Talk:Nehalennia

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The book Symbol and Image in Celtic Religious Art by Miranda Green (published 1992) states that "Nehalennia is nearly always portrayed with a dog"(p. 5).

Additionally, also by M. Green Animals in Celtic Life and Myth. London, UK: Routledge, 1998. p 200-201:

The tribe of the Morini lived in what is now the Netherlands, bordering the North Sea coast. They venerated a local Celtic goddess, Nehalennia, and set up two temples in her honour. She was a divinity of seafarers, and protected merchants and other travellers who regularly risked their lives and their merchandise in the perilous journey across the sea. Nehalennia’s cult was a successful one: visitors came to worship from as far away as Besançon and Trier. And it was a wealthy cult: the two shrines to the goddess were embellished with numerous altars . . . Nehalennia’s two sanctuaries, at Domburg on the island of Walcheren and at Colijnsplaat on the East Scheldte estuary, are both now submerged beneath the North Sea. However, many of her altars have been recovered, and these display a rich and complex iconography which throws some light on the nature and functions of the goddess. Nehalennia is generally depicted seated, with baskets of fruit as emblems of prosperity and often with marine symbols to signify her presidency over the sea. But most distinctive of all the motifs associated with this North Sea deity is the dog. On nearly every surviving stone — and there are more than a hundred — a large, benign, hound-like animal sits patiently by the goddess’s feet, facing his mistress.

This is from Hilda Roderick Ellis Davidson's Roles of the Northern Goddesses, (pub. 1998): Nehalennia, a Germanic goddess worshipped at the point where travellers crossed the North Sea from the Netherlands, is shown on many carved stones holding loaves and apples like a Mother Goddess, sometimes with a prow of a ship beside her (see p. 112), but also frequently with an attendant dog which sits looking up at her (Plate 5). He was on thirteen of the twenty-one altars recorded by Ada Hondius-Crone (1955: 103), who describes him as a kind of greyhound. . .

L Hamm 02:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

If you read OERA LINDA BOOK there should be no problem to identify the origin of Nehalennia. Her original name was Minerva, and she was one of "Fryas children". She was taken to Crete and Athens, where cults to her arose. The sailors called her Nyhellenia. Oera Linda Book: [1] See also web-book by Radford: [2]

Rolf Kenneth 80.212.248.109 12:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The Oera Linda book is a fake, thought up by a Frisian minister with too much time on his hands. Read the wiki on it :D
Besides, how can the daughter of a Germanic Goddes have a Greek name as her original name?

Krastain 21:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents

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[edit] deity

What date were the earliest coins that depicted her? I added this source today that mentions several interesting points:

Note I answered my own question on dates so don't botther to go look it up (not I sheepishly got coins and stone votives mixed up). NOW I am wondering if a lot of the "etymology" section, except for what I answered is composed of "original research" and should be reduced to published speculation. Goldenrowley 22:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

All of the Etymology section was added by User:Rokus01 in one edit. He edits a lot of archaeology articles. Perhaps you could ask for his sources on his talk page? Alohasoy 23:54, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Good idea I've invited him or her to come discuss here. I'd look forward to knowing of the best sources.Goldenrowley 03:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for inviting me. This has really been some time ago. I remember there has been a lot of speculation on the subject, nothing ever being completely satisfactory. Nobody has ever been as bold as to dedicate something like a comprehensive scientific article to the issue. A pity, for now all references are fragmented and published only to express opposition to other views. Thus, restricting yourself to publications you know of would necessarily convey the risk of distortion. Maybe we can expect something from Peter Schrijver in the near future, especally concerning -ennia, since he assumes reminiscent influences from Linear Pottery people, and godesses with -na are almost pan-european (although I wonder if he takes local and slightly less ancient maritime Beaker traditions original enough). The ultimate source to all those speculations is te be found in what is published on proto languages. A lot of symbolism is involved, pointing to a cultural heritage that is largely lost. All of this makes it extremely difficult to grasp any meaning to any speculation at all, if presented without any contextual information. By the way, this compilation is what it is: a compilation, well to be distinguished from original research. No new facts are revealed nor concocted, for this would never be my purpose. Rokus01 19:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

OKay! Well I am really "into her" right now as I was just there in Zeeland. If you don't mind I may just copyedit it a bit, but not take anything away. I'll say its a compiliation or something. Goldenrowley 21:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hmmm

Hmm someone has put her in the Celtic menu. Goldenrowley 22:43, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sentence of interest

I would like to get several references and suggested page links for the following sentence, which is in the article. Specifically, what sources and pages would best validate and explain this claim? " Today it's understood that Celtic and Germanic tribes shared a common heritage in language as well as ancient religion and were culturally intertwined to a degree." (?) Goldenrowley (talk) 05:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The common heritage in language and ancient religion should be sought in assessments that study the common Indo European origin of language and myth. Of this there are many. Especially the work of Georges Dumézil is interesting, concerning the tripartite-dualistic nature of Indo European myths in general. The tripartite and dualistic nature of Nehalennia has been cited in several assessments.
The cultural intertwining of Celtic and Germanic, at least on a local level, has been thouroughly studied. Archeological studies revealed it is virtually impossible to distinguish one from the other. Linguistic studies have been performed by Peter Schrijver and others, I'ld have to search for it but I guess most I'll find would be in the Dutch language. Intertwining on other levels: e.g. myths, even though it is often hard to distinguish between contact and common heritage. Especially assessments to the Völund saga and the connections between Siegfried and the Celtic Salmon of Knowledge are interesting. I would have to dive into it again.
I am not very much into it now, though maybe this quote (The Prehistory of Germanic Europe by Herbert Schutz, ISBN 0300028636, Ch 6 The Northern Genesis, 1983) will help:"the question concerning the process of differentiation which separated proto-Germanic from the other Indo-European languages is still burdened with nineteenth-century theories of biological naturalism which see the evolution of languages along family-tree lines, thereby presupposing an Indo-European proto- or root language from which others branch out according to organic laws of development. This view would also postulate the emergence of a uniform proto-Germanic language, from which the Germanic languages would evolve. In view of the significant links between Germanic, Celtic and Italic languages on the one hand and Baltic and Slavic languages on the other, the question arises whether Germanic branched out from the Indo-European stem in conjunction with these other languages or whether Germanic branches came in contact with branches of those other languages, or if perhaps the agreement among Germanic, Italic and Celtic languages, as reflected in the names given to lakes and rivers, does not suggest a common proto-European language as a transitional stage between proto Indo-European and the individual European languages. Specialists have yet to formulate an acceptable answer." (as you might know, Schultz was only an influential pioneer) Cheers! Rokus01 (talk) 08:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
How nice to hear from you Rokus, this info may help not just this article but others in Europe. As usual I might think about it a while, then incorporate pieces (in this case, the cited source and links i.e. to Peter Schrijver (linguist))... if you don't jump to it first. Thank you! Goldenrowley (talk) 02:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How does one pronounce ...

Nehalennia? --Illustrious One (talk) 18:24, 23 February 2008 (UTC)