Talk:National sport

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[edit] Citation Project

Citation is needed for the national or most popular sports of each country. So if you have a reliable source about the national or most popular sports of you country or any other country please add it. It would be greatly appreciated.

There would be no point of deleting the whole research, as it would take a huge amount of time for someone to find a source for each country. So if a person finds the source for his/her country would it make things easier. Eventually every country will have a source that proves the "claim" for the national/popular sport.

To put in a citation, remove the [citation needed] and replace it with Embedded footnotes.

To-do list for National sport: edit · history · watch · refresh

Add citations for every country.

Countries that needs citations:

[edit] Meaning of the word "country"

User:Huaiwei has spread enforcing his point of view to this article, that country = sovereign state and the word "national" is exclusive for sovereign states, by changing the way Hong Kong is presented [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. The following previous debates may also be relevant here: [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]. — Instantnood 17:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

While terms like Country and Nation in their most technical and academic usage may not neccesarily be reserved for sovereign states, it is not without any need for clarification that the majority of users of the English language associate them with that usage. Indeed, that we do have some exceptions, such as the Constituent Countries of the United Kingdom, has resulted in the need for clarifications and sometimes even disputes in wikipedia. While this page lists England, Scotland and Wales seperately, doing the same thing in List of official languages by state has resulted in disputes [11] (see edits in early September). Others pages such as National dish lists them under the United Kingdom heading.
If we may refer to the wikipedia article Country, it includes (which I had to restore after User:Mais oui!, someone who insists that Wales be listed seperately, removed it earlier) mention of the fact that nationalism has a part to play in how people with political POV do utilise the term to symolise greater autonomy or independence. This precisely describes what Instantnood is doing. He insists on calling Hong Kong a country and threat it as one in wikipedia, while justifying his efforts by insisting the term country can include non-sovereign states. I would think his efforts need to be scrutinised with greater care.--Huaiwei 18:07, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
In fact it has been an unwritten yet well-established convention that "countries" means sovereign states and dependent territories. The subcategories of category:categories by country and the many lists by countries (lists with names of countries as sections) all across Wikipedia already reveals. Ordinary subnational entities and lands of stateless peoples demanding separate sovereign stat

[edit] Taiwan and the Republic of China

User:SchmuckyTheCat reverted the changes that I have made to change [[Taiwan]] as [[Republic of China|Taiwan (Republic of China)]] [12] [13] [14] [15]. Are we going to exclude the areas of the Republic of China which are not part of Taiwan, e.g. Quemoy and Matsu? — Instantnood 18:22, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

  • No, Taiwan is shorthand for the entirety of Taiwan. Which, it goes without saying but I will anyways, you know very well. SchmuckyTheCat 19:22, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
    Well yes.. but this usage as a shorthand is not considered a neutral point of view, and has been rejected to be used on Wikipedia (as User:Jiang has illustrated). Wikipedia:naming conventions (categories), which is recently formulated and made official, has directed that the categories for the country should be titled "..of Republic of China". — Instantnood 20:27, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
    And as I have stated, A blanket ban on the term Taiwan meaning the entire bunch of territory is not NPOV whatsoever. That's what the rest of the world does. That single sentence of the so-called NPOV of Naming Conventions (Chinese) violates NPOV itself as well as the naming conflict policy. It's also blatantly inconsistent as the NPOV section of NC:Chinese is so lazy that the same paragraph refers to Taiwan in the entirety sense as well. Sometimes you just have to use common sense instead. SchmuckyTheCat 21:49, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
    This is an encyclopædia, which has to be accurate and objective. It's always right to say that Taiwan, the Pescadores, Quemoy, Matsu, Wuchiu, Taiping, Pratas, etc. comprises the present territory of effective control of the ROC. Quemoy, Matsu, etc. are not part of Taiwan, except the disputed usage of Taiwan is used. In fact there are good reasons to distinguish "Taiwan" with the ROC (well, ROC-administered territories to be accurate). The scope of history of Taiwan, Taiwanese cuisine and culture of Taiwan would be much clearer, that the Fukien and South China Sea islands of the ROC are not included. — Instantnood 23:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
    No, it's goal is to be descriptive. A blanket ban on using the word is prescriptive and just plain contrary to the way the rest of the world uses it. Remember, disputes about a word are subjective criteria. Describe the controversy over the word on the page about the word. But a plain ban against using the word? No. SchmuckyTheCat 02:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
    What I had done is to link it to the country article of Republic of China, instead of Taiwan which is on the island. The display text is changed from Taiwan into Taiwan (Republic of China). The governing body is called Chinese Taipei Baseball Association in English, and 中華民國棒球協會 in Chinese (see Chinese Taipei to see the background of this term). — Instantnood 09:39, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Australia

This just isn't Cricket

Rugby league isn't the national sport, Just because someone linked the 2007 TV ratings does not make it a national sport.,By this rational Tennis should be Our National sport as well because the Australian Open final came in 2nd in the ratings .OR in 2003 ratings, the Rugby World cup final was the highest rated show... Rugby Union isn't the national sport either. Really RATINGS have nothing to do with it. In American the SUPERBOWL is the highest rating Show BUT NFL ISN'T the National Sport of the USA. Baseball is,it's the nations national pastime, because it sums up the ethos/folklaw/history and the future of the USA. It unites ALL. So for Australia You MUST add up Other factors such as, History( DON Bradman is the nations most famous athlete/the under arm bowl against NZ/ to world series cricket in the 80's/ to Andrew Symonds racial abuse ...CRICKET defines our nation. ) national Identity, a sport which all Australians embrace. Rugby league doesn't even have a professional side playing in Western Australian, South Australia, the NT or Tasmania, thats alot of states. Even, Rugby Union, Soccer and AFL have more professional sides nationwide then Rugby LEAGUE.....But I wouldn't call any of them the national sport either. The only True National Sport which all states play, and watch on a large basis is Cricket. It defines our nation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berto678 (talk • contribs) 09:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC) Could someone please provide a source for the claims that there are "official" national sports in Australia. I find this highly doubtful, so I will change the wording until a source is provided. JPD 15:15, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I wish they could use different sports for the different states. It's nearly half and half for footy and rugby league. I mean cricket is loved by all states, but it's not really as popular as either of the football codes

Exactly, so perhaps put in brackets (summer) or (winter) indicating national sports played during Winter or Summer periods. Because summer sports (ie, cricket) are not played in winter and winter sports (ie, footy and rugby) are not played during summer. Generally because local players play cricket during summer and footy or rugby during winter. Marco 03:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Australian rules football is at least equal to cricket as Australia's national sport. Look at the metrics from 2004 ...

