User talk:Necronudist

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Welcome!

Hello Necronudist, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Shanel 22:17, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] AS Roma

I reverted your edits because the away jersey is white with a red decoration on the right shoulder [1], while the cup jersey is white with one sleeve red and the other yellow. The orange/black shirt is the third jersey, but it is quite different[2]. --Panairjdde 10:16, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "...and will block for it"

This user reverts vandalism on sight, and will block for it.

You might wish to remove this from your user page as it may give users the false impression that you are an administrator. — FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 18:01, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

mmmkay, you're right --necronudist 19:17, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Redirects for deletion

Necro, I see that you listed some NBA player redirects for deletion. I agree on deleting Gary Payton → Gary Payton (basketball) and Randy Smith (basketball) → Randy Smith (basketballer) as these two are currently blocking me from moving the pages. The other two, Jason Chandler Williams and John "Hot Rod" Williams are valid redirects and will be helpful for somebody searching for players by those names. I have already requested for Gary Payton (basketball) to be moved to Gary Payton by an administrator, but it has not been done yet. — FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 13:57, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I think nobody will ever search for "Jason Chandler Williams" or "John "Hot Rod" Williams" (maybe "Hot Rod Williams")... what d'you think? --necronudist 14:44, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] John Williams updates

There are now separate articles for John "Hot Rod" Williams and John Sam Williams. John Williams (basketball) is a disambiguation page. — FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 21:15, Dec. 24, 2005

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Article improvement drive

Hi Necronudist,

The Football AID is restarting. The next project article is to be selected on January 1, 2006. Please look at the nominations and take part actively. Thanks. -Aabha (talk) 10:44, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Regional flags of soccer players

I've noticed that you've been adding regional flags for soccer players at various national team pages. I suppose they correspond to where they are born. But how do you determine the regional flags of foreign born players? Chanheigeorge 02:09, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I search where his father was born (or his parent with that nationality, eg.: Camoranesi is Italian because of his grandfather coming from Marches...so he has the Marches flag; another case is Kuranyi) or where he estabilishes with his family (eg: most of all of the French players came to France estabilishing in Paris suburbs). D'you think it's a bad idea?

sorry for my english... --necronudist 13:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I see. Thanks for your research. I'm not sure if that's the best choice for foreign born players, unless we have a very clear definition of what region they belong to. Perhaps we can consult other people about that. Chanheigeorge 06:34, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I think it would be better. I'm going to post something on the discussion page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/National teams. --necronudist 13:16, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Football team logos

Do not add team icons to players names, as fair use images need a rationale for each implementation. WP:FUC states that fair use images should be kept to a minimum, and they are not essential in this case. ed g2s • talk

Ok...sorry then. Please alert also the user who first added it on the Argentina national football team page. However I think that I will use logos for the 2006 FIFA World Cup squads page, it would be more stylish and good-looking, obviously I'll first post on the discussion page. --necronudist 01:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italian Derby

Hi there, could you help us on this matter? —Lesfer (talk/@) 22:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Done! :-) --necronudist 23:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] lista giocatori stranieri

ciao, guarda mi dispiace del blocco e della situazione, capisco benissimo il tuo sconforto... però effettivamente non è che si possa fare molto.. la "vendetta" del vandalismo che hai fatto magari ti ha messo a posto la coscienza ma non serve a niente (se non a bannarti e a farti risultare per come non sei, vedi il commento che ti hanno fatto quando ti hanno bloccato e che ti ha giustamente fatto dispiacere).. ho postato il tuo messaggio al progetto calcio, vediamo se qualcuno dice qualcosa... in ogni caso fatti coraggio, dai :-) --Superchilum(talk to me!!) 15:57, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject:Italian Football

Hi ya. I see you add to Italian Football articles from time to time. Just wondering if you want to check out Wikipedia:Italian Football. We are just hoping to organise our efforts towards improving articles better. If you want to sign up just put your name down under participants on the project. You can do as much or as little work as you like and any ideas on improving pages would be great. Niall123 19:24, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Are you back?

I've just seen some of your edits on FA premier league, and just wondered if your returning to the good side?

I've never been in the evil side. However, I'm just editing/reverting pages I read often. I'm not collaborating with new stuff (except for the List of foreign Serie A players, because I did it for my personal use first) or minor corrections, but I keep reading this encyclopedia so I need it to be clean. --necronudist 12:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AC Milan

I see that AC Milan didn't get listed as a Featured Article. How about using the following template I drew up Template:A.C. Milan as in the arsenal article. Will try to do a bit of a clean up on the Milan article. Will try to get it to featured article status. Niall123 18:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for rugby super league

Leave your opinion on this[3] matter if you are interested. It is basically about the term rugby super league being used as a disambiguation for all rugby competitions by that or a similar name. --Ehinger222 12:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DIctators

the list says list of Dictatores impling all dictatores not list of Dictaotores after 1789, inpliying only modern dictaotors --J intela 03:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yuri Nikiforov

Hi! I've found another Russian-Ukrainian player, this time in the Primera División list. Yuri Nikiforov was born in Ukraine, after the break-up of the USSR he played 3 games for Ukrainian nft and then he decided to play for Russia and got 55 caps. How do you treat similar cases (if you've encountered them)? Alaexis 21:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a definite opinion about this issue. If I had I'd change it right away :). What do you think about putting him in both Russian and Ukrainian sub-lists with the notes attached that would explain the matter. Something like this: (was born in Ukraine, played 3 games for Ukrainian national team, then played for Russia) in the Russian footballers section and (played mostly for Russian national football team) in the Ukrainian one. Alaexis 13:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
What are your objections to putting him in both lists? I still think it's the best solution. Alaexis 20:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
It's not an argument that you just don't want something. I could say I want it, then it would be just your opinion vs. mine. Please give some arguments. Alaexis 04:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
In this cases I just do what the creator of the article want
Do you mean everyone should do in every article only the stuff the article creator approves? If so it's in clear contradiction with wikipedia policy. I hope I understood you wrong and you didn't mean it.
Well, there are no arguments, like for listing twice.
There is an obvious argument that this guy played for two nfts. Alaexis 09:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Why can't the player be included in two lists if he played for 2 nfts? You don't own this article and you haven't given any arguments other than you just don't like it.
ps. You offered me to do 'what I like' in your last message. Quite strange that then you reverted what I'd done. Alaexis 15:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't think my edits are redundant. Unless you give a link to some wikipolicy that applies here (to some extent) it's just your opinion vs. mine... again. Adiós. Alaexis 11:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paolo Maldini

