Talk:Nazi chic

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An alternative use of the term 'Nazi Chic' is to refer to German fashions for the lady during the era of Hitler. There is a book on this, but I've never read it. If anyone knows anything about it, feel free to contribute. The U.D. Terrorist

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[edit] Horribly, horribly, unsalvagably POV

Che has nothing to do with Nazi Chic

The section on Asian Nazi chic is dangerously POV/boarderline racist.

"East Asians tend to admire the Nazi work ethic, as well as militaries that [...] did as they pleased"

"South Korea was a right-wing dictatorship until 1987, [not that this is nessicarily untrue] and Japan remains an ultraconservative country." (Japan as a whole isn't nessicarily liberal, but ultraconservative? What does this have to with dressing up as a Nazi?)

"A possible explanation for the popularity of non-political Nazism in these regions lies in how the Second World War is taught in schools. Many of the countries did not participate in fighting against Nazism in the Second World War, but rather a neighboring country. The Second World War is not taught in schools as a battle of ideologies, but a conventional war. This means that Hitler and the NSDAP are not treated as war criminals or evil, but as leaders of countries during wartime. This means that students are invited to make up their own minds on how they view Hitler. Given that students are likely to be aware of his charisma and power, it is not surprising that many view Hitler as the epitome of cool."

So let's see if I get this right. Because the governments of South Korea and Japan are conservative, that means all Asians are conservative. That means all Asians admire Hitler and the Nazis. That's because Asians aren't force-fed History Channel/Patton/Band of Brothers/Medal of Honor style romanticism of WWII typically shoved down the throats of Americans by American conservatives. And this explains why a handful of Japanese hipsters think black military jackets are cool.

Things like choosing an article about fashion to compose incoherent rants about the socio-ethnic problems of a culture make me love Wikipedia.68.235.182.4 02:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The above commenter CLEARLY reads meaning (and ironically his OWN POV) into the article. He fails to take into account that if a government is generally conservative or liberal, it follows that the culture would tend to follow the same line. Furthermore, where did he get the idea that Americans are "force-fed" a biased view of WWII? And how is Nazi Chic a socio-ethnic problem? What is inherently wrong with dressing like a Nazi? It seems that above poster is so ingrained in his own POV that he cannot conceptualize of a non-evil Hitler. Although responsible for the Holocaust, Hitler also reduced unemployment in Germany to almost zero and saved the economy during his chancellorship, thus saving many, many other lives from starvation, inadequate shelter, and the like.
"Although responsible for the Holocaust, Hitler also reduced unemployment in Germany to almost zero and saved the economy during his chancellorship, thus saving many, many other lives from starvation, inadequate shelter, and the like." Yes mate, unemployment was certainly reduced by Hitler. As jews and other 'undesirables' were gradually carted off to concentration camps, the German job market certainly opened up. Germans were forced into some sort of service. Germany's economic miracle in the 1930s was a byproduct of Hitler's gangsterish policies including crippling wage limits on workers, and the creation of false bonds, of which the singular purpose of which was to rearm the country in secret and in violation of the the Versaille treaty. My personal favourite Hitler trick was convincing millions of workers to pay a portion of their wage to buy a Volkswagen car on an installment plan, whereupon the entire income from this was then diverted to the Luftwaffe. Not a single Beetle was produced until after the war ended.
Indeed, this article could well do with a lot more about fashion and a little less unsubstantiated editorializing. After reading it, I still have only a very vague idea of what "Nazi chic" means. I notice Siouxsie and the Banshees aren't mentioned either... --Delirium 21:31, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't say a word about goth subculture or neofolk. And it's quite a statement to say that all westerners are horrified by dressing up in Third Reich era costumes... --Taivaansusi
Please see the discussion below. I think this article is in serious need of a citation of sources because as it currently stands the article is very weak. --User:--- 08.00, 19th March 2006 (GMT)
Considering the concept "Nazi chic" is made in America, I wonder how applicable it is to Nazi cosplayers in Asia. They all dress up for different reasons. While some say "I just like the costumes", some would say "the Nazis understood Asian philosophies when the rest of the world was more racist about yellow people". Japan actually allied with Germany, and while Japan restricted American&British media, music, publifications during the WW2, people were highly encouraged to learn about German and Italian culture. So many writers, creators, artists who experienced the war as teenagers were greatly influenced by Nazi Germany literatures. Some people do find in aesthetics/validity in Nazi culture and carry on that tradition. But again, the only thing Comiket(the biggest anime convention in Japan) says is that if you are wearing a Nazi costume, you have to be able to self justify.