Australian rules football Participation - VIC: 210,297; WA: 81,122; SA: 67,194; NSW: 59,472; QLD: 57,687; TAS: 25,186; NT: 15,085; TOTAL: 516, 043 (source AFL) Australian Rules is the most popular spectator sport (source http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/e298cee24565c911ca256def007248ff?OpenDocument) Paid Attendance - AFL Premiership: 6,283,788 NAB Cup: 307,181 Other: TOTAL: 6,907,798 (source AFL) Television - 3.3 million #1 program sports category - AFL Grand Final, top 5 program (source OZTAM) Professional Teams - one in every state except Tasmania (Tasmanian Devils Football Club are in Victorian Football League). AFL clubs play rostered home games in every state and territory, attracting crowds in excess of 10,000 per match. Club competition - ever state and territory for almost 100 years. Representative - currently only at junior levels. Has had a history of senior interstate representative matches, professional representation ceased in 1990s.


Cricket VIC: 161,874; NSW: 148,074; QLD: 63,829; SA: 37,611; WA: 37,428; ACT: 5884; NT: 3000 TOTAL: 478,326 (source Cricket Australia) Paid Attendance - Tri-series 262,627 TOTAL: 942,000 (source ABS) Television - not in top 10 programs Professional Teams - one in every state Club competition - ever state and territory for almost 100 years. Representative - regular senior representation at state and international level.

Plus, Australian rules football is growing more rapidly than cricket in Australia, especially in two of the top three most populous states. Tennis also stakes a good claim, with attendances that are similar to cricket. Soccer is strong at junior level, and rugby league/union are strong at senior level, but none even hold a candle to Australian rules at senior level.

Unfortunately for "Aussie Rules", a vocal minority of rugby and soccer supporters tend to regularly dispute the sport's claim to being truly national. --Spewmaster 00:10, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The Australia Buerau of Statistics did research into this in 2004 and concluded that football is our true national sport: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/13/.html - It is by far our most played sport and our only football code that is popular in all states.

This is a stupid argument - there is no conclusive argument to say that any sport is the national sport of Australia - the 'reference' from the bbc that says that Cricket is our national sport is not reliable at all and in reality there is no official national sport. I think it needs to be explained that Australia supports a wide variety of sports, often different in different areas, and many sports have claims to being the 'national' sport - some sports are more watched, some are more universally understood, some are played more - you can't definitavely say that any given sport is our national sport.

Australian sport is really complicated. Article doesn't do it any justice. Also, I've added netball which I believe has the highest participation rate of ANY team sport in the country. It's the universal team sport for women and not something to be ignored. However, participation doesn't neccessarily convey level of historical and cultural significance nor popularity professionally. Quantiative measures don't really work. Schools may field countless football/soccer teams but the first XV rugby title maybe more cherished. Htra0497 03:35, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
It would be completely incorrect to say conclusively that any sport is clearly Australia's national sport - Cricket may be generally considered the national sport, but that is not official - and that is only because it is traditional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.168.108.56 (talk) 01:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It's soccer, NOT football. You got it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.130.25 (talk) 21:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scope of article

If the article truly is about "National pastime", then it should not include a list of the 3,5 or 9 most popular sports in a particular country. Only those with some claim to be the "national pastime" should be included. This may be based on participation, media coverage, government funding, cultural associations, official designation; different sports may qualify under different criteria. But a sport which in some country comes second in all these criteria but first in none of them can in no sense be considered a "National pastime" and should not be listed, unless the name of the article is changed. (Possibly any sport in which a country is the world-leading exponent, or which was invented there, might be included; but I think a separate page would better provide such information.) Joestynes 15:36, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I have to agree with the above concerns, although naturally, we are left wondering just what constitutes a "national pastime". Are there definitive third party texts on this to rely on, before this article again reads like a work of original assumptions?--Huaiwei 12:44, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
I believe there are few countries that have a officially declared national sport and a sport that has a major appeal with the population (which may not be officially recognised). I suggest that the topic of the article to be considered as the 'officially declared national sport' for whatever the countries that have an officially declared national sport.--Kulendra 05:12, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move request

I was expecting this to be about the role of baseball in American culture. In order realise what this article is about without opening it you have to know about the American usage of the term (otherwise the national pastimes involved could be reading, sex or drinking coffee etc etc etc). If it is renamed "National sport" it will only be necessary to understand the meaning of those two common English words. Perhaps there should be a "National pastime" article, devoted to baseball, as well, linked through a disambiguation page, but this is not that article.

Makes sense. —Nightstallion (?) 11:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User:Huaiwei sux

User:Huaiwei Sux because of his really long topic of nothingness. Dude, give it up. You are a loser. A LOSER!

  User: Dark Knight

--216.63.217.206 18:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] constructive critisisum

I dont like this article because Lacrosse should be licted as one of Americas national sports not just its growimg in popularity

Whoever wrote that is a queer —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 162.84.51.108 (talk • contribs) 00:48, 23 May 2006.

[edit] Cricket and Ireland

Is cricket really that popular in Ireland to warrent mention. I would imagine Golf or Tennis would have far more players in Ireland than Cricket. --Richy 01:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

In the intro to this page, it is claimed that sumo wrestling is the national sport of Japan, yet the map lists baseball as the national sport. And actually, the map says it lists the most popular sports and if that is the case than the map is incorrect; baseball is second in popularity to American football.

more contrdictions: Belgium Estonia...

Beligum has Soccer as most popular sport, NOT cycling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.191.210.2 (talk) 14:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Auto racing and USA

The article states that "American football and Stock car racing may also lay legitimate claim to being the country's most popular sport." What "legitimate" claim might stock car racing also have? American football has consistently outpolled baseball by a 2-to-1 margin since the 1980s and is approaching a 3-to-1 margin in recent years. (see [16] for Harris Poll statistics giving 33% for pro football + an ADDITIONAL 13% for college football vs. 14% for baseball and 11% for NASCAR)

Stock car racing's only claim to "most popular" seems to be that NASCAR has some events that draw 300,000. American football on the other hand has several games going on at the same time which, at the major college and pro levels (not even considering high school or small college levels), many of which draw between 70,000 and 100,000+. Aggregated, these would dwarf NASCAR's single event for a single weekend.

Berserkr731 07:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National sport for each country

Is this section really neccessary? If yes, then it needs serious work and not just in terms of layout. It fails to distinguish between what is considered a national sport and what is nationally popular.

PS: Should we rename "football" as "soccer" or "association football"? This is the English wikipedia and the majority of native English speakers do not use "football" for Association football. (Too much of a hassle?)- Htra0497 28 August :15 (AET)

Regarding the postscript, please see these debates -- Alias Flood 03:28, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Ive updated the layout as it was a bit of a mess. I also updated the population figures that were there because they were incorrect. In terms of assigning a country to a sport, I used what was already in use on this page. --Horatiohornblower 11:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

China is down for both Basketball and Table Tennis, no other country is mentioned twice! I realise that many countries have several major sports, and therefore this list is flawed (Though I am in favour of keeping it). But if we let countries have multiple entries on this section it would lead to chaos with people leveraging for their favourite sport to get a bigger population count. So someone with more knowledge of China than me, which is it? Basketball, table tennis or football. If we can't agree then maybe the 'official' national sport (if there is one) should go in. --User:Shane 1 11:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

By the way I am not sure but I have heard that Englands nstional sport is cricket even though foot ball is more popular.

