the matter.

Iain, You might like to look at my website for NE famous people and literary folk of national note. There are loads of people who would qualify - and plenty of surprises.

www.myersnorth.co.uk

Emmet 20.1.06

Cheers, Emmet. When I get the time I'll have a look. At the moment I'm up to my eyeballs in selling my house and arranging storage for all my stuff while I fly off to Thailand and New Zealand for a year... I now fully expect NUFC to win the title next year without losing a single game as I've had to give up my season ticket. Gah. IainP (talk) 15:51, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


Deleted Robson Green today. He was born in Hexham.

Emmet 26.1.06

[edit] Education

The RGS apparently being recognised as one of the best schools in the north... as reckoned by whom? There are other private schools in the area and I'm sure most will lay claim to the same thing. Do we have any facts/figures from independant sources to back this up? As an ex-student there, I frankly hate the place, but will try my best to be objective if the current vague comment can be reworded or reinforced! Mosh 06:55, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

League tables, my good man; whether results alone constitute a good school is debatable but RGS does undeniably get results...not an alumnus; when I was at school we thought them insufferably arrogant and foolishly coiffured. Wouldn't send my own there as it seems to have become a bit f a sausage factory. "Chld does not live on homework alone, but a bit of football in the street and telly too".81.170.62.51 23:03, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


Although I would hate to wade into a quagmire, the type of comments as shown above is a source of great annoyance to me. As I have observed over the years, the people who find it easy to refer to private school children as being arrogant/snobbish/etcetera are either jealous or have been unfortunate enough to have come across the minority who ARE arrogant. My parents and grandparents all went to boarding schools (supposedly the most arrogant, snobbish and elitist type of school) and I can honestly say that they all are friendly, polite and humble, and so are all of their former classmates.

If someone were to say that all state schools are full of skinhead chavs who are obsessed with looking and acting 'hard', you would certainly object. It is true that such 'chavs' form a minority (or a majority, sadly, in some cases) in the state school population - and it is also true that arrogant/snobbish schoolchildren form a minority in private and boarding schools. The vast majority of private school pupils are very respectable people from respectable professional families. It would be wise, in the future, to keep one's generalisations to a minimum. OrangeSalochin 14 October 2006

[edit] Gateshead split

Still not sure about Baltic/Sage being mentioned here. Also what about Newcastle in Film/TV?

I'd agree with the Baltic/Sage thing. That really ought to be on the Gateshead article. With the two places bonding as part of the City of Culture bid (and beyond) it's easy to merge them by default. Also, the Toon on TV is a good idea. Start a list! Goal, Get Carter, Byker Grove, Spender... IainP (talk) 11:37, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Born In Newcastle

I've trawled the list, corrected some links and removed some names. To be specific:

  • Rowan Atkinson was born in Consett, Co Durham
  • Bobby Robson was born in Sacriston, Co Durham
  • Ridley Scott was born in South Shields

In addition, I have some which are "query-able". I've been through Wiki and Google for the following, but have left them on the list in the meantime:

  • Jack Higgins - According to Iblist [1] he was born in Belfast. On the other hand, according to Penguin [2], it's Newcastle.
  • Lucinda Lambton's father held a title in Durham and I can find no information on her actual birthplace
  • Jayne Middlemiss only ever seems to be listed as having been born in "Northumbria", not Newcastle

I've also dis-ambiguated a couple of links, but left those which have no article at the end of them in the hope something gets added. IainP (talk) 11:21, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Lucinda Lambton gives her birthplace as Newcastle (10 May 1943) in Northern People, a valuable annual supplement published by the Northern Echo, in which participants supply their own information. It's available on the net.

Bandalore 16.25 11 May 2006


[edit] Proposed removal

Is the section on the gay community really needed? I think it should be removed. Firstly, there are no cited sources, and that bit about the bars and clubs seems like a violation of Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising. Apart from that, IMO it is not what you would normally find in an encyclopaedia (it’s unencyclopaedic). There was a similar section in the article on Israel, which was about how Israel and Turkey are the only countries in the Middle East where people can be openly gay and how there has been an influx of immigrants from other middle eastern countries where homosexuality is illegal (Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc). They had clearly more to write about the subject than we can and yet, that section was removed (see the relevant discussion).

I have also noticed that Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities, which issues a standard layout for articles on cities does not include such a section and articles on other cities don’t include one either, the article on Newcastle now seems to be out of line with the majority of other city articles.

