Talk:Nationalism in the United States

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This article was nominated for deletion on September 29, 2005. The result of the discussion was Keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

Saying that the US won the the war might give the wrong idea since Canada (and at the time britain) also claim to have won it. Add to that the fact that many historians claim that there were no winner on either side and it might be better to say that the unitedstaters *felt* that they had won the war of 1812.--Marc pasquin 16:58, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] This article should be deleted

No serious scholar would place an article about American nationalism in an encyclopedia. American patriotism, yes, but not nationalism. Think about the following sentence: "American nationalists stormed the Capitol." That is a sentence that one can't even imagine being written. "American nationalists" just doesn't make sense. I'm new to WP, so I'm not sure whether it's possible to nominate this article for deletion again. Is it? --Cultural Freedom talk 2006-06-24 10:00 (UTC)

I think it would be neat if we just changed it from a patriotism redirect to nationalism, to a nationalism redirect to patriotism, and re woorded it to fit. -nightpotato

  • The idea that there is no nationalism only patriotism in the US is a myth, a national myth, and national myths are a large part of nationalism. In fact, one could argue that the US is one of the most nationalistic nations on earth. Look at all the rules there are regarding the flag, cannot touch the ground, the Pledge of Allegiance, etc. If this article upsets you then you can think of this as an article for non-Americans about American nationalism. It's been six months since you put your neutrality notice up there and you have had almost no support. Probably because your argument is basically "I've never heard of this so it can't exist." Denial is a river in Egypt. I'm taking the notice down. 64.228.146.87 23:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

The very existence of this article is a problem, in my view. But if we're going to have this article, it needs to include a lengthy discussion of patriotism. (Indeed, the article on patriotism should be merged into this one, or vice versa.) I think the best solution, though, is to eliminate this article altogether. --Cultural Freedom talk 2006-06-24 10:25 (UTC)


[edit] Patriotism vs Nationalism

A well-researched well-written article on American Nationalism, in which the author argues that Nationalism and Patriotism are essentially the same thing, can be found in the Foreign Policy journal(register for free to view). The author goes on to outline what he considers to be the central tenets and paradoxes within nationalism in the United States. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Clare od (talk • contribs) 13:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC). Clare od 13:54, 3 December 2006 (UTC)Clare

  • A single article, no matter how "well researched" (that is subjective), is not sufficient to change the definitions of the words. A review of multiple definitions from multiple sources clearly indicates that nationalism and patriotism are not used as identical terms. (Presumably, a "well researched" article would at least use a dictionary)

{http://www.Dictionary.com} gives 7 descriptions of nationalism:

1. national spirit or aspirations.
2. devotion and loyalty to one's own nation; patriotism.
3. excessive patriotism; chauvinism.
4. the desire for national advancement or independence.
5. the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations.
6. an idiom or trait peculiar to a nation.
7. a movement, as in the arts, based upon the folk idioms, history, aspirations, etc., of a nation.

The same source, however, gives just one definition for patriotism:

  • devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty.

Although some of the definitions might allow for similar usage, clearly, nationalism also denotes more. Note the "excessive patriotism, chauvinism" definition or definition #5 which seems to indicate taking the interests of one's own nation above all others. To use an anology, the love of my children does not necessarilly imply distain for other children. It would seem necessary to have two different words for these positions.

Discussing nationalism in America is certainly a legitimate topic. But to redirect it from patriotism and claiming they are actually identical terms seems to deny the use of the terms in English. One can be patriotic without be nationalistic and, perhaps, even the other way around. These must be two different topics.74.93.87.210 14:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Nation-state" status

Sure, the US is universally considered a "nation-state" in the commonly-used sense of "modern highly-organized state in the international system", but it's very unusual to consider the country a nation-state in the classical European sense; i.e. a state strongly identified with a particular ethnic group.--Pharos 09:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

no, the USA is certainly not a nation-state; it is about as multi-ethnic and multi-cultural as they come. dab (𒁳) 11:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources and POV

This article has an astounding lack of sources and references. It also has a POV problem and doesn't separate established fact from theory and opinion. It is just original research. "Words such as "freedom" and "homeland" became commonplace in everyday conversation" , oh brother. Contralya (talk) 10:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Seconded. I think that if this article isn't drastically overhauled, it should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.26.66.185 (talk) 07:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I also agree. Radical overhaul or delete it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.91.26.13 (talk) 23:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)