Ciao, Necroman. About Maldini, he made 600 Serie A appearances if you include the 1986-87 UEFA Cup spareggio (playoff) [4]. But usually relegation and European Cup playoffs are not considered for these records; in fact Gazzetta dello Sport assign 29 presences to him in 86-87 [5], rather than 30 as ACMilan did. As playoff matches are not "regular" league matches, in my opinion Maldini is yet to reach 600. --Angelo 15:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Indubbio. Anche perché gli stessi media sportivi italiani non ne hanno parlato tanto, probabilmente anche loro stessi considerano gli spareggi UEFA non alla stregua dei match di campionato. Anche RSSSF.com [6], bellissimo database mondiale di statistiche calcistiche, non considera lo spareggio UEFA nelle presenze, tra l'altro. --Angelo 16:25, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Beh, a questo punto proporrei la "soluzione nel mezzo": 599 presenze con una footnote dove si precisa che Maldini ha giocato anche uno spareggio UEFA che però non entra nel conto delle partite giocate in Serie A; stiamo pur sempre parlando di un paragrafo dal titolo "Record di presenze in Serie A" del resto. --Angelo 16:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sere A

As far as I know, the Image:SerieATrophy.jpg is going to be deleted. If you want, add back the warning to the page, I won't.--GrayToday 12:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bíró Dani

Hi! The source for this statement is the following book, published in Hungary: [7]

"Egy politika törölte osztrák-magyar 1938.április 24. Bécs:Bécs-Budapest 3-5 G: Sárosi 5 A mérkőzést még mint Ausztria-Magyarország találkozót kötötték le. A politikai helyzet azonban úgy alakult, hogy Ausztria, mint önálló állam megszünt, a hitleri Németország bekebelezte... Bíró Mihály (becenevén Dani) a Práter poklában kapott először játéklehetőséget.Nagyszerűen helytállt, könnyed cselekkel játszotta át a híres Sestát. A válogatottak között mégis hiába keressük a nevét. Csak ekkor került be a legjobb tizenegybe - és ugye ez nem volt hivatalos válogatott mérkőzés... Sárosi is szerencsétlennek mondható,hiszen 5 gólján kívül még kapufákat is lőtt.

Szabó (Hungária)-Miklósi (Szürketaxi), Bíró (Hungária) - Szalay (Újpest), Szücs (Újpest), Dudás (Hungária) -Bíró Mihály (Ferencváros), Zsengellér (Újpest), Sárosi (Ferencváros), Toldi (Ferencváros), Titkos (Hungária)"

The bold part means "Mihály Bíró (nicknamed Dani)" in Hungarian.

Also there are some other books with the same information available in Hungarian.

There are no online sources yet (or at least I couldn't find any) --gabute 07:58, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Shammond Williams

I'm so sorry to do this, but I dunno another way to contact you. Sh. Williams has played for national team of Georgia (http://www.davesez.com/archives/000345.php) if you search in google you'll easily see it. Please don't erase my contributions any more. They are totally true that I'm using basketball-reference.com. You can check them at that site. After reading this, you can remove this part. I'm sorry again.

No, it doesn't prove that he's of that nationality. I'm checking all players that I've put, I'm not putting all the players that I've seen. But please search in google in "shammond williams georgia" form. I've seen something about his matches with Georgia, but the page wasn't reachable.

By the way, why is Carlos Boozer is shown on Germany part as well as Dominique Wilkins on France? They havew no organic relation with those countries.

Didn't you visit the webpage I've given above? That's what it says: "Did you know that Shammond Williams was a Georgian? Not the state, The Republic of Georgia. Believe it or not, the (formerly) aftroed one is now a citizen of the Republic of Georgia (scroll down a little) and playing on their national team.

I'm speechless. That may be the weirdest ACC alumni news I've ever heard."

Could you tell me how further can I prove?

Oh wait, I've found a better one http://www.fibaeurope.com/eurobasket2005/en/cid_SbGnUV12IgwUcAUu7UmfU1.pageID_o,vVNQz-JxAhPlrEBAj5v2.compID_qMRZdYCZI6EoANOrUf9le2.season_2005.roundID_3783.teamID_2187.html

I haven't touched to Bosnian players, but make sure that I'll go on improving the list, helping you ;)

