Talk:Necktie/Archive 1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Archive 1

This is the archive page; feel free to add to it


Hello. I noticed that this page wasn't there, and therefore created it.

   -FB (frank@hero.artos.com)

  Father's gift.  Hysterical.  Keep up the good work, guys and girls.
  -FB

Thanks for the wikipedia-ization, people.

 -FB

This article is a little too definitive for my tastes: what is the source for this material? The closest I can find is this: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_155.html

...which says nothing about a Croatian mercenary coming to the court of England, only that "In the 17th century, Louis XIV's Croatian regiment also wore neck cloths, whence we derive our word "cravat," from the French cravate, for "Croatian." ". Unless anyone objects within 7 days, I'll modify this accordingly. - David Stewart 03:48, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Doesn't sound like a change that needs a week-long waiting period. Go for it now<G>. -- Someone else 03:57, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)
I actually wanted to wait and hear from the author of the article. Its an interesting statement and if it has a valid source then I'd like to know about it. I'm not entirely happy about changing it until we hear from him. 7 days should be enough time. - David Stewart 04:04, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Actually, david, my source is, embaressingly enough, a book called "How Rude" that describes manners. They gave that source of history for the necktie and explained that, had history been a little different, us menfolk would dress up with a small dollip of mustard on our nose. Or something equally strange. I no longer possess this book, but I will try to find it again.

 -FB

LOL. Perhaps the book has a reference for the story? - David Stewart 02:01, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Safe assumption, David. I'll see if my parents kept their copy of the book.

  -- FB

Okay, two questions:

1. Why does Mr. Amsberg come up when searching for "Tie?" 2. What does Mr. Amsberg have to do with neckties?

I think that is very clear if you look at the 2nd half of Claus von Amsberg. - Patrick 05:43, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Wow. Reminds me of that joke about "Which sex is smarter? Obviously the women, the men start each day by tying a rope around their neck."

Excellent work with the links.  :)

 -FB

[edit] True or false??

True or false: it has become common recently for women to wear neck ties. 66.245.8.15 01:05, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I wouldn't say "common," but I also wouldn't say it's highly unusual. I have seen some women wearing neckties, and a few have contacted or thanked me for advice (because they found The Necktie Repository), but guessing, I'd say 1% of my mail is related to a woman wearing a tie. -- ke4roh 01:37, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Links to non-English sites

I can find nothing in Wikipedia guidelines that rules out external links to sites in non-English languages (perhaps I've missed it — there's a lot of material to wade through). Nor do I understand the objection to such links, so long as the fact that they're in French, for example, is clearly stated. Many users of the Encyclopædia read more than one language, and if there's a useful resource in another language, what harm is there in making it available. We're not shoving French ties down people's throats, just offering them the option. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:25, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The external link in question http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jf.gateau/linguist/linguist.htm doesn't appear to be in any way useful to this article. What exactly does it give us that is not already contained either in the article or in the other external links? Jooler 20:25, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Aside from anything else, it gives another source for theories about the origins of the tie, plus relevant terms in various languages. What I don't understand is why you (and another) are so set against it. Is your claim that all the other external links provide something unique? The four sites on how to tie a tie (including the one that you've just added)? Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:33, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
My main problem is that I can't read French so it is of absolutely no use to me whatsoever, it might as well be in Chinese. Why not try to find and English language alternative, or better still put the alternate explanation given in this site in the Wikipedia article. The link that I've added it not about how to tie a tie, it is an abstract about the mathematical modelling that was used by the two Cambridge researchers in order to enumerate all of the possible ways in which a tie can be tied, that formed the basis of their book "85 ways to tie a tie". This is certainly unique. As for the others if they are all the same or very similar then I agree they should be culled, I haven't bothered to check. Jooler 22:56, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

But the links aren't there just for you! Many Wikipedia articles have links to foreign-language sites; unless you have a genuine reason for removing this, please leave it alone. I found the site interesting, I suspect that many other readers of the article would also find it interesting. Unless you have some reason for thinking otherwise (apart from the fact that you don't speak French), it should stay. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:50, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Mel Etitis is dead right here! There are no reasons to forbid information that is available in a familiar foreign language, which supplements information in other references, and which may even provide the source that Wikipedians are being invited to cite. --Wetman 09:12, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ties as signs of membership

Are there any references here, or is this all original reasearch? --Wetman 11:51, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well well, no sooner do I have an argument with you on one article, but you pop up on an article listed on my User page with a challenge to my contribution. Interesting coincidence. The references are in the External links section. Was there some reason that you challenged just the section that I added, or can you see references included in the text of the other sections which are invisible to me? Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:13, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
No challenge intended. Mel Etitis hasn't read my contributions at Cravat, apparently, made before he began at Wikipedia. I have no problem with original research, when it is so well presented. --Wetman 19:30, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)