Anyway, this is just food for thought - please consider it. Izehar 18:28, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

It's accurate and concise. There's nothing particulalry controversial about it which needs to be cited. It is encyclopaedic because it accurately reflects part of the culture of a major British city. Wikipedia is not a soap box; however, this is not a rant. It is well written, and factual. The JPS 00:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I still think it makes this article appear inconsistent with other articles on cities (even cities with a more active gay community). Also, there are very few cited sources. Not just on this section, but on all sections. Maybe this is why this article didn’t become a featured article. I still think that that section should be removed. Either way, this article should cite its sources. Izehar 01:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps such a section would not accurately reflect the culture of those cities? There is little point in having a 'gay' section in the Sunderland article, for example, because, as far as I know, there is no openly gay culture. Newcastle, however, does, as with Manchester (which also has the relevant section).
It was nominated for FA status by a newbie with little comprehension of English, never mind wikipedia policy. The reasons it failed can be seen here.
I am sure that all of the facts in that section can be supported by trusted sources. Feel free to do a google search and add them, if you feel that the citing sources is a big issue. However, there are many sections in this article that do not cite sources. The JPS 11:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Just to add, I see absolutely no reason why this section should be removed. Grinner 15:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I have replaced this section and placed it in the more relevant pubs and clubs section. TTTV 23:11, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] love parade

The Radio 1 Love Parade was not going to be a "Gay Pride Festival", as is claimed. It was going to be a Dance Music Festival! Also, events were put on all over the city centre instead - not Whitley Bay (although there may have been some events there) Gp100mk 10:21, 20 January 2006

The love parade was organised by Radio 1, and the event that took place in Whitley Bay was organised by Radio 1: the DJs from the Love Parade (Judge Jules and Sonique being two) performed right on the Links. Whatever took place in Newcastle was not an "official" replacement for the Love Parade as it did not involve the same production teams. -- Jon Dowland 15:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm wrong on that assumption: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/loveparade/ indicates that the BBC did do some stuff in newcastle, too. Oddly there's no mention of the WBay festivities on that page (that I can find). I'm still trying to verify the love love parade was a gay pride thing, I don't remember it being such myself, either. -- Jon Dowland 13:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Borough laws

In Scotland in the High Middle Ages#Burghs there is an interesting reference to the borough laws of Newcastle as the model for burgh charters in Scotland. Nothing, however, about the origin of the borough laws, and I am seeing nothing in the Newcastle upon Tyne article. Laurel Bush 12:17, 28 January 2006 (UTC).


There's not much known about this in Newcastle, but I've been recommended to try Alan McInnis at Aberdeen University. I pass this on to you.

Bandalore 20:23, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. Laurel Bush 10:27, 7 February 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Edit

Seeing that this page was well over the 32kb Wikipedia recommends, I have edited it, replacing uneconomic writing and repetitions as well as merging other material. I've occasionally added some information too. It's now down to 31kb and I think it reads much more easily.


Bandalore 20:08, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to do some major editing on the Newcastle upon Tyne article.
I'm not sure I agree with some of the information you have removed. I've reinstated some of the information (such as the information in Demographics), as these sort of items are essential for the article to be properly encyclopedic. If you want to bring the file size down, try moving the born in/residents of sections to their own articles. I've also reverted some of your organisation changes, for example "Climate" is not suitably placed under "Urban development".
As the 32Kb rule is no longer a hard-and-fast rule, in future please discuss any major edits that you are planning on the talk page before going for the chop. The preferred method now, is expanding the individual sections of an article to a point where they can sustain their own page, at which point the information can be moved to a new page, and the abridged version can be placed on the main page.
I've (re)moved a little of the extra information that you added, such as the information about Fenwicks window, which is more suited to the Fenwick article. I've done the same for the Judaism information that you removed, moving that to Judaism in Newcastle upon Tyne.
Johnwalton 17:51, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


Thanks John for the advice. Points taken. I don't propose to do any more editing on the page. On specific points, I thought the demographic info was stated or implied in the red box at the head of the article. Average age seems non-essential, especially as it hardly differs from the norm. Likewise subjective feelings about health are hardly encyclopaedic, especially seven years old.

I have found that connections of famous people with Newcastle are poorly known: the list is therefore to prompt further inquiry. I have eliminated several in any case.

Did you see the Newcastle programme by Gavin Stamp (of Private Eye) on C5 this evening? I feared a carping programme but it was (following Pevsner) praise all the way-and beautifully shot. It really lifted the heart. I must get a copy.