[edit] National sport for each country, Those under a million

I presume for ease of compilation only countries over a million are listed. Any reason why we can't also list the smaller countries now? Sure it might take a while, but what wikipedia article isn't a work in progress? To stop the list getting too lengthy I would support only listing independant countries not dependancies though. I will admit to a slight bias, I like Rugby and several of the countries where it is a national sport are small islands that are under the 1 million level. It seems unfair to miss them out when some of the countries listed here are not even fully independant. 27 September 2006 Causing chaos? The United States sport should be baseball, as baseball has a much longer history than American football, and baseball is intrinsically connected to U.S. culture. Also, baseball is coloquially referred to by nearly all Americans as the "national pastime" --72.81.139.53 (talk) 16:05, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lacrosse

It is agreed that Lacrosse isn't as popular as ice hockey in Canada so it should be on the list "Countries By National Sport". Because if you repeat countries then alot of sports would have countries that are in two lists. example New Zealand would be on cricket and rugby union and Zimbabwe would be on soccer and cricket and things keep getting complicated so lacrosse shouldn't be on there Thugchildz 21:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australia, again

Cricket is the most dominant national sport of Australia as far as being popular in all areas goes. Australia rules football and rugby league are popular in the southern and northern states respectively, but they don't have the overall nation-wide support that cricket has. -- Chuq 03:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually I think netball is the most popular sport played in Australia, followed by footy, soccer, rugby, cricket, etc. There was a survey done on this at some point this year with this order. In terms of money footy comes on top, then rugby, cricket, etc. Cricket is the dominate summer sport (approx. for 5 months), whilst footy and rugby are dominate winter sports (approx. 7 months). -- Marco 04:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
It is either cricket, soccer or netball. Footy is more popular than rules in the northern states but less popular in Victoria and others, so it would be a bit hard to say footy. If we are not talking national, or it is allowable to divide states, than it would be football in NSW & QLD and rules in Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia and Tasmania. Hope that helps. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.10.116.71 (talk) 03:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

Well it has to go by what is popular in most of the states which is agreed is cricket but as different codes of football is also popular in different states it is mentioned up thereThugchildz

Aussie rules is australias national game in winter. It was created in Australia for Australians, and has over 150 years of immense support. It is linked into our culture permanetly. Rugby of both codes barely mentions in states/territorys other than NSW and QLD. Soccer is only new on the scene, and is only slightly popular in small areas of Australia. They only recently got a national league, 20 years after AFL established the first truly national one in Australia. Soccer has long been despised in Australia ("wogball") and a couple of years of success does not mean it is a national sport. 59.100.127.74 04:47, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

On the map, Table Tennis is listed as China's most popular sport, but on the tables at the bottom, football is China's most popular sport. What's up with that. м info 21:51, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

mistake fixing it now.Thugchildz

[edit] West Indies

The national sport of West Indies is Cricket,not football.But why West Indies is green? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.229.42.185 (talk) 13:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Well, The West Indies are made up of at least half a dozen independant states. At the moment some are green and some are yellow. (remember Guyana in mainland South America counts as the 'West Indies' when it comes to Cricket) Given that football is very popular in the Windies as well that seems fair. Shane1

yeah but its not as popular as cricket there but if anyone wants to update the picture they can.--Thugchildz 01:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maldives

The map needs to show that the Maldives' national sport is soccer. 66.72.198.255 21:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Australia, again, take 2

Anyone in Australia would know that This edit is clearly not correct! However it is cited with a statistic, which the previous one wasn't. What to do? -- Chuq 06:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not a reliable one and its not up to date. Clearly soccer isn't the most popular sport in Australia.--Thugchildz 07:55, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I would say that it IS reliable - it comes from the ABS - and about being out of date, I am sure more up to date figures would only be further in football (soccer)'s favour. The issue is that "national sport" means something different in that news article than what this article means - participation vs media coverage. -- Chuq 08:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Participation doesn't really reflect truly on what is the more popular sport because it doesn't represent the population who doesn't play sports but still is a sports fan. There's three or four other codes of football there in the winter, so i doubt the soccer is the most popular and then it being more popular than the only summer sport-cricket.--Thugchildz 08:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I know, I'm not saying that it is; I'm saying that this page doesn't clearly define what it means by "national sport", and that, although most Australians will either be a "Cricket and Aussie rules" or a "Cricket and rugby league" person, there isn't any statistical data that can quantify that. You could go by TV ratings, which would probably give you Australian rules, but that is further complicated in that there are many parts of the country where rugby league is significantly more popular. I would suggest cricket - as this page used to read - because it is popular nationwide and is not focused in any one part of the nation - but if we are to remove a valid source for football (soccer), then we need an equally good one to back up cricket. -- Chuq 09:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not saying we should remove the soccer one, we should add a line at the bottom that says something like, "Although out of all the codes soccer has the most participation."--Thugchildz 16:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
That's a good idea. The sporting situation in Australia can't be summed up by a single colour on a map for the whole country!
As an aside I have done a couple of mockups at right. See what you think. Not supposed to be serious contributions, just indicative of the situation. -- Chuq 03:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Isn't soccer a winter sport though? Also, having mixed colors would make this very difficult because a lot of the nations would have mixed colors which would make this picture some what unreadable.--03:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
The major national competition is played in summer in Australia, although state leagues are in winter. I agree about the mixed colours - I'm not suggesting them for the whole map, this was just for these 'mock-up' pics. However if the winter/summer split is common among most countries, two separate world maps may be feasible. (On second thoughts it would make more sense for Australia to be completely red for the summer one.) -- Chuq 03:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Well the situations kind of like usa's one but a bit different. Baseball's USA's national sport/past time but a lot of regard (american) football as it's national sport; where as in australia cricket remains the summer sport while there's contest between the football codes. Here's a source[[17]] that i found right of the back without even looking as for cricket being "national pastime" in australia but don't know about reliability. But the thing for two different maps are that we have to 1st find sources for all the countries then make the maps. So if we can find a source one by one then we could do that--Thugchildz 04:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lier

This article is totally lier!!!! LEO

Prove it. --necronudist 13:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
To the anon - you haven't given reasons for your (many unrelated) changes, many of which are wrong. Yes, many of the facts currently in the article are unsourced now, but I think if any are to be changed it would be preferable to replace them with a sourced statement. -- Chuq 13:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

This article is totally propaganda for soccer and I will put tag POV! I am Italian and I know very well-calciofili-in Italian language aka-fans of soccer-! National sport of England is cricket not soccer, national sport of Australia is Australian football not cricket, national sport of Indonesia is badminton not soccer, national sport of half in soccer's list counries is basketball not soccer! In north and central Europe are popular ice hockey and skiing not soccer! Soccer is national sport in few countries: Scotland, Germany, Portugal, Poland, Croatia, Romania, Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Uruguay. Italian national sports are pallone, tamburello and bocce not soccer! Warning: it is totally difference between-national sport-and-popular sport-in fact in Italy the sport most popular probably is car motor-racing and FORMULA 1 for FERRARI and TORO ROSSO not soccer! LEO