[edit] Fallimento

Ciao, mi esprimo in italiano poichè è la lingua che meglio conosco e mi rivolgo a te che sei un italiano. Collaborare a questo progetto è per me un passatempo ma sostanzialmente lo ritengo un fallimento difatti alcuni organizzatori di wikipedia si sono resi conto dell'errore e hanno organizzato un'altra enciclopedia telematica con persone competenti che firmano ovviamente gli articoli! Il problema è che si devono affrontare discussioni lunghe, noiose, conflittuali e inutili poichè dopo altri modificano come pare a loro! I giochi nazionali devono esser definiti secondo certi criteri, come fai giustamente notare, ma nell'articolo questi criteri non sono chiari: puoi leggere il mio commento nella versione di discussione in italiano! La pallacanestro è il gioco più praticato e popolare nel mondo ma per dimostrarlo devo affrontare la solita discussione per verificare le fonti: come faccio a mostrarvi le statistiche di certi enti per la promozione di attività atletiche che ho solo su materiale cartaceo e solo in lingua italiana? Certo tramite scanner posso farlo ma altri mostreranno altre fonti: so perfettamente che i dati sono differenti poichè le varie federazioni mondiali fanno circolare dati falsi per mera pubblicità! Insomma la federazione mondiale del calcio mente sulla popolarità del suo gioco: il calcio non è così popolare come vogliono far credere tali calciofili truffaldini! Ho chili di documenti degli enti sportivi ma non ho il tempo nè la pazienza di smanettare tra scanner e tastiera!!!! Vi ho avvisato dell'errore, poi se qualcuno mi dà del troll allora proprio non val la pena neanche iniziare una discussione: questa enciclopedia non ha alcuna credibilità!!!! Puoi rispondermi qui sotto, ciao. LEO —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.33.89.32 (talk) 12:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Beh concordo pienamente con te.. :-) Difatti ormai lavoro solo su articoli che mi servono per cose personali. Per altro quella lista è palesemente falsata...In alcuni paesi il calcio non sanno neanche cosa sia (vedere il calcio tra gli sport nazionali della Cina è veramente ridicolo...). Io credo che bisognerebbe rendersi conto che, come fai notare tu, gioco e sport sono due cose diverse e che popolare o più praticato non vuol dire nazionale. Visti i criteri (sbagliati o quantomeno fuorvianti) dell'articolo, però, non si può dargli torto. Per quanto riguarda i fork di wikipedia...beh se conosci un'enciclopedia migliore fammelo sapere :-) io per ora ne ho trovate solo di molto simili a questa (che è destinata a fallire come ovvio). --necronudist 15:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Conosco it:Citizendium ma stanno altri progetti. LEO

[edit] Helmut Demucke

Hi, there are several sources that do cite a Helmut Demucke. I am thinking they all got it from the same place and it was an error. All of the places where this player should be found(USSF, Soccerhall, etc) there is no record of him. Off the record: I asked a player on the actual team and I was told he had never even heard of this name. Libro0 14:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Lino Marzorati

Ciao, ho appena letto l'articolo su lespresso.it da te segnalato su it.wiki. Non sapevo della storpiatura. --Freddyballo 21:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Grazie, anche a te. --Freddyballo 08:43, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1986 FIFA World Cup squads - Iraq

Well, I'm not an expert on Arabic names, but it appears that the first two names are sufficient: Ahmed Radhi, Hussein Saeed and Basil Gorgis only have two names in their page titles, so that's why I remove the third names. Chanheigeorge 22:49, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism on your talk page

I know it wasn't you - the edit summary was for the vandal who posted two separate personal attacks here. Your contribution to the discussion was perfectly reasonable as far as I can see. His/hers was just abuse. I also left a warning on his/her talk page, but as it is an IP address who knows if it will ever be read. Euryalus 11:26, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] unlinking

Thanks for fixing up link in List of foreign La Liga players. Stellar 13:20, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My sandbox

Hi! I worked on it before and I left it behind for weeks, because it's a hard and long work!But if you're ready to help me, we can edit it together! It would be a pleasure! I'm gonna work on it tonight and I will ask some editors if they can help us!Keep on the good work!--Latouffedisco 17:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

PS: some useful links (In French, obviously I can translate if you ask me)

I think we have some sources to keep on the article.

Sure, I've never found very good sources on the web. I know there are some books about the question.But I need to find them... But for the moment, the best we can do is to begin the article although it will remain incomplete... On the French wiki, I've found some players lists per clubs: see [[8]].But they are sometimes incomplete... I agree, a complete list is by now impossible to do. But would you like to keep on the article? I'm ready, I have reliable paper sources for the last ten years! I'm gonna ask some editors on the French and German wikis if they have some reliable paper sources to complete the article.--Latouffedisco 10:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I have found some links, it's still team pages, but it is useful:

I have also found a book about the 1992-93 season at home with a list of all players fo the season, and I have a list of players of Tours FC (4 seasons in Division 1).I think we have now a better percentage (maybe 20% or even more!).

I've also asked a German administrator if he could help us, I know he has the full list in a book at home.--Latouffedisco 12:50, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

He can't help us, but told me to ask a French editor, who is a specialist of French football and has plenty of books which could be useful!--Latouffedisco 15:17, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi. you're right, but what about the players born in France and who played for African teams, for exemple? Clio64B 16:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes we really need this book. Yeah, it's a bit expensive, we need to think about it, maybe I should buy it. But please consider that we have now a good list of links so that we can keep on the article, waiting better times for me to buy this book. Maybe the idea will be taken on French wiki so that we could copy their work, too.So, are you ready to work on the article even though we don't have this book? I'm personnaly ready and you would be helpful!--Latouffedisco 17:04, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

As you wish, but if I had this book, I would have to scan about 300 pages for you... That is huge, I think we both need it but the store is closed till 3 September. Waiting for it to open, I keep on the work, with your help or not. We will see how the article looks with these incomplete sources.--Latouffedisco 17:15, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

A good news!Clio64 has begun listing players from the book on the French wiki! see: [9]. With that, I think you have the reference you wanted to start the work!See you soon, hehe. ;)--Latouffedisco 18:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Hum, I can't wait!Remember that the book covers the season from 1932 to 1997, so we need to edit the last 10 years independently from it. So, I'm currently working on the last 10 years and you can help me, waiting for him to finish. And with the huge number of players, I prefer starting working on it as soon as possible.I prefer we work on the same page, the one I created in my sandbox, it would be better, I think. Thanks to allow me to upload the finished page, I just hope that someone would not be unfair with me...--Latouffedisco 18:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