All the best


Bandalore 21:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested Inclusion

The Newcastle hospitals should be mentioned? They score highly in the national statistics - especially the Freeman, which is the country's third transplant centre and has done some major pioneering work in recent years.


Bandalore 12:11, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

The Freeman hospital used to be mentioned, along with the fact that its the third transplant centre, but that's disappeared somehow! Hadn't noticed that it'd gone. Maybe there should be a seperate "Health" section, I don't know. How are hospitals handled in the other City articles?
Johnwalton 18:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

The Manchester entry doesn't even mention the Christie, the largest cancer treatment centre in Europe. I've inserted a small Health section which includes what I know.


Bandalore 23:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities

I've added Newcastle upon Tyne to WikiProjectCities. The project recommends that city articles include the following:

  • Introduction
  • History
  • major historical events that occurred in city
  • Law and government
  • Mayor or City Executive-- current, previous executives
  • representative body?
  • Geography
  • Physical geography (area, unique features)
  • Major Parks
  • Economy
  • Major industries/products
  • taxes
  • Demographics
  • city population
  • racial/ethnic makeup
  • religious makeup
  • Sites of interest
  • Colleges and universities
  • Sports teams
  • Notable natives
  • (Miscellaneous topics and similar lists)
  • External links

The most noticable ommisions from the NuT article at the moment seem to be law/government, major parks and economy. The introduction also needs expanding to 3/4 paragraphs. Johnwalton 22:13, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Category: Wikipedians in Tyne and Wear

Thought I'd mention this - there's a category, [[Category: Wikipedians in Tyne and Wear]], and so far I'm the only one in it. This can't be right (I live in Berlin as it is), so please add yourself to it if it applies to you. ProhibitOnions 23:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

For convenience, Category: Wikipedians in Tyne and Wear -- Jon Dowland 09:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Royal Grammar School removal reason

"The Newcastle Royal Grammar School is often claimed to be one of the foremost schools in the North of England." is the text I removed. I did ask ages ago on here is anyone could cite a source for this and nobody responded.

Looking at the school league tables and so on it is one of the foremost so the statement is true. However... every public school in the Newcastle area (Central, Church High, Dame Allen's Boys', Dame Allens' Girls and several others) all lie within a 5% spread of the RGS's results (based on 2002 figures). To name one would really mean having to name the others as they're so tight stats-wise.

As an aside, their figures were all between 50% to 55% capped average. Virtually every comprehensive scored around 30% to 35%. Guess it pays to have rich parents, and to run a school where you can hand-pick your students... *gets down off soapbox*

IainP (talk) 16:06, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

There are differences. Central is also "excellent" (results-wise) and would deserve a mention. Both are frequently listed among the nation's "best". Church and Dame Allen's perform a little less well on the same measures and are less frequently listed. Would be interested to see your analysis as at least on recent figures I don't believe the spread is so tight. No drum to bang BTW as alumnus of lesser left-footed institution!81.170.62.51 23:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I've removed some external links, as the section was becoming huge and erroneous. We can't have a link to sites which havw something to do with Newcastle: we'll end up with a huge section. I've removed links where the subject has its own article, such as sports teams, Eldon Square, Century FM and Metro Radio. I don't think links to pseudo-dating communities are appropriate either. The JPS talk to me 12:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

What do people think of the suggestion to excise the external links section entirely? I find that such sections add no value to wp articles and are always a hot bed of self-promotion and argument. -- Jon Dowland 09:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
We'll have to keep some in for verifiability issues, but we need to get rid of the promotions. I'd say keep the stuff about the city itself, and its history, but lose things like the gig guide. The JPS talk to me 11:13, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Most northerly city

I would like to take issue with the article's claim that Newcastle is the most northerly English city. I'm not entirely sure, but isn't Carlisle more northerly? There probably isn't much in it either way. Speaking as someone from the far west of Gateshead I should know. Although at a guess I would say Newcastle is more notherly, but various tourist agencies for Carlisle appear to deny this (see www.historic-carlisle.org.uk/historiccarlisle/go.asp?5) for example. hedpeguyuk 09:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


I have a good map of England, and Newcastle is further north than Carlisle. Newcastle is just above latitude 55 degrees North, Carlisle just below.

