Talk:New York Cosmos

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[edit] "talks to revive the name"?

Other than a couple Cosmos fans on message boards (and Pinton himself, who has a financial interest), have there been any substantive talks to revive the Cosmos name, either for a new MLS team in New York or for the Red Bulls?

I'm not aware of any. It seems to be a classic case of what a little Internet traffic can do to skew a debate. --Chancemichaels 13:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Almost four months later, and nobody's been able to substantiate the claim. I'm deleting the sentence. If anybody can provide a citation, please feel free to revert. --Chancemichaels 16:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Pinton owns the name and he won't let it be used in a situation that will devalue it. That being said, he did offer it to the Empire Soccer Club before they decided on MetroStars, but they couldn't work out a deal. The one fellow that has been pushing for revival of the name is apparently quite enthralled with the idea and has been posting it all over the Internet for years. Pinton is aware of him and does not support his efforts. So the article should not include a reference to 'talks to revive the name'. (BTW, I'd add the above information to the article, but it's completely OR.) --Butseriouslyfolks 16:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - that section had already been removed from the article. --Chancemichaels 16:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Agreed, there shouldn't be any mention of this in the article. However, there is some discussion about the next expansion team (one of the next 2 in MLS has been targetted to Queens/LI) in NY may carry the Cosmos name. There is no official info on this (which is why it is on the discussion page), but the info isn't coming from the same fellow you are speaking of. It may happen, it may not happen. I guess that will be up to Pinton and the new owner (rumoured to be Fred Wilpon) to resolve. Posthocergopropterhoc (talk) 06:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] POV

This statement is very much POV "The New York Cosmos are still the only team to have all the world's best players playing in it in a short period thats why this team will be rememberd as soccers international dreamteam." I think that although this is sort of true there are other teams that have made efforts to do the same - Real Madrid with their Galacticos policy and Chelsea with all of Abrahmovich's cash. I'm going to remove this statement because I think it is too emotive. --Wikipediatastic 13:32, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Respond at POV

The statement is correct, in the 70's the absolute star players of the world were, Pele Beckenbauer Torres Cruyf etc. they all had a chance to wear a Cosmos shirt, in recent days there are more football stars and not all of them have worn a Madrid or Chelsea shirt i am putting back that statement please lets discuss here if you disagree,

I'm 99% sure Johan Cruyff never played for the Cosmos, but only for LA and Washington in the NASL. I didn't delete it because I'm not 100% sure, but no all-time Cosmos roster I've ever seen includes him, and no Cruyff bio I've ever seen mentions the Cosmos as one of his clubs. Can anyone confirm?

April 8, 2007 My apologies if I'm not placing this correctly... -Cruyff was never 'rostered' with the Cosmos other than playing an exhibition game with them in '77. -Also, Clive Toye did not 'coin' the team name. There was a contest in the newspapers and radio in which a youth soccer player's entry was chosen. The description of the name is correct in identifying it as short for 'cosmopolitan' but was also chosen (as suggested by the entry) for its synonymous meaning of 'universe' as well. -Hope this information is helpful. I'm a newbie to the site. (But loving it!).

Toye himself claimed to have coined the team name, in the documentary Once In A Lifetime. If you can provide verifiable evidence to the contrary, then we can change that passage. --Chancemichaels 20:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)Chancemichaels
And while we're at it, please sign your posts. --Chancemichaels 20:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)Chancemichaels

From the New York Times dated February 5, 1971 page 14... "New York Soccer Club Is Nicknamed Cosmos" February 5, 1971, Friday Page 14, 152 words

Displaying First Paragraph -- "Cosmos became the nickname yesterday for New York's entry in the North American Soccer League. The name was chosen from 3,000 entries filed in a contest conducted throughout the metropolitan area."

Apologies for not knowing the protocol...--Crusty 23:54, 14 April 2007.

No worries - everybody's a newbie here at one point. What you're saying is interesting, but it needs to be verified. Does the document exist on a website somewhere? --Chancemichaels 16:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Thanks, would like to be learning faster but only have so much time. My original statement was actually from memory (I used to work in the lockerrooms when I was younger) and when you asked for a verifiable source I thought it would take forever to find one. However, I got lucky! The link to use in order for you to confirm this fact is: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70B1FFD3D5F107B93C7A91789D85F458785F9 This is the direct link I found through the archives of the New York Times. Hope this is the type of thing you need to set the record straight. All the best, --Crusty 16:21, 16 April 2007.

Thanks - that's just what we need. I have ordered Toye's book, we'll see what he has to say in it. If there's no further clarification, then I'll edit the article to list both claims. Just FYI, you should sign your posts with four tildes "~" before your name, which will then generate links and all those fun things. --Chancemichaels 17:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)Chancemichaels

The claim is still in the article - I'll leave it up to the regulars here to decide how to put it accurately. I have set up a page for Clive Toye - not as a hagiography, but just because he comes from my home town. It would be good to nail down exactly what happened with the name, and someone needs to sort it. For now I'm leaving the sentence alone and just putting a link in to my stub. (Pele always used to say 'Cosmos' like the word cosmos, when he talked about the club). Stevebritgimp 14:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I got Toye's book this weekend, and in it he clarified the origin of the name. He admits that he staged a naming contest so he could call the name he coined "the people's choice" (which certainly explains the Times article). I have updated the article and provided a citation. --Chancemichaels 14:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)Chancemichaels

[edit] Soccer or Football or Association Football?

Well, it's soccer in the US (where the team played) and a couple of other countries (Canada, Australia), football (or some literal translation) in most of the world and apparently association football somewhere. The term "association football" may be neutral but means nothing in the US. (It's not even in the name of the relevant WP project.) Can we leave it at soccer for this article as the term for the sport that was actually used by the team, its fans and the league in which it played? -- But|seriously|folks  18:11, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. This article about an American topic is written in American English which uses the word "soccer," not "football" or "association football." "Soccer" is unambiguous and if someone is befuddled by the term, it is linked to Football (soccer) which should fix any confusion. --D. Monack | talk 01:17, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree as well. Soccer is what it's called in the United States, soccer is what it was called by the team, and as such the article should reflect that. --Chancemichaels 17:06, 17 July 2007 (UTC)Chancemichaels