Talk:New Mexico Lobos men's basketball

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Contents 1 Legend has it... 2 NPOV 3 Under Construction 4 References 5 Fraschilla

[edit] Legend has it...

I attributed the story about Roy Johnson to legend because I had heard it told by an Albuquerque old-timer -- my father -- but I didn't know the source. I learned recently that Roy Johnson told the story to my father at a BBQ in the 1970s. (It was a coaches BBQ where all the guys stood around gnawing on T-bone steaks they held in one bare hand, and drinking beers held in the other.) The story is apparently true, then, so not exactly a legend. Laszlo Panaflex 19:24, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Most of the article, especially starting from 1980, seems very opinionated and unencyclopedic to me. For example:

• Calling an era "He Who Shall Not Be Named" implies that it was a terrible year. Perhaps, in your opinion, it was, but a history (like that in an encyclopedia) doesn't hold opinion as fact.
• Most of the 1980-now eras have really short, sparse descriptions, most of which seem more like an opinionated newspaper column than an encyclopedia entry. For example:
  • "Return to glory."
  • Patrick Dennehy: "Devastating postscript." (I know about Patrick Dennehy's story, so it makes a little sense to me, but it doesn't make sense to people who don't know this.)
  • "Lobo-Gate" What happened?

I appreciate the effort that has gone into the rest of the article, but please, clean up the history. --Oddtoddnm 18:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Oddtodd. I have been adding research to the page as time has allowed -- and in the last few months, that hasn't been much. A double computer crash made me begin a lot of the research over, and admittedly took some of the wind out of my sails.

The sections that are not filled in act as an outline, and much of what has been started is still in the beginning stages. I realize that the HWSNBN section is non-enclyclopedic, and if someone insists on changing it, so be it. As detail is added, however, the demise of the program during those years will become more founded in fact. The program is still recovering from the scholarships and ticket sales lost during those seasons.

At any rate, there has indeed been a delay in development of the page. Fear not! Basketball season looms only a few weeks away, and that will no doubt prod me into working harder on it. Woof woof woof!, Laszlo Panaflex 20:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

P.S. I notice you created a page for Howard Morgan. Among my research, I had some nice background on Mike Roberts. If I can re-find it perhaps we can develop a page for him, too. I'm also putting together an entry for the Frontier Restaurant, which will include some first-hand accounts of its early years. However, as you will understand, my available time does not match my ambitions for the project. Hurumph. Laszlo Panaflex 21:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I had a feeling, but I guess you're right. I'm kinda crunched for time too, but I'll see what I can do. I'll be happy to help with a Mike Roberts page - he's been just as important locally. (I didn't know he worked at KOB-TV.) I'll try to edit what I can, and I think I'll remove the NPOV template in favor of some sort of "work in progress" template. Hopefully the Lobos will do a bit better this year. --Oddtoddnm 23:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Under Construction

Please note that this page is under construction. Many sections need to be expanded, which is being worked on as schedules allow. --Oddtoddnm 23:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I tried thumb-nailing the first picture of The Pit before, but I thought it looked a lot better large. The full pic gives it an imposing look, as though one is looking down into The Pit, while as a thumb it looks like just another basketball court. The logo is nice, but I tinkered with the old look quite a bit. If it were up to me, I'd move the logo further down the page and keep the pic of The Pit large. Laszlo Panaflex 06:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

My thought was just that the logo represents the team, while The Pit represents the arena. There is an article about University Arena, too, so keep that in mind. If you want to change it back, I'll take no offense. -Oddtoddnm 07:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

You know what, I thought about it a moment, and I agree. So, I made that change myself, and added captions to the pictures. Here's how I did it, if you're curious: [[Image:imagename.ext|thumb|400px|Caption]] "400px" is the eventual width (400 pixels). --Oddtoddnm 08:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

As I said, I tinkered with the look a great deal. The pics are too small as it is, and thumbing them just makes it worse. All the pics are of the Pit, so they really don't need separate captions, which just make the page look busy, especially at the top. The picture of the outside of the arena is particularly self-explanatory, the caption merely repeating what it says on the building. And to say that the building "often fills nearly to sellout" is actually a back-handed slap when sellouts used to be the norm. There is already a discussion of capacity and attendance in the text, as well as a link to the University Arena page, some of which I built, btw. Laszlo Panaflex 18:54, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to criticize your work. I was just stating that this is about the team and program in general and there's a separate article about the arena. And, Wikipedia style says that nearly every picture should be captioned. Besides, I didn't shrink the pictures too much; most of them are just a few pixels. I'm also saying, with the near-sellout caption, that UNM basketball is pretty darn popular in Albuquerque - many arenas get nowhere near selling out except on rare occasions. Assume good faith. --Oddtoddnm 00:26, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Captioning and thumbing the pics simply for the sake of it is form over substance. A caption that says the same thing as the text in the pic detracts from the page just for the sake of having a caption. "Photos and other graphics should have captions unless they are 'self-captioning,'" or when they are "unambiguous." (Wikipedia style). There is already a discussion in the text about capacity and attendance that emphasizes the positive (Top 10 attendance) rather than a negative (not even selling out any more). Whatever. Change the look as you wish. I never suggested you weren't acting in good faith. You started with some specific complaints about the page, but you've done nothing to address those areas and merely changed the formatting. Laszlo Panaflex 01:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Ovbiously, you don't want my help. The reason I haven't adjusted those complaints of mine is because you said you had an outline and a plan to do that stuff. I'm sorry I brought anything up. -Oddtoddnm 04:19, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Sigh. I never said it was "My Page" or that I didn't want your help. Sheesh, talk about good faith issues. You thanked me for being patient with you at one point, yet now you are throwing out accusations left and right. "Fine, your page," is not terribly constructive.

Note that I merely offered critique of how the page looks, quoting from wiki- style guidelines, and I haven't changed anything you did. As I said, if you want to re-format the page, go ahead. The substance is more important to me anyway. Laszlo Panaflex 05:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] References

I realise this page is under construction, but I was passing through and happened to notice that the referencing/footnote system is manual. So you have one labelled "2", but the one labelled "1" seems to have disapeared. I believe there is a proper way to do this, but I don't actually know enough about it. Maybe others do. Hope this helps. Carcharoth 11:29, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fraschilla

I know it's painful, but you can't pretend it didn't happen. There are things I don't like to remember, but I'm learning to live with it. Zoicon5 16:14, 21 March 2006 (UTC)