Bandalore 16.14 11 May 2006

I'd agree with that, although it is close. Carlisle Airport is 54.94 N, Newcastle Airport is 55.02 N, both airports are towards the north of their respective cities. johnwalton (talk) 21:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Newcastle is 5miles north of Carlisle

[edit] Name of city

Wasn't the city known as Monkchester between being known as Pons Aelius and Newcastle?81.170.62.51 23:12, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes --SandyDancer 10:04, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo suggestion

The article is nicely set out now. However, though the outstanding neo-classical late Georgian centre of Newcastle receives due mention, there is no photograph of it. Could we have one?


Bandalore 16.50 12 May 2006

There are some additional photos on the German Wikipedia. In particular, Bild:Newcastle greys monument.jpg. Perhaps you'd like to transfer one/some of those over to the English version. johnwalton (talk) 21:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nyborg

I removed this: "The name New Castle is actually named after the danish city called Nyborg. "

According to Google Nyborg can be roughly translated as Newcastle, but don't think there is any other connection. AndrewMcQ 18:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Newcastle upon Tyne as County Town of Northumberland

Historically, the County Town of Northumberland is not Newcastle but Alnwick, although Morpeth has some claim as the administrative centre for Northumberland. In fact, prior to the creation of the metropolitan borough of Tyne and Wear, Newcastle was a City and County in its own right and never part of Northumberland. The Welcome sign on entering Newcastle from the west stated "Welcome to the City and County of Newcastle upon Tyne" - I know because I was born and grew up in the west of Newcastle and remember the sign.Sinylg 13:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Newcastle was never a "County of its own". --SandyDancer 22:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

So why did it say so on the sign? I'd be interested to knowSinylg 17:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

In light of the above comment I did some research and found that around 1300 Newcastle was allowed to appoint its own mayor and a century later became a county in its own right. This information is readily available on the web. Could the article be amended to reflect this?Sinylg 21:39, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Aready appears in article under "early development" - Newcastle was successfully defended against the Scots three times during the 14th century and around this time became a county corporate. --SandyDancer 21:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

According to Sydney Middlebrook's 'Newcastle upon Tyne: Its Growth and Achievement' (2nd ed 1968) Newcastle received a new charter of incorporation from Henry IV in 1400 that recognised it as 'a county of itself'. The castle and its 'liberties' remained a part of the county of Northumberland - this enclave remained until reorganisation in 1974 and is the reason why Northumberland County Hall (now the Vermont Hotel) was built at that particular location. (FatGravyBoat)

Into the 1980's when a person was charged with an offence in the city police station the charge read, 'That you did, in the City and County of Newcastle upon Tyne, contrary to...' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.77.145 (talk) 13:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] {{unreferenced}} template

The article has been tagged as unreferenced, although I can only see one sentence marked as missing a citation in the article. Could those who feel the article lacks references please help to mark up the trouble areas more specifically? -- Jon Dowland 13:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Really, every section should contain inline citations, especially if there is a fact... We could put in the {{fact}} tags, but it would be peppered throughout the entire article. The JPStalk to me 14:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Btw, take a look at Sheffield -- that's a featured article, and is the level we should be striving for. The JPStalk to me 12:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tynemouth - village?

The article describes Tynemouth as a village. But it was an old town belonging to the Priory of Tynemouth, and was a county borough from 1894 to 1974 (albeit largely due to the presence of North Shields within its boundaries). Scarcely a village...

FGB —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FatGravyBoat (talk • contribs) 12:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Bands

People are always trying to advertise their bands on this page. Do we seriously want bands who fail WP:BAND and WP:MUSIC to represent the city? The two I have removed exist (they have mySpace pages!!!). One cannot be found on Amazon, however, and Ghits are pretty poor. The JPStalk to me 18:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm amazed it took you so long to find Martin Stephenson and the Daintees – They have been around quite a while! As for El Bistro, whom I reinstated and you have removed again, I don't know them, but I found that if I Googled "El Bistro" the top four hits are the band, and there are two more hits on the first page, another 4 on the second. 10 out of 20 can't be bad, surely? SiGarb | Talk 21:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry, I admit that 'Martin Stephenson and the Daintees' was about my own musical ignorance. As for the other one, notability per WP:BAND requires things like multiple, non-trivial independent reviews, charted hit[s], etc. I saw that they came high in a search for "El Bistro", but I saw no evidence of notability (I feature pretty heavily in a Google search of my real name, but there's no way I'm notable under WP:BIO). There's a little directory-style page on NME's site, but are they really notable enough to be included in an article about the history, development and culture of a city? The JPStalk to me 00:09, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Population

The top info box has no figure for "Population," but simply says "(2005 estimate)" instead. Can someone update that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Softlavender (talk • contribs) 02:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC).


should be 189,863 according to the list of cities —Preceding unsigned comment added by NobbySolano (talk • contribs) 12:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minor error?