Obviously you know absolutely nothing about Italian sport. All you need to do is pick up a copy of a sport daily newspaper (Gazzetta dello Sport, Tuttosport, Stadio, etc.) to figure out that calcio/football/soccer dominates the Italian sport scene. Normally the first two thirds of each newspaper is dedicated to football/soccer with the rest divided among other sports. 209.247.23.93 (talk) 05:42, 10 April 2008 (UTC) california viola

I know very well that national sport of australia isn't soccer but cricket but I do not know about the rest but if you can provide reliable sources than go ahead change them but right now you are acting like a troll--ThugChildz 10:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I am sure: the most popular sport in the world is basketball not soccer! LEO

Your behavior really is looking like a troll just wanting attention, no offense, but anyone that lived in this world will know that soccer is the most undisputed popular sport.--ThugChildz 10:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

We have different sources but I advise you and not want discuss! LEO

I'm Italian too, and if you read the criteria on this page, you'll se that Italian national sport (for this article) is football. However, I also think that some national sports are debatable. --necronudist 11:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Countries with an officially declared national sport.

There are some countries which do have an officially declared national sport which may be different to the most popular sport. (Sri Lanka is an example, the officially declared national sport is Volleyball, however it is generally accepted that Cricket is more popular).

For countries like this, I suggest that the officially stated national sport to be included in this page with perhaps a comment referring to other popular sports.

P:S: I edited Sri Lankas national sport a while ago to volleyball to see that it has been re-edited to "Cricket is the most popular, while Volleyball is the national sport." I will be adding a 'citation needed' tag to the 'cricket is most popular' part. And also since there is a officially declared sport, I will be removing Sri Lanka from being listed under Cricket in teh section 'Countries by national sport'.--Kulendra 05:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I saw that THugsChildz has been able to find a citation for the popularity claim. I have left it as it is. However the country was removed from being listed under Cricket.
Message to Thugschildz

Can you please let know what was your motive behind grouping Sri Lanka under CRicket as the national sport? As you can clearly see, Sri Lanka has a officially declared national sport and it is not cricket.--Kulendra 18:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Because, Officially declared national sports doesn't really in most case now represent what the people in a nation think as a national sport. As an example, the national sport of England is Cricket, while popular there, it is not the most popular and Soccer is the most popular and as such England is under soccer. Another example is America, baseball is the official "national" but doesn't really represent the reality anymore and American football is the national sport right now even though it's not officially declared. For most cases, the declared national sports became out of date and aren't really updated or represent what is, and so go by the reality of what sport does the nation see as a national sport.--THUGCHILDz 22:49, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Regardless of what people think, the country has a officially declared national sport. Whether it is updated, outdated or impractical is upto the constitutional bodies of each country to decide. Im moving Sri Lanka back under volleyball.--Kulendra 01:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
No, as I said before, and it's sourced as well and it's just not what people thinks, it's the undisputed fact that the most popular sport in Sri Lanka is cricket and if you look at the rest of the article, you'll see that official "national" sports are noted in the countries "List of current countries' national sports" which is also the case for Sri Lanka but the real one is in the "Countries By National Sport" section. It doesn't matter what a government decides but what actually is the national sport which in this case is cricket. So regardless of what the official "national" sport is, it will go by the actual one and in this case a undisputed one too. So please stop, have look at the {{welcome}} page and do productive stuff here in wikipedia. Welcome and have a nice day!--THUGCHILDz 02:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Are you suggesting that you are bigger than the government? I did have a look at the welcome page and if I remember, wikipedia is not a place for people to outlive their fantasies. Being productive does not mean you have to contribute to someone elses lie. I assume you are not suggesting that you have any authority over Sri Lankan govenrment or its consitution. What other countries are listed under is none of my concern, im not a citizen of 'other countries', I am a citizen of Sri Lanka.--Kulendra 03:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
No, government has nothing nothing to do with anything and no one said anything about me or anyone else being bigger than the government. This is a encyclopedia and has nothing to do with governments, what the government approves and what it doesn't doesn't have anything to do with the an encyclopedia or issues on Zimbabwe would all be censored and would be like what the government says. And If i remember it right wikipedia is not a place for what a government says but it's about the facts. And what are you talking about, fantasies? It isn't any fantasy but that cricket the most popular sport in Sri Lanka and it's pretty clearly is too. And what lie are you implying there? There is no lie here, it's a fact with a citation. And no none is suggesting I have any authority of the Sri Lanka government or its constitution but that doesn't have anything to do with anything here. Also, being a citizen of Sri Lanka doesn't have anything to do with it either. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not something that goes by what governments says. You need to take a break and enjoy the day. :) --THUGCHILDz 03:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for accepting the fact that an encyclopedia is a place for fatcs and not about opinions.--Kulendra 04:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
No one ever said it's about opinions and I am not accepting anything right now about "an encyclopedia is a place for facts" because using my common sense I knew that for a long time now. Anyways opinions have nothing to do with this here, it's a fact that the official(by the government) national sport is volleyball which is already covered in the article but it is also a fact that cricket is the most popular/national sport in Sri Lanka. There's no opinions involved in that. So please revert it back and take some time to get familiarized with the rules. Good day.--THUGCHILDz 04:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
What you are doing is mis-represnting a country. Sri Lanka does not recognise Cricket as a national sport. Which part of it do you dont understand? And I dont agree with using your common sense. A fact is a fact. Common sense may be common to you but not for others. And right now you have got the facts plain wrong. Like I said it is a fact that Sri Lanka has a officially declared National Sport and its Volleyball. And for all factual data thats what that matters. I think you have a problem understanding official standings and emotions. I suggest you have a look at the term 'facts'--Kulendra 06:52, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Kulendra, if this is correct then you shouldn't have any problem at all finding a citation for it - if you include a valid citation you will have pretty much zero chance of your change being reverted. -- Chuq (talk) 12:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I have presented the citations (in fact I presented two separate citations for this; the popularity claim for cricket and volleyball being the national sport.) However the citations were removed by THUGCHILDz in the main article. Even the current citation for Sri Lanka clrearly states that Volleyball is the national sport of Sri Lanka. However let me present the links for the benefit of the discussion
Sri Lanka Volleyball Federation - The official body for control and welfare of volleyball in Sri Lanka
Sri Lanka - Wikipedia article about Sri Lanka. Also note under Trivia section
DSI Sponsors Volleyball - A news item on a volleyball tournament. Please note first sentence.
Cricinfo - An article (ironically) on Sri Lankan cricket. Note 3rd paragraph, the official status of volleyball as the national sport is accepted.
Lankanewspapers - An article on volleyball. Note first paragraph.
Daily News - An article on a volleyball player in SL. Note second paragraph.
Lanka Info
Please note that all above articles accept that Sri Lankas national sport is volleyball. Im really surprised why the first citation for an official claim was removed and then being forced to cricket.--Kulendra 14:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually you're wrong saying I am misinterpreting a country. Sri Lankan government recognizes volleyball as a "national" sport and no one ever said it's not. And You don't have to agree with my common sense, it really doesn't matter. And everyone knows a fact is a fact and the fact is the most popular sport in Sri Lanka is cricket and that's a simple fact. And you know what else is a fact? That Sri Lankan government declared volleyball as the national sport and guess what? That is noted in the article if you take a second to read it. And I don't think you have to tell me what a fact is, I know what the term means, and as I said above both of them are facts. And FYI, I removed the citation you presented because it was redundant, as the citation I presented works for both of the facts, so no need for two when one works for both. So you just need to chill out for a while because both of the facts are noted but we are going by the most popular sport(the reality) over the official(given by the government one) in the second section and that is what you are having hard time getting. I'll give you another example, the congress declared baseball the national pastime here but now (American) football is the national sport for us even though it isn't made official, it is the most popular sport and is the national sport now.--THUGCHILDz 23:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Please note the first response you have made to my query on this thread(talk-page-subtopic). You have said that the 'what is declared does not mean anything'. Clearly this is a personal call. It may not be important to you but to countries which have a declared sport, it is important. It is a part of official national identity. Let me draw another example, Sri Lanka also has a declared national tree, Na. However you may not spot the tree in day to day life that frequently. That does not mean you can decide that Sri Lanka's national tree is coconut tree, a tree which is more common in SL. It is not a single individuals call. What you have done here is you have made your own call on what should be Sri Lankas national sport. So Im reverting the article back to include Sri Lanka under volleyball. If you do not have any source that Cricket is Sri Lanka's national sport, please dont revert it back. Thanks.--Kulendra 01:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
User:Kulendra are you on a mission? User:THUGCHILDz is right, look at the rest of the article. He isn't making his own call; the thing is sourced. The source says cricket is the most popular sport so what are you arguing about? You are being disruptive.Superplaya 02:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I have no objection that cricket is apopular sport in Sri Lanka. However it is a factual error to list Sri Lanka under Cricket as the 'National Sport'. For this I have provided the necessary citations. So like I said if you do not have any citations that cricket is the national sport of Sri Lanka, dont list Sri Lanka under it. I hope you understand the point.--Kulendra 03:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with what I have said above in this discussions because what is declared doesn't necessarily be the truth, I can declare my as the president of the United States, but that isn't important. The example you drew really isn't a good one because do more people see/feel the coconut tree as the national tree than they do about Na? If so then yes if not then no. Exactly it's not a single individual or a individual group's(the governments) call. It's about what most of the people feel. And cricket is just a popular sport in Sri Lanka, it is the most popular sport in Sri Lanka which is basically what the article is talking about and what a national sport is.--THUGCHILDz 03:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

