Talk:NetZero

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Every time I try to download the software, I get a warning that states, "This product is not available to you." I spoke to a phone representative, and she confirmed that the free service is no longer available unless I first sign for the $9.95 service, after which time I can cancel and keep the dialing software. Bit of a ripoff. (Note that Netzero's Juno service still has a freebie account available for download... Juno is still truly free; Netzero is not.) - Theaveng (talk) 15:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE: NetZero now allows users to download their software for free (i.e. without first paying $9.95 upfront). I'm glad they made that change. - Theaveng (talk) 17:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

UPDATE #2: And now the free download has been removed from their site. Once again, there's no way to get the software unless you first PAY for it. ---- Theaveng (talk) 20:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I found it still on their site, although not prominently listed. Click "services", and at the bottom of the page is the link labelled "free". --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Provide a DOWNLOADABLE LINK to said software. If you're going to sit here and say that a service is "free", then you need to PROVE it. Provide a citation per wikipedia rules. Else you can not make the claim. (And please don't call me a "vandal".) (That's just plain rude.) ---- Theaveng (talk) 20:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Their website clearly provides a link to add the free software to your cart. Claiming that it is not trully free despite that is WP:OR, and making that claim without a WP:RS is a violation of WP policies. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Provide a link where a NEW CUSTOMER can download the free software (without paying). C'mon. Let's see a citation. ---- Theaveng (talk) 20:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Please stop multi-posting, it causes unneeded edit conflicts and delays. If you would follow the instructions I already listed above, you would have reached this link. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Well. THAT link says I have to hand-over my credit card number and pay $9.95. Please try again. ---- Theaveng (talk) 21:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

At what stage? I just downloaded it with no problem, no credit card ever requested. Regardless, claiming that their free software is not trully free would be WP:OR (please look at that policy), and that claim requires a WP:RS, not personal claims, especially disputed personal claims. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:15, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

And how did you get to that link? I don't see any "services" at the top of the screen. ---- 192.136.15.133 (talk) 21:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

As I already stated ... on their main page I clicked on "Our Services" (okay, typo on my part ealier, I said "services" and it's under "our services"), then the link was at the bottom of the page. It didn't take long to find, I think I only searched one or two other pages from their main page before finding it there. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

hmmm, let me search again ... I may have listed the link wrong, not seeing it. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

This is what I am seeing. Note that the address SAYS "productID=free" but that's not what I am being shown. Netzero is trying to charge me $9.95, and I can NOT download the free software. It's basically bait-and-switch. You can't get the service for "free" is they force you to pay for it upfront.

http://www.geocities.com/videonovels/netzero_notfree.JPG ---- Theaveng (talk) 21:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I found the link again ... once you register on their site, the site layout changes - very annoying. I had to delete all cookies on my PC to reset it. Once I did, then the main page I reach has a link to "Our Services", at the bottom of which is a link labelled "free", which let me download the software at the link I provided to you without the need for a credit card. Once you register and have their cookies on your machine, I have no idea how to find the link again at that point, unless you go and delete the cookies like I did to get there. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that's deceptive. I still only see this: http://www.geocities.com/videonovels/netzero_notfree.JPG ----- The web address say "free" but all I see is a $9.95 plan. ---- 192.136.15.133 (talk) 21:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I can't upload screen-shots of what I'm seeing from this PC (firewall here prevents it), but I can once I get home tonight. Very strange that we would be seeing different things from the same link, I'm guessing it's also a cookie-related issue. I agree now that there is some slight-of-hand going on, as the links should work the same, cookies or not - and many home users may not even know about cookies, and those who do may never consider clearing them to reset the view - so I agree that it's shady behavior. But, I can verify that the free version is still downloadable. I'll post my screen shots somewhere online tonight, then post a link on this talk page. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 21:44, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

If you would like to include that information, and it is in fact true, I suggest seeing Wikipedia:Citing sources so it is not reverted in the future. 4.247.176.16 (talk) 21:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, if you read the above posts, you would know that I've already mentioned this. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