also, "white in asia" does not make sense. Japan was at war with the "barbarian" whites of Britain and America. "Aryan of the East" is the proper term, and Japan also called the Nazis "the Samurai of the West"


I would just like to say that whoever typed that stuff about america being force-fed history channel BS earlier is cool. You rule. Oh, and so does that guy that typed two entries ago. 88 myspace.com/jessethemetalemperor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.70.141.200 (talk) 00:30, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nazi culture and Asian rise

I have edited the spelling & grammar, re-phrased the majority of this section and also included internal links to other wiki articles.

Whoever originally wrote this section, or anyone with the ability to do so: I would like to see some sources included to the points declared as without them, the section is weak and cannot be declared as fact.

[edit] Early Use and some other points

"Fascist groups such as Sir Oswald Mosely's Blackshirts had used swastika armbands and various military uniforms since the 1930's." Could do with a tidy. They wore uniforms from 1932-1936, they never used swastika armbands they wore this ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:British_Union_of_Fascists_flag.ant.svg . It's a good idea for an entry but it's underdeveloped, there's no mention of the non-nazi global use of the swastika, suggesting mainstreaming as a Nazi icon didn't really kick off until the seventies is a trifle short sighted, and Dior's making dresses for the wives of German Army isn't automatically a Nazi involvement. I like the underlying sentiment of this entry though, and would be interested in working on it with any interested folk. Hence the discussion rather than a hack and slash edit. PhilipPage 23:17, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Israel Western?

Is it reasonable for Israel to be categorised as 'Western'? It is geographically found in the middle east.

[edit] Gross Ignorance of Historical Detail

The "swastika" on prince Harry's infamous costume was actually a Finnish cross, used by the Finnish army, not the Germans. The costume itself severely inaccurate. The whole thing about Prince Harry is the product of tabloids run amok. It's pure, unadulterated, sensationalism. No nazi ever wore a uniform like that. This controversy should be buried and NOT used as any sort of example of Nazi Chic.

Also, Dita Von Teese's "nazi" chic garb looks more like an Eastern German border guard or army uniform. Nothing about that uniform is explicitly Nazi. It's simply German. SO, if anything, it plays into some sort of Berlin Wall related fetish and should NOT be used as an example of Nazi Chic.

And, this article makes no mention at all of the Hells Angels motorcycle club during the 1960's when they most frequently wore and displayed nazi paraphernalia and symbols.

Read a book!!

I don't know; I mean, i'm not speaking on behalf of an anti-Nazi bias or anything, rather, I credit Prince Harry for daring to wear that. But it was khaki, and it was in a red armband. I doubt religous figures in Finland wore the Finnish cross in a red armband. I think it was just a different version of the swastika, changed so that it wasn't blatantly Nazi. but seriously, the thought police need to shut up about this.

[edit] Hitler European Tour t-shirt

I haven't edited the main article as I do not know enough of the facts, but as I understand it the infamous 'Hitler European Tour' t-shirt was simply an extremely bad taste example of typical British seaside humour shirts, and I would commonly see them for sale at various UK seaside resorts during the mid 1980s. I would go on to say that it is pure speculation to state that these shirts were appropriated and worn by members of far-right organisations. They were simply a tacky joke. Indeed, my personal feelings on the matter would be that the sentiments portrayed and the jokey nature of the shirt would make it unlikely for it to be worn by such people, who take such political views extremely seriously. It is my understanding that the design of this shirt was credited to a Mr. Wayne Morris, better known as a music manager, responsible for bands on his Lazy Records label. Best known of these was Coventry band The Primitives, who scored several hits back in the late 1980s, and whose first record released in 1985 was financed with the profits from the sale of the Hitler t-shirts.

[edit] Image:Ditavonteeseul.jpg

Can someone help me save this image from this deletionist? Chris 23:06, 16 October 2006 (UTC)