So you have gone to define what is a official declaration of a country is. On the comment you made 'I can declare my as the president of the United States', I believe you have no authority to declare your self as the president. However a government can declare what an identity of a nation is. If the people feel otherwise they can take the necessary legal action within the country and make necessary changes. Clearly you are running by your personal interpretation of what an official declaration is. So I suggest that you start working on pure facts. On your idea about what a national sport is, this article specifically states that 'In some countries, sport or game can become the official national pastime by mandate of the government, such as with Canada and lacrosse in 1995'. I cant understand how you fail to see this, but this is the situation regarding Sri Lanka.--Kulendra 04:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
No, I have not defined anything, and you keep taking things I say out of proportion. What I was saying there was that just because there's a declaration doesn't mean that it always means something. So please stop taking things I say out of proportion. And Also there is no requirement for me to work with "pure" facts otherwise a lot of writings on here wouldn't be here but what is require a npov backed up with sources both of which is given. And if you are going by this article which you are not, than read please read it again. It says A national sport is a sport or game that is considered to be a popularly intrinsic part of the culture or is the most popular sport of a country or nation. and This article generally goes by the popularity of the sports in all the countries. So it isn't that hard but I guess it takes time for some which is ok.--THUGCHILDz 04:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
IMHO without assuming good faith, I would have said User:Kulendra is a mission or is just too hard headed. No offense intended. From my point of view User:THUGCHILDz is right and the rest of the article is done the same way. Why is the article protected? Superplaya 04:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I have protected the main article due to edit warring. I have also put your dispute in Wikipedia:Third opinion. Please continue to positively discuss before a neutral third opinion comes. bibliomaniac15 04:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm surprised this has gone this far to be a edit war but looking at the history it seems only Kulendra who has been reverting a lot; since Kulendra is new it takes little bit of time to get used to which is fine, although it may have been overboard.--THUGCHILDz 05:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Whether Im new or not is quite obviously not the point :) The dispute is over a factual representation and usage of a term. So please stick to it.--Kulendra 05:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Well I was commenting on the edit war because I didn't notice it went this far and I already explained why it is the way it is above. Kind regards.--THUGCHILDz 06:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third Opinion

As far as I understand it, the disagreement is over whether the most popular sport qualifies as the "national sport". The fact that cricket is more popular than volleyball, and the fact that volleyball is the official sport of the nation are not disputed as far as I can tell. The way I see it, the article states at the very beginning that "This article generally goes by the popularity of the sports in all the countries." So it would seem by the article's own standards that Sri Lanka should be listed underneath cricket, just as America is listed under American Football. However, this perhaps may not be the best way to set up the page. I can envision future debates about several other nations, including Japan, America, etc., about official versus popular sports. So my suggestion is that you include countries under the sport name if that sport is popular OR if that sport is the official national sport, with another column in the table or some other indication of whether it is that country's most popular sport or that country's national sport. In addition, I can envision future debates about whether a sport is the most popular or not; unfortunately I can't think of a solution besides insisting that all such assertions be backed up by citations to up-to-date reliable material. Illuminatedwax 08:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