In the section "Recent Developments" John Poulson is listed as a property developer, but his page says he was an architect, which I'm pretty sure is correct. Anyone agree?

Willopad 22:09, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Radio

Does Youth Voice FM still broadcast? I think it was something to do with the parent organisation of NE1 FM.

Also, I think a frequency for Tyne FM would be useful.

Radio Tyneside, the hospital station could also probably do with a mention.

  • -==

[edit] No hyphens?

Why is this one of the only cities I have seen upon or under a river without the hyphens. Others such as Newcastle-under-Lyme, Stoke-upon-Trent, Stratford-upon-Avon, Berwick-upon-Tweed, etc. don't omit it. Reginmund 19:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Well noticed - don't know the actual reason for this, but I make sure that I remove any hyphens found in the name, as you never see the name spelt with hyphens, officially or unofficially BNC85 07:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Post Office omits hyphens from all posttowns - e.g. NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE, HOUGHTON LE SPRING  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 18:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore, my 2007 Collins road atlas of Britain shows "Newcastle upon Tyne" (no hyphens) and "Stoke-on-Trent" (hyphens)  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 01:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

It would be nice to have a section about economy in the city and the surrounding area. When considering a city to move in, knowing what kind of industry is flourishing is important. Doub 23:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arts & Design

Hi, I've added a lot of your recent links for Fairs and Festivals. However, I've noticed that under the Culture heading there should be a sub-section for the Arts! I'm very surprised it's missing. There are a quite a few art galleries or art studios, and design based organisations now based in Newcastle. That's an important growing culture category that Newcastle has developed over the last few years. M. Ho @14/10/2007 19:15. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.92.104.19 (talk) 18:16, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Remove the noise nonsense?

The whole para about the noise measurement should be removed. It adds nothing to the reader's knowledge and may even be confusing.


Bandalore (talk) 07:55, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems perfectly logical within a 'Health' section. It is also fully cited and balanced, with a sourced criticism of the report. The JPStalk to me 09:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Newcastle-on-Tyne

Whence the upon? I have always heard "Newcastle-on-Tyne". --Bejnar (talk) 15:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Eh? Bob talk 20:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 5th most populous conurbation

To anyone considering changing "5th most populous conurbation in England" to "6th most": Please Look at the link first and you'll notice one of the entries above Newcastle is Glasgow. This gets mistakenly "corrected" about once a week!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Lfh (talk • contribs)

Damn yanks!  — MapsMan [ talk | cont ] — 22:17, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Hilarious.--Him and a dog 16:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Listening to the recording in the article's lead, I'm not sure it gives the correct pronunciation. The "upon-tyne" bit is OK but isn't Newcastle correctly pronounced "new-CASS-le" rather than "NEW-caahh-sul"? Certainly that's how people I know who are from there or who have lived there pronounce it. SP-KP (talk) 14:50, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

For some reason, I can't get the sound file to work, but if it's pronounced 'NEW-caar-sul' (with the "bath" vowel of ɑ instead of the trap vowel a) this is the RP pronunciation of Newcastle, but indeed not how people with a regional Geordie (or infact, any 'Northern' UK accent) would pronounce it. Like mentioned above by SP-KP, the primary intonation is placed on the CAS of Newcastle, with the 'new' being an anacrustic syllable (those who aren't familiar with phonetics, anacrustic means an unstressed syllable before the 'head' or main part of an intonation group) Can this voice recording be changed at all, or is it Wiki policy to have an RP version of UK place names? BNC85 (talk) 10:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I provided the RP sound file. I started a sort of mini-project to add sound recordings to UK place name articles — see here and here — and at this stage, as it is only me involved in providing recordings, unfortunately they are all in RP; I would not like to mislead listeners by attempting to pronounce a name in a non-RP local accent! The project page, which is linked from my edit summary for the edit where I added the file, does mention this issue: my comment there is "Issues to consider include regional accents: some place names sound different when spoken by a local resident rather than with Received Pronunciation (Edinburgh is a good example). Ideally, where relevant (including, but not limited to, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish, West Country, West Midlands and Northeast England places), both an RP and a "local" pronunciation would be provided. This is where assistance would be particularly appreciated." Please be assured that there is no WP policy to impose RP pronunciation, or that there is any intention to mislead. Unfortunately, until a user contributes a sound file reflecting the local accent, we're all a bit stuck. As I say, I had misgivings about this aspect of providing sound recordings, but having asked around the general consensus seemed to be that having "a" sound file is better than having none, provided that the accent is clearly labelled. Perhaps it would be helpful if I change the wording in the article to advise that the accent is RP? Hassocks5489 (talk) 13:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I'm sceptical that NEW-caar-sul is RP though, rather than just mispronunciation - one doesn't have to have a geordie accent to pronounce it new-CASS-le - and surely Novocastrians would know how to pronounce the name of their home city? Do we have a source that states that NEW-caar-sul is RP? I agree that the wording of the article should explain things, yes. SP-KP (talk) 17:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

