Talk:New Reformed Orthodox Order of the Golden Dawn

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Comments moved from article:

The pronunciation given is new to NROOGD members in general, at least when sober. :-)

Most of the people in the Tradition pronounce it something like Na Roo Gd. Rarely one hears En Roo Gd as the pronunciation. But it is needless to say, a sense of humor is intrinsic in this Tradition. This is not to say the rituals and Iniations are taken lightly.

For the history/herstory/her essay/of the Tradition check out http://www.nroogd.org/

Be warned that, as of this time, the calendar is not maintained as up-to-date. (unsigned comments by 207.200.116.201)

[edit] Aidan Kelly's comments

The following text was added to the article a while ago (this edit) by someone who I presume is indeed Aidan Kelly:

My colleague Isaac's observation that the name did screen out some humorless people is quite true, but it was actually chosen in homage to William Butler Yeats, who headed the HOGD's true successor, the Stella Matutina, from about 1900 to about 1922. It was obvious to me in 1967, when I was preparing for my master's orals on Yeats, Blake, and Joyce, that the magical system used by Gardnerian witches was derived from that of the HOGD. It was much later that I learned that the exact pathway by which that system was transmitted was probably via Dion Fortune via Christine Hartley and Charles Seymour, either directly to Gardner, or to Edith Woodford-Grimes, or to someone in their immediate circle of occult friends. The full NROOGD name was devised in a discussion among the group who were creating the first ritual, and was brilliantly defended by another of the founders, the woman now known most often as e.l.f. Silverlocke. We considered ourselves to be unauthorized volunteers for the Gardnerian movement, but having no access to any secrets and having to devise our own rituals, we never claimed our initiations to be equivalent or even comparable to Gardnerian initiations. For the first two years of the NROOGD's existence, all our rituals were public, held usually in public parks, and attended often by hundreds of participants. Our success in being public Witches, rather than secretive, was one factor in the creation of the Covenant of the Goddess as a public "church" for the Craft movement and in the rise of public festivals during the late 1970s. Submitted by Aidan A. Kelly, July 8, 2006.

While I don't doubt that this does come from Kelly, and correctly represents NROOGD history, it is not cited from any verifiable document, and is not suitable for inclusion in the article. This is a pity, because it's useful information. (Although Kelly's take on Gardnerian history is still controversial and should be attributed as opinion, not fact). According to Wikipedia policy, this is unverified original research and as such I have removed it from the article. The best way to get this kind of information included is to actually publish it somewhere else, so that we can verify who the author truly is. Then you or someone else can quote or summarise from that information in the WP article. Also, if you are aware of existing published documents that contain this information, you can quote from them. The point is, the article needs to make it clear where its info came from, so that even twenty years down the track any interested party can follow up and verify its sources. Cheers, Fuzzypeg☻ 20:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)