We will start from the 1996-97 season, to be sure. You can start from the current season ang then go in the past, you will find more references. I will personnally start from the 1996-97 and go to the more recent seasons. OK, I won't modify Clio64's list.--Latouffedisco 19:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I understand for edit conflicts, we will just have to merge our 2 versions later.To help you in finding players of the last 10 years, see this site: [10], select the first letter of a team, then see when it played in Ligue 1/Division 1 and click on STATS DES JOUEURS, you will see the team squad in that season. I began this morning from the letter A, so start from the letter Z, to avoid doing the same work as me.I hope it will be helpful even though the site is in French.--Latouffedisco 09:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Your approach seems effective.So, we will see who has the best in a few days/weeks!!Good luck!--Latouffedisco 09:47, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I wanted to tell you that my list is complete for the 1997-today period i.e. the period which is not in the book. You can see it in my Sandbox. Be bold and tell me if you see any mistakes!--Latouffedisco 07:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I'm gonna keep on the list with pre-1997 players!Your help is much appreciated!--Latouffedisco 09:25, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RWC Squads

Yep, at some point I'll try to get around to some old squads - I'm not sure when though. The RWC03 site still has all of the squads for the last one, no luck yet for the older ones yet though. I'll keep looking! Starfighter Pilot 21:58, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kelly Youga

Hello. I don't think Kelly Youga has played in the EPL yet. His Soccerbase profile [11] said he has not made a first team appearance for Charlton. As for your source that indicated he played in three EPL matches ([12], [13], [14]) I think they made a mistake, as it should be Luke Young who was playing; see these match reports from Soccerbase ([15], [16], [17]) and Soccernet ([18], [19], [20]). Besides, according to Soccerbase he was on loan to Bradford in the second half of the 2006-07 season [21], which makes it quite improbable that he played for Charlton against West Ham and Newcastle. Chanheigeorge 19:37, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Here's the BBC Sport match report which indicates that it was Luke Young who played and was booked: [22]. I just don't think established sites such as BBC Sport or Soccernet would make a mistake between two players who look very different - one is white and the other is black; one is an ever-present player and one is a youth player who've never made an appearance. Chanheigeorge 19:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gino Pariani

Thanks for the catch. His father was Giovanni.[23] I suspect I had his father's name in my head when I typed this and didn't realize I wrote it wrong. However, your question made me dig deeper and I found that his middle name was Peter, so I added it to his bio.[24]Mohrflies 01:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sergei Gotsmanov

Thanks for the help on this article. I note there's now an inconsistency with his middle name between the lead (Anatolievich) and the infobox (Anatolyevich). Which is correct?

Also, should the article be renamed as Sergey Gotsmanov for consistency? --Daemonic Kangaroo 10:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1964 UEFA European Football Championship Squads

/Gyula Rákosi/

In this list there are those players who have played 
in the  whole cycle, 1962-1964.Gyula Rákosi
 in the final tournament list was not included.
For example:?.Thanks

86.100.3.251 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.100.3.251 (talk) 01:51, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tab Ramos

I don't know. The site you linked to seems to give that as his name. I added Tabares as his first name based on the following quote from a 1989 Los Angeles Times article, "I think we have an incredible advantage because Mexico is out,” said Tabares (Tab) Ramos, a Uruguay-born, 22-year old midfielder . . ." But that doesn't mean it's correct. Mohrflies (talk) 14:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Karamoko Cisse

Ho messo Sorisole semplicemente in quanto Petosino è frazione proprio di Sorisole, e non fa comune a sé, come puoi evincere anche dall'articolo della città di Sorisole stessa [25]. --Angelo (talk) 18:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Sul numero di telefono di Cisse, credo di non poterti aiutare :). Per quanto cocnerne la località di nascita terrei per adesso Sorisole/Petosino, visto che sia l'Atalanta sia Gazzetta.it fanno riferimento a questa piuttosto che a quel paese della Guinea. --Angelo (talk) 22:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding criteria for List of foreign Premier League players

Hello. Regarding whether players such as Adam Newton satisfy the criteria for inclusion in the list, I think the answer should be yes. If you read the current criteria (adapted from the original criteria you wrote), criteria 2-1 (originally criteria #2) is about players born outside of UK&Ireland so that if they're capped by England etc., then they should be excluded (e.g. Owen Hargreaves), while criteria 2-2 (originally criteria #3) is about players born inside of UK&Ireland so that if they're capped by a foreign team, then they should be included (e.g. Calum Willock). It's pretty obvious a player can satisfy either 2-1 or 2-2 but not both (you're either born outside or born inside), and for Newton (or Zesh Rehman), criteria 2-2 (not criteria 2-1) should be used as they're born in UK. Because they've been capped by a foreign senior team which overrides being capped by the England youth team, I think they should be included since they're now considered foreign internationals. Moreover, if you look at the difference between Newton and Willock, they're both born in England and capped by SKN senior, and the only difference is that one has been capped by England youth and the other has not. I don't see how this makes one less foreign (or more English) than the other. Chanheigeorge (talk) 21:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Well, I don't think I decide on the "criteria" myself. I base the criteria on whether a player is determined as a foreign international in the media, and players like Newton and Rehman are considered foreign internationals, so I think they should be included. As for updating, I find that it's actually the easiest to update after every matchday (just check websites such as soccerbase to see who's made their season debut); it actually takes more time to update occasionally, and I'm quite prone to miss a few here or there, which I dislike. The alternative is to update after the whole season, which I guess is not too good.... Chanheigeorge (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
BTW, what sources do you use for the World Cup squads from 1930 to 1950? Many of the sources I've seen differ in their lists, and some seem to be quite inaccurate (containing "fictional" players). Plus some squads in the wiki pages include players who were named to the squad but didn't travel, and some other squads do not, so there's quite a lot of inconsistency there. Chanheigeorge (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hungarian Players