That's exactly what I'm trying to do, provide a citation for all the countries. And as for Japan and America about official vs popularity, well the citations will cover it and not all countries have official national sports so not necessary just for some of the countries and plus the most popular sport is the national sport as it says in the article, A national sport is a sport or game that is considered to be a popularly intrinsic part of the culture or is the most popular sport of a country or nation. Also, note that the officially declared sports are noted in the first section anyway.--THUGCHILDz 23:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I do think though that having a section where countries are listed by sport means that if a country isn't listed under a sport that is closely identified with that nation, people will be confused, think the page is inaccurate, or at worst be offended. For example, I can see a baseball fan coming along and insisting that the United States be included under baseball as well. So I think that including both official and popular national sports in that table would be the best way to go in the future. In addition, I think it enhances the article by giving a better picture of the world of sports, it fits the description of the article better ("considered to be a popularly intrinsic part of the culture" means official sports as well) and it's a better way of not only ending this debate but never having it again. Illuminatedwax 00:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll add a note in the countries listed under sports that it's the most popular sport that is listed and to look at the section above for more information, which covers the whole thing for the most part while the second section covers the most popular sport. So I'll add a note there which should be enough as the first section pretty much covers it all.--THUGCHILDz 00:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems the proposed solution by Illuminatedwax seems good enough. One way I see this happenning is by adding a footnote at teh end of the table/listing specifying that for the countries that are tagged with the footnote, national sport is something different. Also note that there are quite a few countries with an official national sport that is different to the popular sport. I dont have a citation for this right now but I think all countries of SAF have an officially declared national sport. Anyway its good that this discussion came to this point, I think we have a quite an acceptable solution. Thanks THUGCHILDz and Illuminatedwax.--Kulendra 10:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Redundant really, since it is explained a lot better in the section above, so what I'm going to do is break the first section up by alphabetization so it will be easier for the readers to look up information about a certain country without having to scroll too much and than I'll change the second section into Countries by Most popular sport while the first section should be Countries' national sports.--THUGCHILDz 00:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Agree-able. I dont see any issues if the second section is named 'Countries by popular sport' --Kulendra 01:17, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Good, nice talking to you Kulendra.--THUGCHILDz 01:28, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Licenced people by sport would be more accurate

I don't understand the last tables with additions of populations : there's no 60 millions of brits plus 60 millions of frenchies plus 60 millions of italians (and so on) who prefer soccer rather than others sports, as long as I know ! Some people don't like sport, others prefer rugby, or women's beach volley (haha...)... takes-it-all formula ? if my two neighbours love football i will do the same ? let me laugh...

Because there's no poll about that, or it would be too difficult to put them for a wikipedian, another number is more accurate than all the others : the number of licenced players by country. Of course the total won't reach 6 billions (totally idiot, it includes children and dying persons), but it will be really more accurate. The problem will be, of course, to find these sources. I'm sure they are easy to find for the western world, but it will surely be harder for Africa or Asia.... 82.240.207.81 12:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Totally agree --necronudist 12:17, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I think the population numbers were just added (i.e. for no particular reason) and Im not sure if its possible to find licensed people per sport. (How would you define licensing?). I think we can safely take away the column that says population.--124.43.222.163 13:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
The population is fine, it doesn't mean that all the people in the country likes that certain sport, no, but it tells the reader, out of this many people this sport is the most popular. Going with how many plays a certain sport, which would be extremly hard for a lot of countries and sports, isn't that accurate because the number of people that plays it doesn't always reflect the reality of the situation for how popular it is in a certain country.--THUGCHILDz 23:35, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with thugchildz here - the article is called national sport, so a reference to the nation is important.. -- Chuq (talk) 04:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Population doesn't reflect anything, it's useless 'cause we all know that popularity isn't equal to population of a nation. I think the number of licensed players would be more accurate and usefull. And if we can't determine it, well, it isn't strictly necessary to write something at the bottom of the page... --necronudist 06:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Number of licensed/registered players would be more accurate, if the article was Most popular sport by participation by nation, but it is National sport. -- Chuq (talk) 08:29, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
So what's the importance of the population? The article is National sport so list the nations and respective national sports and stop. If you wanna write down some numbers, population is the worst. --necronudist 09:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
My point is the number of registered players aren't really important - football (soccer) has the highest number of registered players in Australia, but if you tried to list that as Australia'a national sport you'd run into all sorts of trouble. This article is about national sports which means - as Thugchildz said, that out of this many people this sport is the most popular. No, it doesn't mean that "this many" people like "this sport" and nowhere does it try to claim this. -- Chuq (talk) 13:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I understand, but I'm sayin' mainly that isn't stricly necessary to write down those numbers. They don't add anything to the focus of the article, so they can be omitted. --necronudist 13:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
They do actually because when you read it you get a idea that out this many people, this is the most popular, which is kind of important because American Football being the most popular sport in the USA of 300,322,784 people, one will know that American football in USA is popular to more people than Australian rules football in Nauru of 25,000. There's no need for it to go, doesn't do any harm but adds something more.--THUGCHILDz 22:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I would strongly disagree with participation numbers being included. Firstly, sports authorities may exaggerate numbers for the P.R. or funding purposes. Secondly, certain sports are far more likely to encourage players to register than others. e.g. in American football or Rugby players will register for insurance purposes, whereas the huge majority of football or basketball players would not bother. Shane1 27 May 2007

I think that it would be a bad idea to have licence numbers on the list since i.e. in Sweden the most played sport is Floorball, alltough it seldom draws over 1,000 spectators on elite matches. JH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.225.44.67 (talk) 18:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Australia

{{editprotected}} Change to: Australia - The national sport is cricket. [1] [2]

I request a removal of the winter sports. Cricket is the widely accepted national sport. The winter football codes (rugby league/rugby union/aussie rules) are completely regional sports which is why a listing like this article can be so contentious. Bongomanrae 07:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I've disabled the editprotected request. There should be at least a little consensus for a change like this to a fully-protected article, and, from looking at this page, there have been previous disputes about Australia. Cheers. --MZMcBride 23:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
It already says cricket is the national sport, while the football codes are just explained. So it's fine right now but may be could do better with copyediting.--THUGCHILDz 00:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I just don't see the point in going into detail about sports that aren't regarded as national sports in this particular article. Not to mention that the only reference used for the football codes is from a report that is widely disregarded . Bongomanrae 11:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Instead, I don't see the point in going on with this debate about a nation who hasn't got a national sport. It's not obligatory to have a sport more popular than the others... --necronudist 11:53, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
What are you trying to say? Cricket is the national sport, that's undeniable. I don't see the point of listing 4 more sports when none of them are even close to nationwide popularity of cricket. Bongomanrae 04:05, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
AFAIK every state has its popular sport... so you'll never agree with each other. --necronudist 07:07, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't even matter, there no point of arguing. It already says cricket is the national sport while it also mentions the some of the other sports.--THUGCHILDz 14:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not NPOV to say that cricket is the national sport. As for listing other sports - it better reflects the fact that when it comes to most popular sports, Australia really isn't a single nation. Then again, this whole list has a bit of a NPOV problem, because it simply asserts that national sport means most popular in terms of spectator interest. JPD (talk) 15:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Rugby League in NSW and QLD alone is bigger than cricket is Australia wide, and AFL in Victoria is bigger than cricket Australia wide. Both sports are better attended, and have far more viewers.