From [3]: "When I was acting for the OUP as adviser to the BBC on the production of the first edition of that dictionary, I found that its editor was proposing to recommend to BBC national newsreaders and announcers the pronunciation of Newcastle-on-Tyne with main stress on its second syllable. I urged that, though the majority educated version in that locality was no doubt so, there was a firmly established national preference throughout the rest of Britain for stressing the first syllable. She accepted my point and the dictionary was published with the local preference in second place." It's not exactly a brilliant source by Wikipedia citation standards, but this chap seems to have been a pronunciation adviser for a BBC dictionary. This Spectator article from Theodore Dalrymple makes a reference in the fourth paragraph, albeit rather crudely. WP:OR section: admittedly I have heard (although only rarely) people with RP or close-to-RP accents using the "new-CASS-le" pronunciation: one who springs to mind is Nick Quraishi, a radio newsreader on the Independent Radio News service. Most people I know (with RP accents) do stress the first syllable and use the long "a", though. Hassocks5489 (talk) 18:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Just going from own experiences, having moved away from Newcastle for University, I found that everyone south of the 'North-South' isogloss (a linguistic isogloss, I hasten to add) pronounced NEW-car-sul. However, people from the 'North' (but outside Tyne & Wear) pronounced it 'NEW-cass-sul'. I however, pronounce it slightly differently with the emphasis being on the 'CASS' and there being a fast, slight nasal sound before the CASS, sounding like 'nja-CASS-ul'.
It does seem that national BBC / ITV news bulletins refer to Newcastle as NEW-car-sul with the 'BATH'* vowel (ɑ) with primary intonation on the first syllable. Local news (for example BBC Look North / Tyne Tees TV) seem to use the 'TRAP' vowel (a) but still with primary intonation with the first syllable. The emphasis on the second syllable (with the 'TRAP' vowel only) seems to be found in basilectal speech and probably wouldn't be deemed appropriate for television broadcast.
  • 'BATH' and 'TRAP' are names given to vowel qualities, in Wells, J (1982) Accents of the British Isles. BNC85 (talk) 11:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:EH icon.png

Image:EH icon.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox??

The infobox used implies that it isnt a borough in itself it needs either the borough one (eg. the one in Hastings or Oxford) or it needs the other one (like Manchester)Blackwave...... (talk) 12:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Vandalism

Someone keeps making damaging alterations to the Health section. According to the Dr Foster ratings Newcastle hospitals have among the lowest mortality rates (and so have North Tyneside's). To alter this to 'highest' is plain wrong - and makes nonsense of the rest of that sentence.

Newcastle isn't fourth among crime cities (supply ref please!) Northumbria Police region has a rate well under half that of London.

Newcastle also has the least background air pollution of any UK city. When I insert that, someone removes it. What's going on?


Bandalore (talk) 01:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Lack of sources, mainly, which makes it difficult to work out which edits are vandalism. Please assist. - Dudesleeper Talk 12:54, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Coat of arms

Could someone upload an image of the coat of arms of this city to Commons? Thanks. --Pabletex (talk) 18:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation file

Following discussion above (see section 41) and at User:SP-KP's talk page, I have uploaded a new pronunciation file for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, to replace the existing RP version with the stress on the first syllable and the long "A". The short "A" and the second-syllable stress don't come naturally to me as a Southerner, so I hope it doesn't sound too bad or unnatural! I'm a bit worried about the "-Tyne"... Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 20:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Northern Sinfonia

Shouldn't there be a mention of this internationally famous orchestra? I know they're based in the Sage now but they were in Jesmond from 1958 until recently. Bandalore (talk) 03:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought that the Northern Sinfonia article would be the best place to add it. It may be relevant to add a short note about the history to the Jesmond article. But I don't think this article is the place to list every organisation that used to be based in the city boundaries. DrFrench (talk) 20:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)