Hello! There was a lot more players. As far as I know until the second half of XX century it was popular to change the names (especially German and Slavic) to Hungarian forms and few was better known under pseudonym. Therefore, in encyclopedic sources are given the names of all the options. Comparison: Czech source: 01-05-1930 TCH-HUN Hung. source 01-05-1930 TCH-HUN/ Aknai-Acht, Koranyi I-Kronenberger, Saros-Steiner, Vig II-Wilhelm, Titkos-Titschka.
Thank You.
User talk:86.100.80.165 —Preceding comment was added at 23:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1964 UEFA European Football Championship squads - Hungary

Seems like there was also Gyula Rákosi on the squad, is this true? -necronudist (talk) 14:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi! It seems like that you are right! Rákosi was really a member of the squad, but he didn't play. I checked it in old newspapers and I asked my father as well, and the both said that you're right :-) -gabute (talk) 12:49, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

About the 'alternative' surnames of Hungarian players. Basically Hungary was a multi-ethnic country for centuries, many nations settled in the area of the Hungarian kingdom, and many of these people became Hungarians. They used the Hungarian language, and they claimed themselves being Hungarians. But of course their last name was not Hungarian... after the Treaty of Trainon in 1920 Hungary lost 70% percent of its teritory, and thus national feelings were rising... as a matter of this, many Hungarians changed their last names to a 'more Hungarian' version during the 1920s and 1930s. This movement was even more frequent among people, representing the country, for example among actors or football players. In case of the footballers, a movement was started in 1929 by some clubs to change the name of all players to Hungarian, however in this case, only the playing name was changed, the original name remained the same. For example Albert Ströck was playing as Albert Török, but his real name in his ID's etc. remained Albert Ströck. I know this might lead to some confusions :D The funniest example is Ferenc Kropacsek, who was an international goalkeeper in the 1920s. He played under the following names: Kropacsek, Keveházi, Károlyi, Kossuth
About the players you asked:
- Sárosi. In his case - as far as I know - the name was changed for the whole family when Sárosi was young. Stefanincs is the real name, coming from the Serbian.
- Hidegkuti. I never heared "Kaltenbrunner" as his name, I think this is a mistake of the homepage. However Hungarian 'hideg' and German 'kalt" both mean cold, while kút and brunne both mean well.
- Budai. Bednárik was his original name, he changed it when he was already a known, 1st league player.
- Orth. Faludi was only his footballer name, he never really adpoted that one. And he - I think - only used it on a very few matches at the end of his career. Everyone remembered him as Orth.
- Palotás. I don't know much about his name changes.-gabute (talk) 19:02, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I've sent you an e-mail! gabute —Preceding comment was added at 11:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kaladze

Non mi ricordo, l'ho fatto parecchio tempo fa... forse qui? Ciao --Gaúcho (talk) 15:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Frank Vaughn

I've been searching both on line and through library data bases for Vaughn's obituary. I found nothing more than is already in the article, which I found surprising. I'm going to send an e-mail to USSF and the Hall of Fame and see if they have anything more.Mohrflies (talk) 14:16, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I just sent a second e-mail. Also, I never received a relpy from USSF or the National Hall of Fame. I did receive a response from the St. Louis Soccer Hall of Fame. They had no additional information on Vaughn than is in the current wikipedia article. Mohrflies (talk) 18:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of foreign Bundesliga players

Hi necronudist! As you can see my list of foreign Ligue 1 players is very hard to achieve, and as I know that you like this kind of list,maybe you could create a list of foreign Bundesliga players? It would be very useful, and as a main reference you could use fussballdaten.Of course, I would help you a little with this. Let me know.Thanks!--Latouffedisco (talk) 10:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ramon Zabalo

Depending on sources, he played for RC Paris till 1940 or 1944. But there is a convention about war championships:they never appeared in any Ligue 1/Division 1 championships. So, even if Zabalo left RC Paris in 1944, in the list only his pre-war seasons would appear. Hope this is clear enough... Sorry, I was not able to find any other datas...--Latouffedisco (talk) 07:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! --necronudist (talk) 10:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Luis Marín

Hi! I didn't find any information about Luis Marín Sabater being in Italy, but I've been searching for players named Luis or Martín (as named in the article before I edited it) in all the squads of La Liga teams from 1930 to 1940, and I only found Luis Marín, which surname is confused commonly with Martín and viceverse in Spain, so I just thought it might be him, because it doesn't seem normal that a player went to the World Cup wihtout having played any match in La Liga. Let me know if you discover something, and sorry if I'm wrong about Marín. - Xavier Martín (talk) 23:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Allow me to chime in. Here's a source I found: [26]. Whether it's credible or not, I don't know. Chanheigeorge (talk) 23:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I agree on that, I'll keep investigating... XMartín(talk) 10:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I am, but what do you mean about posting there? The Luis Marín thing? Don't we wait until we know the real thing? That's just a supposition. XMartín (talk) 10:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Alright, but yes it's true that there are no articles for squads, though there are in the ca.wikipediia, in which I'm a very active user, so I will post it there. XMartín (talk) 11:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tony Popovic

I moved your question and my reply to Talk:Tony Popovic. Gene Nygaard (talk) 17:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

This is also related: Talk:Muzzy İzzet#Requested move. Chanheigeorge (talk) 10:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sources for WC edits

FROM-*[27]-Olimpic calcio (Svezia) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.136.150.108 (talk) 09:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Sadowski

Hi. N et J Siri, AS Monaco 50 ans de football professionnel (1948-1998), Monaco, EGC, page 303 : Robert Sadowski, born september 19th 1918 at Carnovci (Romania). 86.73.155.192 (talk) 18:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hola! (Hello!)