The fact is Australia does not have a national sport. In NSW and QLD its rugby league, AFL in Melbourne and WA, soccer in the juniors, and cricket is popular in the summer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourplay (talk • contribs) 13:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List

This is list proposed by me for most popular sport: the list proposed by me is readable here. LEO 28 May 2007

Yeah, is there any facts involved in that?--THUGCHILDz 20:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
The proposed list is entirely constituted of original research and is therefore disallowed on Wikipedia. I have removed it from the talk page, as it is very long. Anyone who wishes to see it may check the history of this talk page. -- Y not? 23:19, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I think so: original research exists for list now in article!!!! Is there any facts involved in that list now in article???? Where are statistics of spectators for basket and soccer in Nigeria and Ethiopia???? Where are statistics of spectators for ice hockey and soccer in Russia and Czech Republic???? Where are statistics of spectators for rugby union and soccer in France and England???? Where are statistics of spectators for bullfighting and soccer in Mexico and Spain???? That list now in article is absurd and ridiculous: it is valid only for soccer fanatics!!!! LEO 30 May 2007

Leo your list is bizarre, but perhaps you're just trying to make a point? That a simple winner takes all list of the most popular sport leaves many undercounted? If that is your objective I partially agree with you, but I can't see how we could do it differantly without leading to chaos.

I have sources but I don't like long discussions. All you can read versions in other languages and see many differences because sources are different! LEO

[edit] United States

The subtitle is "National Sport",not "the Most Popular Sport".So the United States should be drown yellow(baseball)! !

Baseball is the national sport given by the government, football is the one that has the consensus of the people.--THUGCHILDz 02:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

OKOK...American Football lovers always right!!!

[edit] Moving the article?

If this article is NOT about the offical national sport but about the most popular sport, changing the article's name to "List of countries by most popular sport" might be a good idea, because this is what the article is actually about. Thanks, Guy0307 12:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] (American) Football most popular sport in USA?!

Seeing this in the article really perplexed me, so I went to check the source. It strikes me as really strange that this has been allowed to be sourced as it is now. The NFL is hardly what one can call a non biased sourced. Until something more NPOV & scientific is cited I propose that the sport for the US be removed. The race between baseball and football seems highly contentious & crediting one as more popular than the other based on a league whose main goal is the promotion of one of the sports hardly seems fitting. If no one changes this or gives some highly more fair sources, I'll change it in a couple days caz | speak 04:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

It's hardly contentious. According to Gallup, football passed baseball as Americans' most popular sport in 1972, and it has also been passed by basketball. Now, it's not even close. However, I agree, two op-eds and the pro league of one of the sports in question are hardly great sources, so I went to The Gallup Poll to find some actual data as a source. Hope that solves this issue. Gentgeen 09:43, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] United Arab Emirates,USA

http://www.cp-pc.ca/english/uae/sports.html <--- This page shows that United Arab Emirates s most popular sport is football！

And so is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates

http://www.cp-pc.ca/english/usa/sports.html <--- And this page shows that USA s national sport is baseball！

[edit] Second most popular sport?

Perhaps we can tabulate/rank them? --Howard the Duck 13:46, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rugby addict? And Where's handball?

Who kept adding rugby to countries like Romania or Russia? Yeah, it's big fuzz in Romania, and they play it in Russia, but it doesn't rank right after football in neither of them. Where's handball? Was this shit made by a fuckin' Brit or American who doesn't know a shit about sports apart from NFL and TNA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.153.61.145 (talk) 23:20, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why this bias against rugby league

For instance this strange and not so neutral assertion : **England - Football (soccer) is the most popular. Cricket is the second most popular. Rugby Union is also popular, but Rugby league is only a minor sport and played to a small extent in north of England. Sroulik 23:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Edit it, it is people with a bias agenda who write that stuff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourplay (talk • contribs) 13:46, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BASEBALL!!!

WHY WOULD BASEBALL BE CANADA'S NATIONAL SPORT. WE ONLY HAVE 1 TEAM AND IT'S THE BLUE JAYS. THAT IDIOT WHO CHANGED IT IS A COMPLETE IDIOT AND PROBLY DOESN'T KNOW ANY CANADIANS. HOCKEY AND LACROSS LIKE HOW HARD IS THAT?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.68.150.208 (talk) 08:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC) You spelled lacrosse wrong idiot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.81.139.53 (talk) 16:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Totally disputed

I am from Nigeria: soccer is not popular sport in all both Africa and Asia. List in article is false very much! Lumumba, 10 november 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.84.159 (talk) 14:57, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] england...

englands DEFACTO national sport is CRICKET... which is traditionally popular... i mean no englishman doesnt NOT know it...so i think it should be under cricket...

and back to the UAE... crickets is actually the most popular sport, considering that ALL the south asians who live in the uae love it... and that they make up more than roughly 60% of the population...

and in new zealand... crickets also the DEFACTO national sport... similar situation with england...

there are some errors, because in anguilla cricket is the most popular sport... but you go by natinoal sport there, so england and new zealand should both be under cricket... and theyre also two of the elite full members of icc that play test cricket... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.21.112.18 (talk) 18:52, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exaggeration

Soccer most popular in 100 and more nations is comic exaggeration!!!! This is problem: article is total unsourced about soccer most popular!!!! Then if about Palestinian territories, Eritrea etc. we not have source, we not insert Palestinian territories, Eritrea etc. in that lier list!!!! It is impossible to find valid source of those nations because a source does not exist!!!! This is my proposal: to remove unsourced nations in list of soccer! May I edit for balanced article???? LEO, 8 December 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.87.241 (talk) 14:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It is generally accepted that there are more than 100 nations in which the national sport is Football (Soccer). Soccer is by far the most popular sport in the Palestinian Territories, Israel, Russia, Eritrea and many more. It is also the most popular sport in nearly every African nation, with kids playing the sport there as frequent as the English kids. It is also a very popular sport in Asia, being the most popular sport by far in the Middle East and some of the countries in the Far East, as well as most of Europe, including France, Central Europe and many more nations, and of course, there is no question about South America. Guy0307 (talk) 15:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You are in error!!!! Soccer is not the most popular sport in the Palestinian Territories, Israel, Russia, Eritrea and many more!!!! It is not the most popular sport in nearly every African nation!!!! It is not very popular sport in Asia!!!! I wait comments by other balanced and realistic editors because this is not encycloapedia of soccer fans!!!! Stop this comic and exaggerated soccer's propaganda!!!! LEO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.87.241 (talk) 16:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey hey hey hey hey stop it. I've lived in Israel, and soccer is by far the most followed sport. So it is in the rest of the Middle East. The article is around here for more than three years. Someone would've noticed. I'm not a big fan of soccer. I actually prefer basketball, Biathlon, Cycling, Athletics, Swimming and many more. I'll contact a sysop about this topic. Guy0307 (talk) 00:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I know some people who live in the Philippines, the Middle East, and in some of the other countries on that list, and they all are soccer fans. From what I've heard, and not just from them, soccer is one of the most popular sports in the world. Leo, you might want to lay off the exclamation marks as well :). RedZionX 14:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Supposedly Lumumba is from Nigeria living in Italy, LEO is from Italy and I agree to LEO's proposal! In next edit I try some corrections.--PIO (talk) 15:14, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] where do you get your facts???