As an FYI, here's what I'm seeing: Main screen (click "our services at the bottom), Our Services screen (click "free" at the bottom), Free Access screen (URL from link earlier) (click to add the item to the cart), First Shopping cart screen (click proceed), second shopping cart screen. From there, the next screen asks you to register username, contact information, and password. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 01:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes. I cleared my cookies yesterday, and there was Freebie service. That's a pretty dumb web design, that you can't see the free service until you clear the cookies. ----- In fact I just went back there again (today), and again it says, "This free service is not available to you." Weird. ---- Theaveng (talk) 19:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Please note that this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the NetZero article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. --Cheeser1 (talk) 19:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

We ARE discussing improving the article (whether or not Netzero is truly free). ---- Theaveng (talk) 11:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

No, you're not. This talk page is not a tech-support forum to help you access free internet. --Cheeser1 (talk) 14:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Technically, this thread did begin as a dispute over content within the article (view the articles history and change comments for clarification - as well as the initial posts on this thread). I should have left it with my comments of no WP:OR and asked for admin support when it escalated, but I allowed myself to get pulled into a debate over the company itself. I am backing away from this article at this point and will remain away for some time, so that others can resolve any remaining content disputes that come up in this specific issue. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 16:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but the point is that none of this is really relevant - the section title makes that pretty clear. It doesn't matter who can or cannot operate their site correctly, it is verifiable as I see it that they have a free service. We are not charged with the task of making sure we can all navigate the web well enough to sign up for it. --Cheeser1 (talk) 18:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I know that I said I would stay away, but I can't leave it at that ... I was not debating you, and fail to see why you chose to use an argumentative tone with a post that essentially agreed with you. Please read my post (not just the first sentense). Please read my earlier posts on this thread (obviously, not the last few from the initial discussion). Please read my comments in the article edit history.

If you wish to discuss further, please contact me on my talk page. I will monitor this thread briefly further, but will be removing the article from my watch list no later than Thursday of this week. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I know. I was agreeing with you, just as you were agreeing with me. I was making clear the relevant policy and why it makes this discussion irrelevant to building the encyclopedia. --Cheeser1 (talk) 21:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

"Yes, but the point is that none of this is really relevant - the section title makes that pretty clear." You can't ASSUME that the name of a corporation matches its policy. Netzero can discontinue its free service at any time, and yet still use the same name. ---- Theaveng (talk) 19:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

"No you're not." So now you're implying I am lying. Well I not lying & I will repeat: This discussion was started becaused I added the following phrase to the article on November 16 (and again January 28): "Any new customer who tries to sign-up for the free service receives a "This product is not available to you" warning, so the free service is no longer available unless the customer signs for the $9.95 plan (thus not truly being free)."

The discussion was not about me. The discussion was about the ARTICLE. I know you hate me and think I am lying to you, but I assure that I am not. ---- Theaveng (talk) 19:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Please refer to WP:TALK, WP:AGF, and WP:NPA. This discussion has absolutely no place on Wikipedia. Having said that, I expected no response, but I will now no longer continue to contribute to this off-topic and inappropriate discussion. I suggest you do the same, and that you otherwise abide by WP:TALK and the other policies I've pointed you to. --Cheeser1 (talk) 07:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:TALK states, "The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page."

That's exactly what I was doing. Furthermore you might want to re-read WP:AGF (assume good faith) instead of jumping to the conclusion that I was trying to disrupt anything. I said it before, and I'll said it again: The discussion was not about me. The discussion was about IMPROVING the article. ---- Theaveng (talk) 14:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

No, and changing the title of the section after the fact isn't going to make that any different. It was explained to you several times that your inability to access a free service that we know they have is irrelevant, and amounts to a discussion of something unrelated to the article. You continued to demand that people "prove" that they could access it, providing screenshots and turning this page away from what it's supposed to be for. You continue to post to this discussion over and over now to insist that you did nothing wrong, when all that is expect is that you let the discussion go since it's not on topic - instead of dragging it out even more. I'm boilerplating this. I don't expect the discussion to continue, because it is not constructive, and never was, and whatever you might think, everyone else seems to be of the opinion that nowhere along the way was this working to improve the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheeser1 (talk • contribs) 11:07, February 8, 2008

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.