Talk:Neal Blaney

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[edit] Neal not Neil

The Irish Times of 25 July 2005 calls this individual "Neal Blaney", his son "Neil Blaney", and his grandson "Niall Blaney". Perhaps this article needs to be moved to Neal Blaney. --Damac 09:13, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmmmmm. The history page on the Independent Fianna Fail website calls him "Neal", but he is called "Neil" both on electionsIreland.org and on the oireachtas members database. So I set about looking in the record of Dail debates from 1927-37.
There I can find lots of references to him as "Neil Blaney": [1], [2], [3] and [4].
I hoped that would be the end of the matter, but unfortunately, there are also references to "Neal Blaney", such as [5].
So I tried searching for both variants as a speaker, and I got:
Neil Blaney: 6 hitts
Neal Blaney: 0 hits
My money is on "Neil" as being correct, but it's not exactly clearcut :( --BrownHairedGirl 21:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm going for the version of the name mentioned on the IFF website. Neal is also the spelling which the Irish Times, Ireland's paper of record, has been using over the past fortnight if not earlier.
My experience is that the Dáil Debates are not a credible source when it comes to naming issues like this. ElectionsIreland is continuing the mistake. The spelling of names such as Neal/Niall/Nial/Neill etc was not always consistent and depended in many cases on the whims of the stenographer. I am aware that the spelling "Neal" was once very common, particularly for people born before Irish became a subject in schools. "Neal" has now almost completely died out and has been replaced by the the other variants, which are closer to the spelling of the Irish original.
My money's on Neal. The only way to be sure, however, is to get a copy of his birth cert. --Damac 11:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
BTW: "Neal Blaney" does surface in the Dáil Debates. I don't know what parameters you gave for your Neal/Neil search, but doing a search on speaker only does not really help, as in most cases teh speaker was mentioned as "Mr Blaney". More telling is a search on the various forms of the name for the 1919-1948 period:
  • Neal Blaney - 859 hits[6]
  • Neil Blaney - 24 hits[7]
  • Niall Blaney - 2 hits[8]
I rest my case.--Damac 11:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi Damac, that's interesting. I searched by speaker, because although it'll usually be entered as Mr Blaney, I thought that there was less chance of false positives by looking for speaker -- my hunch was that whoever edited the stenograopher's output would be particularly inclined to check the speaker's name, and less diligent over the text of the speeches. (That may be a poor assumption).
Not sure that a search from 1919 is relevant, since NB only entered the Dail in 1927, but I dunno how much difference that would make, and I haven't the energy to check.
Based on your results, though, Neal does look the more likely option after all ... but as you say, we won't know for certain without checking the registry of births (is anyone near Lombard Street?). Still, since the IFF website probably reflects the family usage, I'm inclined to regard its usage of "Neal" as being as close to definitive as we can get for now.
Meanwhile, I have emailed Niall Blaney TD (CC to electionsIreland and the Oireachtas webmaster), and asked him to help. If he replies, I'll ask for his permission to post the response here. --BrownHairedGirl 12:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
As I was beginning to think, Damac is right. :)
Niall Blaney's office has replied this morning to confirm that the correct spelling of the 1927–1948 TD is indeed Neal. I'll now ask for permission to post the reply here, for the record. --BrownHairedGirl 09:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Text of email reply from Niall Blaney's office, 1st August 2006 (quoted with permission):
To clarify the situation between all the Neil's and Neal's and Niall's!

Niall is the current TD for Donegal North East
Neal Blaney was Niall's grandfather. He was elected in 1927 and was a TD until his death in 1948.
Neil T Blaney was Niall's uncle (Neal's son). He was elected in 1948 after his father's death and was a TD until his own death in 1995.
Harry Blaney is Niall's father (Neal's son and Neil T's brother) and was a TD from 1997 until 2002.

So from all of that, there have been four TD members of the Blaney family. Neal Blaney, his two sons Neil T and Harry, and his grandson Niall (current TD).

I hope I haven't confused you even more."
--BrownHairedGirl 10:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
The oireachtas members database has now been changed aslo, to say Neal. --BrownHairedGirl 20:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)