Hello I am Dilema in wikipedia Spain!! Thank you for having answered to my message. I ask you to check the article that nowadays I am extending: Hércules CF. Might we advise me how to improve it? Things to add him, etc. On the other hand, I am very interested in player followed the track to this one Líder Mármol. It turns out that he was trying last summer in Coventry City FC and Reading FC. Just now I do not find any web that he speaks on his whereabouts. If you can help me he would be grateful for it to you, and if you can translate moderately well the article of Líder Mármol you would be the big one!!! Regards friend! --Herculano (talk) 20:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Portugal at the 1984 EC

RSSSF says Francisco Silva, and I remember UEFA.com sources also say Francisco Silva (unfortunately I can't quite find the links right now). What sources say Jorge Martins? Chanheigeorge (talk) 18:17, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I see. Is it possible that they're the same person? You know those Portuguese people have really long names! Okay, probably not. If there's really no "Francisco Silva" and you find a credible source that says "Jorge Martins", feel free to put it in. Chanheigeorge (talk) 22:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, his full name does contain "Silva", and he played for Vitória Setúbal in 1984, so he partially matches the "Francisco Silva" given in the RSSSF page. [28] I think that's likely to be him. Thanks for your research! Chanheigeorge (talk) 20:18, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RWC Squads

Hiya, sorry, I've not found much really. Not that I've looked terribly hard! Theres a few for specific countries (full squads for Wales, starting line-ups for New Zealand for instance) but nothing comprehensive as far as I can see. Starfighter Pilot (talk) 21:54, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] David Oldfield/Paul Tisdale

Hello Necronudist,

I've just been reading the article that you created entitled List of foreign Premier League players.

Great article! Very good stuff indeed!

I notice that you haven't included David Oldfield, who played Premiership football with Leicester City during the 1994/95 season, on the list.

He was born in Perth, Western Australia but made a solitary appearance for England U21. According to his Wikipedia article, he moved to England "at an early age".

I guess you've decided to put him in the John Barnes/Tony Dorigo/Robert Earnshaw/Jeremy Goss/Owen Hargreaves/John Salako/Pat van den Hauwe/Eric Young bracket......players born outside the UK and Eire who were capped by a team from inside the UK or Eire (even though he didn't received full international honours).

Besides David Oldfield, another player without any full international honours exempt from your list is Paul Tisdale.

He was born in Valletta, Malta and made Premiership appearances for Southampton in 1994/95 and 1995/96.

I guess like Oldfield, he is pretty much classed as English.

Standingfish (talk) 04:35, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cardiff City

It does appear that Cardiff City should be paired with the Welsh flag in the FIFA World Cup squad articles, given the information given in this news report. [29] Chanheigeorge (talk) 23:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

The article makes it pretty clear that all the relevant authorities (FIFA, UEFA, English FA, Welsh FA) treat Cardiff City as a Welsh club, not an English club. They were not allowed to represent England, so to pair them with an English flag in any article, implying that somehow they "fly the English flag", appears to be misrepresentation. (It'd be fine if it's paired with, say, the Football League logo). I know perhaps there was a "consensus", but if the consensus is not aligned with facts, it has to be overturned, and I have a feeling many Wikipedians vote without understanding the situation (even I wasn't aware that Cardiff City cannot play in Europe even if they'd win the FA Cup). I'll raise the issue at WP:FOOTBALL. Chanheigeorge (talk) 16:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Um, no, I don't think it's a matter of criteria. Anyway, I'll take it to WP:FOOTBALL, so we'll discuss there. Chanheigeorge (talk) 17:29, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Discussion at here. Chanheigeorge (talk) 19:53, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Thanks for still helping me with my list! As you may have seen, I'm close to complete it now!--Latouffedisco (talk) 08:32, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Axel Thufason

Thanks for the props. Yes, this is an interesting story! Maybe his family was from the Faroe Islands originally? But they came from Sweden to Denmark and then there Axel was born, so the place of birth Copenhagen seems to be right. Maybe you can ask in this case User:Poulsen? He is from Denmark so maybe he is able to give more info. Kind regards and :) Doma-w (talk) 21:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it looks like. Sorrily I have no better idea... Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 19:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Olympic squads

Hi!My source for olympic squads is just the FIFA official website. See here [30] for instance, the 1976 squads. By the way, my name in the real life is Erwan, a name from Brittany!--Latouffedisco (talk) 18:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, there is a lack of source, especially for old Olympics... I will try to be careful in the future. I will ask Doma-w to check the squads lists when completed.--Latouffedisco (talk) 19:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] US Soccer players who have played in La Liga

Please quit changing my edits. Tab Ramos played more than 70 games for UE Figueres and 18 games for Real Betis. Ante Razov played 19 games for Racing de Ferrol. Danny Szetela played in a Copa del Rey match for Racing de Santander -- I equate this to having played a game for La Liga, but you are free to disagree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.161.86.35 (talk) 20:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dragoje Lekovic

Dragoje Lekovic is a montenegrin goalkeeper. born in Sivac [Serbia] from montenegrin parents. The family spent there few years an than moved back to Montenegro. I am sure he consider himself a montenegrin not a serb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crabbyplum (talk • contribs) 09:49, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] England amateur caps

Hello! I have all the data gathered from such sources: (the main sources:iffhs; international matches project 1901-1910; 1911-1920 Europe/1911-1920 matches);(additional sources: Dutch-nl/1;nl/2;nl/3;nl/4;nl/5;nl/6;nl/7;/Belgian-be/1;be/2;be/3;be/4;be/5;/French-fr/1;fr/2;fr/3;fr/4;fr/5;/Danish-dk/1;dk/2;dk/3;/German-de/1;de/2;de/3). Who played and how many players have played matches you have to count himself. I hope issues will not be for you. Thanks for the your wishes. User talk:86.100.80.165 11:30 , 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Costel Radelescu

