Talk:Nery Castillo

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 Nery Castillo was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: February 5, 2008

cuales partidos ha jugado Nery con la seleccion?

Nery is not 1.80m height.

Contents

[edit] Superlatives

Judassab has restored the words "sensational goal" on July 4, 2007 09:05 stating: It was regarded as "sensational" by the totality of the press and fans and this is a fact worthy of noting. Besides, this bio is full of superlatives and the spanish version is full of non-facts.

Should WP become a sports commentary site? Isn't mentioning a goal enough? Why does it have to contain superlatives? Doesn't Wikipedia:Avoid_peacock_terms apply? The poster's second comment about non-facts in the Spanish version is irrelevant to the English WP. He should edit the Spanish version or alert their editors to the fact. Alexf(t/c) 13:48, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a goal and there is a sensational goal. It is not the same thing. And it WAS a sensational goal, by any measure. Extra info always helps, but seeing how you removed the whole description of the goal, I'm not really sure what you are after here. Maybe a telegram Judassab

I'm against the use of the word "sensational", since it doesn't contribute much to describe the goal. Yes, many fans agree that it was sensational, but we should limit to use the word until a valid pole determines it was the most spectacular goal of the tournament. A simple link to a video on youtube would be more useful, and the viewer can set his own description for the goal.--Lui1014 08:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed Judassab

[edit] Clean up

Anyone with the time, inclination, and knowledge of the player should really go through and totally over-haul this article. Nothing is cited and the tone is un-encyclopedic and loaded with unnecessary praise and superlatives. Mingusfingers 19:59, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Have started this process, I have edited everything from Shakhtar Donetsk onwards, still working my way up. I have restructured the article and added references. I am also removing superlatives and trying to write from a NPOV. My aim would be to get this article to good article status. Pbradbury (talk) 21:50, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

OK thats my first attempt at cleaning this up, I will take a look with fresh eyes tommorrow. Pbradbury (talk) 22:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Neryrr.jpg

Image:Neryrr.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 14:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move to Manchester City

It was already confirmed that Castillo has been loaned to Manchester City http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/news/story?id=629058&s=eng&type=story 189.153.233.83 (talk) 21:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

It is not confirmed, his agent has said he will move, there has been no statement from manchester city or shakhtar and most reports state that negotiations are in the final stages, which means they are not complete. Pbradbury (talk) 22:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I concur, this move is not official yet... --Palffy 22:55, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
It seems this is official now -source-, it says the player has already signed and that he will start training there this same Saturday and will be presented on Monday. Mediotiempo.com has been used as a good source for other articles. 189.153.233.83 (talk) 01:28, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
reports by third parties are exactly that, reports, confirmation is needed and as neither man city or shakhtar have confirmed it then it hasn't happened as far as an encyclopedia is concerned, if he is presented on monday then it will be confirmed and should be recorded Pbradbury (talk) 10:38, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Pbradbury is correct, either Shakhtar, Man City or AP/Reuters are all good sources..3rd party sources are usually not.. --Palffy 11:00, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Well Reuters confirmed the news yesterday, source 20:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nesgod (talk • contribs)
Read the article carefully, 'Nery Castillo is to go on loan to English Premier League side Manchester City after a failed attempt to adapt at Ukraine's Shakhtar Donetsk, his agent said.' (here's an alternate version of the article, [1]). Neither of the clubs have officially confirmed the loan.. --Palffy 05:40, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Exactly, his agent is not a reliable source, read what Sven said. After the game Eriksson was also asked about the rumours surrounding the loan arrival of Mexican flyer Nery Castillo. He replied in typical fashion saying: “As soon as it’s no longer rumour I’ll make a comment.” ([2]) Pbradbury (talk) 09:52, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

It now appears that he is unlikely to make the move (report here) Pbradbury (talk) 13:40, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review style comments

Some comments on the article, following a discussion with User:Pbradbury, though I shall most probably act upon some of them myself.

