Talk:Navjote

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[edit] Why Navjote and not Sedre Pushi?

Why should the article be called Navjote and not Sedre Pushi? --Rayis 00:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

because...
  1. There is no consistent spelling of the latter term. You use 'Sedre Pushi', the article uses 'Sedreh Pushi', the spelling of the first hit if you search for Navjote on Google is 'Sudre-Pooshi'.
  2. Navjote is the commonly known name, and hence the more likely word to be searched for. cf: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). Compare:
    • Number of Google hits for 'Sudre Pushi' (as you spell it): 3
    • Number of Google hits for 'Sedreh Pushi' (as the article spells it): 136
    • Number of Google hits for Navjote: 851
It really doesn't matter from a user's point-of-view, because 'Sedreh pushi' is a redirect to Navjote.
-- Fullstop 08:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] nirang

I'm told that during a navjote, the person drinks the urine of some special bull or somesuch. Does anyone know the specifics of this?--Hraefen Talk 21:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

What specifically do you want to know? :)
  1. Nirang (actually: Nerang) is indeed sanctified urine from a special bull.
    • it has nothing directly to do with a Navjote
    • the consumation of Nirang was once part of several ritual cleansing ceremonies (one of which incidentally occurs before a Navjote)
    • Nirang has long been superceded by wine or rosewater
  2. Nirangdin (actually: Nerang-din) also has nothing whatsoever to do with a Navjote.
    • Nerangdin, meaning "day of Nirang", is a ceremony at which Nerang is prepared.
    • It is a horrendously complicated and expensive procedure.
    • It is a primarily a ritual for the souls of the dead.
    • It is very rarely performed.
    • It is structurally similar to a Nawar ceremony, which is the initiation of a priest.
  3. The only ones who cling to the Nerangdin and the use of Nerang are a faction of Bhagaria priests, a group of "traditionalists" (their euphemism for what in any other religion would be called "extremists") and whose website you cited. In India (which is where they are from), the Bhagarias have a monopoly on the Nirangdin, and consequently - as coarse as it might sound - have a financial interest in keeping the practice alive. A Nirangdin can easily cost upwards of 50,000 Rupees (thats 1,200 USD, 850 EUR) in priest fees.
For more info, see Boyce "Pādyab and Nērang: Two Pahlavi terms further considered" BSOAS 54 (1991), pp 281-291; Modi "Religious Customs ..." (1937), pp 242-243; Stausberg DRZ III (2004), pp 344-349
--Fullstop 13:08, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Alright, so rather than deleting all mention of it, why don't we leave it, but mention that it is a rare practice? I personally know two Parsis that drink nirang at their navjote. I'm all for mentioning any of this info you bring up, but simply not mentioning the practice at all doesn't seem to be honest or informative.--Hraefen Talk 22:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Because, as I said before, the Nirang is not part of the Navjote?
Because, as I said before, the Nirangdin has nothing whatsoever to do with the Navjote?
You've also misunderstood something that your Parsi friends told you (or they were imprecise). The Nirang is consumed before (as I already said above) the Navjote, as part of the Nahn (cleansing, literally "bath") ceremony.
If they told you that it was part of the Navjote, I bet that your friends are not married, have not started priestly training, haven't had a Vendidad Sade performed for them, have never had to accompany the dead, and are themselves not yet dead.
These are some of the other instances when the Nahn ceremony is performed for an individual.
-- Fullstop 00:02, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
ps: If you seriously want to write about the Nirang, write an article on ritual cleanliness in Zoroastrianism. Thats the context in which the Nirang is pertinent. It also has nothing to do with transubstantiation, but is simply the result of some 3rd-6th century person's discovery that Nirang is aseptic, hence "the" way to combat/prevent nasu (sepsis being one of the forms of nasu).
-- Fullstop 00:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Ok, fair enough. It seems my friends were not aware that the nahn is considered to be different from the navjote itself. How about you write the page about nahn or ritual cleanliness in Zoroastrianism? You seem to know a lot about it. I'll back you up if it gets AFDed. I think that the nahn is interesting and it may prove to be useful information, even to inducted Zoroastrians (as my friends' ignorance illustrates). What do you think?--Hraefen Talk 02:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Ritual purification is an immensely interesting (and central) topic, and I already have a stack of notes on it somewhere. But there are only so many hours in a day and a great deal to finish first. However sad it may sound, if you're missing something about Z. on WP, it usually means I haven't gotten around to it yet (even the primary ritual - Yasna - is only barely alluded to).
Also, to give you an idea what ritual purification in Z. entails, see from here to the end of that page; some 90 pages (87-177) of a 1922 edition of Modi's book.
And thats just for persons. Ritual purification of inanimate objects (ritual instruments, precinct etc) is yet another ball of wax.
-- Fullstop 03:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
ps: exercise caution when reading Modi ... he likes to draw compare things that aren't really comparable. :) cf. also this talk.