I don't know if Radelescu the football coach is the same as Raselscu the bobsledder. From Radelescu's article, there is a possiblity he may have played against Alexandru Papana, a footballer who turned bobsledder. There may be a link between those two. The only results are Radelescu are the 1936 Winter Olympic bobsleigh results. If you have any information on Radelescu doing that, then we can put it in. Otherwise, let's split this article up into football and bobsleigh and put the main name as a dab. Chris (talk) 18:18, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for not replying earlier. I looked at it briefly but cannot find any evidence for or against that those two are the same person. There are a few Romanian links in the Radelescu article but they're all dead. The Romanian wikipedia article is a stub too. So honestly I have no idea. Chanheigeorge (talk) 22:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Euro squads

Hi, I am wanted to get some opinions from people here and here. Libro0 (talk) 20:37, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of foreign Premier League players

Thanks! It's been my passion to maintain this list, and also Category:Premier League players (it now contains every player who has made an EPL appearance). I actually don't know if I'll still edit with such high frequency for next season, since I'll be moving to a new country and a new job in the summer. But I'll definitely keep an eye on my watchlist whenever I have the time. Have a great summer! Chanheigeorge (talk) 17:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

From the USA to Japan. Well, I'm sure I'll still be updating once a week, just not an hour after the games due to the time difference.... Chanheigeorge (talk) 18:14, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Forum with football historians

It is here: Index.hu forum

Unfortunately it is in Hungarian... :-(

[edit] Fritz Szepan

Ciao, Christian. I can assure you that neither Fritz Szepan nor his parents ever were Polish. As you can see if you follow the link to de:Landkreis Neidenburg, the region where Fritz's parents came from had been German from mid 14th century, when people under the Deutscher Orden settled in this hitherto mostly unpopulated area. As from mid 16th century it belonged to Prussian province East Prussia and, as such, became a part of the Deutsches Reich in the 19th century. It was not until after WW1 that a part of the region became a part of the Polish state. This, however, was quite a few years after August Szepan - Fritz's father - had emigrated to the Ruhr area. As for the name's spelling, I rely on Stefan Goch and Norbert Silberbach, historians with the Gelsenkirchen institute for city history, and their study on Schalke club and players in the time of the Nazis, "Zwischen Blau und Weiß liegt Grau" ("In between blue and white, there's gray"), which was published as a book in 2005. They cite the names from the files in the Gelsenkirchen registration office (cf. ref-note in de:Fritz Szepan). They also show (on page 146 of their book) a facsimile of a letter from FC Schalke in Buersche Zeitung newspaper from 1934, in which the birthplaces of Fritz's parents, August Szepan (born in Neu-Borowen [later renamed Buschwalde, cf. verwaltungsgeschichte.de] in 1870) and Karoline Szepan (born in Braynicken in 1870) are mentioned. Both places were at the time part of Landkreis Neidenburg, in Eastern Prussia, thus both Fritz's parents as well as himself were Germans and, therefore, had German forenames. However, of course, a high percentage of people in Masuria spoke Masurian dialect (according to de:Masurische Sprache, in Landkreis Neidenburg they were almost a third) and probably a lot of German families there had Masurian family names - as, as it seems, the Sczepans did. And, like other German families, they had come to the Ruhr area answering a call for working power for the coal mines. Many of the Western Germans there, however, often did not accept those Eastern Germans and pejoratively called them Polish or Polak. Also, the term Ruhrpolen ("Poles in the Ruhr area") was coined, although they were not foreigners, cf. Deutsches Historisches Museum. Thus, to describe Fritz Szepan or others, whose biogs are similar, as having been Poles or of Polish descent seems to be quite incorrect. Kind regards, --Jo Atmon ello 21:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Ciao again, Christian. Well, of course I am neither a historian nor a relative or personal acquaintance of the Szepans. I trust, however, in the author-historians of the Schalke history book. They work for the Gelsenkirchen institute of city history and made their study on behalf of Schalke 04 clubleaders to clear Schalke's role in the Third Reich. They were allowed and able to examine the relevant files of the city of Gelsenkirchen; especially as concerns the players' activities, of which Szepan's are the worst, he having made profit from buying cheaply a shop formerly owned by deported Jewish citizens.

They also make clear in the book that, in 1906, about 58,000 Masurians lived in the Ruhr area, about 16,000 of which in Gelsenkirchen. On page 37 they explain about the differences between Masurians and Polish, though of course the Masurian language was an old-Polish dialect. "Masurians themselves, however, disassociated themselves from the Polish," Goch/Silberbach cite Andreas Kossert's studies Masuren, Ostpreußens vergessener Süden (Masuria, East Prussias forgotten south) (Berlin 2001) and Preußen, Deutsche oder Polen? Die Masuren im Spannungsfeld des ethnischen Nationalismus 1870-1956 (Prussians, Germans, or Poles? Masurians in the field of tension of ethnical nationalism 1870-1956) (Wiesbaden 2001 - Deutsches Historisches Institut Warschau [Warszawa], Quellen und Studien, Bd. 12), and they continue, "Masurians referred to themselves as Altpreußen (Old Prussians)". Historically, the Masurians especially estranged from the Poles when the Church split: Masurians became Lutherans, the Poles remained Catholics.