  • The lead section is too short, it should be a summary of the article in a couple of paragraphs. See WP:LEAD.
  • The article says Castillo made his professional debut with Danubio in the Uruguayan first division, but no appearances for Danubio are included in the infobox or appearance table.
  • His father and agent decided that the best opportunity for his son was with Manchester United - needs a citation. "Father and agent" is ambiguous as to whether his father was his agent, or if they were two different people. The citation for the work permit issues could do with being from something more reputable than a red-top.
  • A sentence to explain the three year gap to his Olympiacos debut would be useful.
  • I take it Gate 7 is the name of a ultras group, this ought to be clarified.
  • Manchester City, not Man City.
  • rumored transaction - given that the article uses football and not soccer throughout, it should not use American English. This proposed transfer needs a reference, as with anything else contentious (negotiations with the Mexican club Chivas de Guadalajara, perception that Castillo is a problematic player etc.)
  • famous Brazilian player Rivaldo an example of a peacock term. "Famous" is subjective, but can easily be replaced by wording which actively demonstrates renown: "former World Player of the Year Rivaldo".
  • The section about his time at Olympiacos focuses on specific incidents, but does not mention the honours he won there.
  • IIRC Shakhtar signed Castillo as a replacement for Elano, I'll have to try to confirm that.
  • I'd be wary of using quotes from agents, who have vested interests.
  • Castillo's reputation increased significantly during last year's Copa America, there must be more to write about his performances in the tournament.
  • in an unprecedented move paid half of the loan fee himself Can we be sure no other player has done the same?

Oldelpaso (talk) 20:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Questions/Comments regarding Peer review style comments

  • I am finding it hard to find any references for his time at Olympiacos in english, there seem to be several in spanish but my spanish is not up to reliably verifying they are indeed talking about what I am trying to reference. If I tag list the articles here are there any spanish speakers (User:Alexf?) that could verify the references so they can be added?
    • Please go ahead and indicate them here (links). I'll be watching the page and try to help with Spanish lang issues -- Alexf(Talk/Contribs) 17:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Start at Danubio, I can't find any refernce that he actually played a senior game for them, all articles (in English) that I can find seem to use the original Wikipedia article as reference. Shakhtar's site says he played no league games. So I am considering removing this and/or changing it to 'Castillo started his career at...', thoughts?
  • Regarding agent quotes I agree, however in this instance, I thought that it helped to illustrate the issues around his relationship with Shakhtar and context for why he would pay half his loan fee. It is clearly referenced as being what he said and not just written as fact. Then included is the Shakthar responce (also vested interest) to balance the article. That was my reasoning anyway. Is that rational or do you still think it should not be included. If removed I would suggest striking the entire paragraph.

Pbradbury (talk) 20:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

    • Spanish-speaking editors of football articles are one thing we are chronically short of. You could try asking around at relevant wikiprojects.
    • If we can't verify first team appearances at Danubio, then we can't imply it. "started his career" would be better in this respect.
    • Its a case of deciding how much is reasonable and how much would be undue weight. I'd perhaps drop the second agent quote. His exclusion from the Shakhtar team is better placed further up, and the fact he signed a contract three days later makes it obvious he had travelled to England. Oldelpaso (talk) 19:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
OK I have covered off the last two points, which only really leaves re-structuring and writing the olimpiacos section, including adding references, so I will try and get a willing spanish speaking editor to help with some of that. Pbradbury (talk) 23:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA failed

This articles lacks quite a few things that are needed for GA

  • There is no information about the playing style or the strengths and weaknesses of Castillo. Also, the fact that he is an attacking midfielder/striker is only mentioned in the infobox which is very sparse in that his playing position and position in the team formation is not spoken of much.
  • The Olympiakos section is not referenced and is a BLP violation in some parts because it talks of dubious behaviour by Castillo such as robbing his teammate of a free kick and "looking sheepish"
  • You Tube is not a reliable source
  • Lack of weight on Olympiakos. Compared to the number of games for Shakhtar and MC, even taking into account that there were more controversiees for the latter two, the Olympiakos performances, should probably have to be expanded somewhat
  • ?? in the stats table needs to be addressed.
  • One line paras need to be merged and integrated
  • Also, the prose of the article is a bit too casual in some places and needs a copyedit.

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:30, 5 February 2008 (UTC)