For the 1925 through 1930 Schalke team players (among them, Szepan and Ernst Kuzorra, the authors state, that they could trace the histories of 31 (of 33 altogether) of these; 25 of them were born in Gelsenkirchen, three from towns roundabout Gelsenkirchen, one more from the west of the Reich and only two had come from the eastern provinces. Of their fathers, 18 had migrated from eastern German provinces. The high number of Lutherans among them (also 18) lets them conclude that quite a few were of Masurian descent. Nowhere do they state for any players or club members having been of Polish descent. My own conclusion: I don't think it is probable, but there might still have been Poles in the generation of their grandfathers, for which there are no files. And, of course, there also were immigrants from other parts of eastern Deutsches Reich (Province of Posen, West Prussia), for whom the chance of finding people of Polish descent among them would be quite higher. This last statement, however, does obviously not apply to Szepan.

Of course, I am not 100% sure about the spelling of Sczepan - but, as in the late 1920s and 1930s he was an employee of the city of Gelsenkirchen, the authors of the book should have his name in the files. But it might still be a typing error, might it not? (This one foot-note is the only place in the book claiming the full name, in all other contexts the name is spelt Szepan.)

BTW - no bother at all. Maybe one day, I shall need to know something and shall ask you for advice. Sharing knowledge - that is what Wikipedia is all about, isn't it? :-) --Jo Atmon ello 00:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pepe Reina

His article says that "Pepe" is his preferred nickname, which implies that it is the nickname he prefers over all other nicknames. However, it does not say that he prefers to be called "Pepe" instead of "José Manuel". – PeeJay 00:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ligue 1 list

Hi! Finally I put the list online at List of foreign Ligue 1 players. Thanks again for your help. Regards.--Latouffedisco (talk) 18:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Max Schirschin

Why did you add him to the list of foreign players under Poland? The playerhistory site says he was German, and indeed he was born in Germany, in what was then called Kränstadt (now Krzanowice) near Ratibor (Racibórz). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.221.212.209 (talk) 15:52, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS

Just because other articles omit this information doesn't mean it shouldn't be included in the UEFA Euro 2008 squads article. They probably didn't have access to such information when those articles were created, or maybe they didn't think it was pertinent back then. But since we have sourced the information for this article, I see no reason why it should be deleted. – PeeJay 14:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Please continue the discussion on the article's talk page. And please, leave the information in until the discussion is over. It is your position to argue for its removal, not our's to argue for its inclusion. – PeeJay 14:54, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I think the "de facto" standard was set when we started adding the extra information into the article. There is nothing wrong with having that info in there, so please, discuss it before removing the info again. – PeeJay 14:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the book suggestion, I think I will order the book since it will probably be a fantastic source for the article. The lists of foreign players from your userpage are also great. I hope you'll help out with the article once I get down to writing it. Also, too bad for Italy they are in the Euro group with Holland, you're going to lose :-P Cheers, JACOPLANE • 2008-05-29 17:00

[edit] Karl Ansén

Hi Christian! Source can be found here: [31] Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 17:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

 :) No problem, my friend! Kind regards Doma-w (talk) 17:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ryszard Piec

With my sentence Ryszard Leon Piec was born as Ryszard Leon Piec. I could hear nothing so that he was named differently. I am greeting Adik7swiony (talk) 15:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Many persons were born under annexed territories and about them as Germans or Russians, e.g. Józef Piłsudski isn't saying himself. The same it is necessary to say about Ryszard Piec. And name Wilhelm is also Polish. There is here in my opinion no what to explain.Adik7swiony (talk) 18:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Olympic squads

You're right! I'm gonna correct this, Christian.--Latouffedisco (talk) 11:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

As you wish. But I've already removed these flags from the 1968, 1972 and 1976 squad lists.--Latouffedisco (talk) 11:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yugoslavian names at birth

Sorry, I couldn't answer sooner - I was away for a while. As for the issue of original spelling of Yugoslav names it only applies to Macedonian players really (players born in what was known as Socialist Republic of Macedonia within SFR Yugoslavia and previously People's Republic of Macedonia within FPR Yugoslavia, and even prior to that in certain parts of Vardar Banovina within Kingdom of Yugoslavia). In all the other republics (except for Slovenia which had Slovenian language that only uses Latin script), Latin and Cyrillic script of the official Serbo-Croat language were used interchangeably (meaning that they map one-to-one when compared to each other).

The example with Josip Katalinski is not a good one since he was born in People's Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina where at the time of his birth both Latin and Cyrillic were both used in official documents all over the republic. So whether he was entered in the ID documents as Josip Katalinski or Јосип Каталински is entirely irrelevant since it depended purely on chance or something mundane like which typewriter they had available that day at the registrar's office or whatever. I'll give you my own example - I was also born in SR Bosnia-Herzegovina within SFR Yugoslavia and in some documents I'm entered as Zvonimir Milovanović and in others I'm entered as Звонимир Миловановић. Now, while it is true that most people in Croatia (ethnic Croats), and a relative majority of people in Bosnia (ethnic Croats, and ethnic Slavic Muslims) mostly used Latin script in everyday correspondence wheres the majority of people in Serbia and Montenegro (ethnic Serbs and Montenegrins) preferred to use the Cyrillic script, the fact is that both scripts were official and interchangeable across the territories where Serbo-Croat language was widely used (all republic except for Slovenia and Macedonia).

Now back to Macedonian players. It is safe to assume that most of the players born in SR Macedonia or PR Macedonia regardless of their ethnic origin had their name written in Macedonian Cyrillic in the official documents. So therefore, a player like Milko Đurovski (an ethnic Macedonian) who was known under that spelling in most of the SFR Yugoslavia (or alternately Милко Ђуровски in Serbian Cyrillic) probably had his name spelled in official local Macedonian documents as Милко Ѓуровски in line with Macedonian Cyrillic. Same for example for ethnic Serbian players who were born on the territory of SR Macedonia like Saša Ćirić (Саша Ћирић in Serbian Cyrillic) - his name in the Macedonian documents was probably Сашa Ќириќ.

Now that I've sufficiently confused you, feel free to ask any further questions. :) Zvonko (talk) 13:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)