1. CRICKET - THE NATIONAL SPORT OF ENGLAND!!! - DE FACTO!!! check it up... stop putting rubbish on the website 2. KABBADI??? - NATIONAL SPORT OF INDIA??? DUDE YOURE LIKE AN UTTER DUMBASS... ITS FIELD HOCKEY... I'VE LIVED IN EVERY COMMONWEALTH NATION! I KNOW THIS STUFF! CRICKET IS THE MOST POPULAR THOUGH 3. AFGHANISTAN- THE MOST POPULAR SPORT AT THE MOMENT IS CRICKET! IT HAS EVEN OVER TAKEN FOOTBALL. 4. WALES - THE MOST POPULAR SPORTS ARE 'CRICKET' and 'RUGBY' 5. RUGBY UNION IN CAYMAN ISLANDS??? - RUBBISH!!! 6. NEW ZEALAND - CRICKET IS AGAIN THE DE FACTO NATIONAL SPORT and the 2nd most popular sport... rugby just happens to be the most popular... 7. AUSTRALIA'S MOST POPULAR SPORT IS - CRICKET!!! SO MUCH SO IT IS CONSIDERED THE NATIONAL SPORT OF AUSTRALIA... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashwinosoft (talk • contribs) 15:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC) Ashwinosoft (talk) 20:44, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Ashwinosoft you can discuss but don't remove all integrations of editors in article!!!!--PIO (talk) 16:19, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


PIO-like seriously were do you people recieve facts from??? te ones you ave up tere are utter crap! all te stuff tat is in te previous post is correct... rectify error!because oter wise tis isntt te free encyclopedia tat anyone can edit...and sorry(my space bar, and oter buttons dont work...)Ashwinosoft (talk) 20:44, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sweden under Ice hockey instead of Football.

  • The rules and objectives of the sport or game are known in fairly great detail in the country or nation.
    • I would say more ppl know more about football as it also is less complex.
  • The game or sport is widely played or watched in the country or nation.
    • Football is the most played sport source. And enjoys pretty equal ratings on TV from what i found at mms.se (For example if you compare Hockey Olympics against the Football World cup (which are in the same years) you'll find that Sweden's highest rated match in the oplympics draw less viewers than three world cup games, one quarter final (bra-den), one semi (bra-hol) and the final (bra-fra) [18]. You'll also find that in 2002 Swedens last games in both tournaments had pretty much the same ratings (f:2,885,000 vs h:2,880,000) [19]. The only time a olympic hockey game tops a world cup football game is 2006 where the final (which Sweden was in and won) 3,520,000 vs 3,285,000 [20]. I couldnt find any info about regular leagues. But I would guess football has a overhand because there's so much more football broadcasted, which so many more leagues with high standards against the NHL (plays mostly at night in Sweden) and Elitserien. If you go toppl watching in the stadiums Football has a pretty big overhand (9 423 [21] vs. 6 289 [22])
  • The game or sport has a long history of popularity or extreme current popularity in the country or nation.
    • Both sports are very popular, but I still think football is a bit more popular. If you would count media coverage football is much bigger giving the impression that more ppl want too know about football (or just all who owns the media :p)

Well too sum up... If not to change from ice hockey to football is think they deserve at least a tie. Though if you believe this picture and its sources football should be the more popular one. My guess, more ppl follow football leagues, and most watch hockey when its the national team... But maybe not so much leagues. Chandlertalk 18:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Also if you scroll down to the bottom of the pdf here [23] more too support that football is the national sport imo. Chandlertalk 18:17, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Xhandler you are a soccer's fan then not balanced. I lived in Sweden and I know that Sweden's most important sport is ice hockey. Ice hockey players are the most rich sportpeople because have highest money's contracts. I will show statistics pertinent all nations.--PIO (talk) 18:45, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

"I lived in Sweden and I know that Sweden's most important sport is ice hockey." I am Swedish and have lived in Sweden all my life, and I know no one who thinks Hockey is more important. And to say that ice hockey players are richer... If you compare Allsvenskan too Elitserien maybe... because Elitserien is probably top5 in the whole world as a league, whilst Allsvenskan has a hard time ranking top30 in the world... So all good players go abroad where they make much more money. Chandlertalk 20:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
If someone some how would find anything that states that Hockey was the national sport of Sweden (which i doubt). It still can't be
  • Sweden - Ice hockey is the national and most popular sport followed by soccer and tennis. Bandy is the traditional Swedish winter sport. Although floorball is the sport with the most active athletes.
As Football is more popular. It would have to be something like
  • Sweden - Ice hockey is the national, but the most popular sport is Football. Chandlertalk 12:25, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I added your reference pertinent television's attendance and nations with two most popular sports in article.--PIO (talk) 18:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] cricket???

guys guys... you have utterly screwed up!!! there was research done and it showed that around 69% of australians have passion for cricket 2nd tto none... and it is also considered the national sport... look it up... why iis wikipedia giving bullshit rubbish facts??? -englands DE FACTO national sport is cricket.. - south africa's 2nd most popular sport. is cricket... you have that section where it says multi sported countries and it says football and ruby??? thats garbage... honestly... where on earth do you get your bloody facts??? youve got tons of facts wrong...like i said before... ive lived in ALL the commonwealth countrie.s.. and they ADORE cricket... its no joke... but you dum shits have ignored that and put bull shit rubbish facts...


good luck being a ' reliable' source... because everytime i make edits... you just replace it...

cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.21.112.18 (talk) 13:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

This article is not simple then sourced statements are welcome.--PIO (talk) 14:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted PIO's removal of cricket. Cricket is the most popular across the country. I removed the reference to the television audiences as they would be regionally focused and not representative of the country. -- Chuq (talk) 01:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
To User:Fourplay - the above comment is my reasoning for removing the statement. Just because rugby league has 4 of the top 10 sporting programs, it doesn't make it the "national sport" - so even though it was referenced, the reference didn't back up what was being claimed. PIO also removed the reference to cricket, which, is more "national" than Australian rules football or rugby league, which are regionally focused. Also, please do not be uncivil to other editors. -- Chuq (talk) 07:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
To User:Chuq Popularity is part of the criteria used to determine a national sport, and the popularity of a sport is best reflected via crowd numbers and nation wide television ratings. Unlike others who just yell, CRICKET IS THE NATIONAL SPORT!!! with nothing to back it up, I post a valid reference listing the nations most watched sports yet it gets deleted.. why? because it doesn't suit some peoples agenda's that rugby league is the most watched sport on television. Maybe we should delete "what is the most attended sport" too? - fourplay
Administrator Chuq, good and dear friend, I explained situation in your discussion's page with valid source and cricket is not popular among Aussies like as team sports with oval ball!!!! Cricket was ancient national sport in England and some former colonies but Aussie football is national and most popular sport among Aussies. I propose this statement: Aussie football is national and most popular sport among Aussies and remove Australia from nations with two most popular sports because evidence it's.--PIO (talk) 16:07, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps I can help a little with this interesting debate. It's difficult to see why Fourplay and PIO are so determined that they are right. Devotion to their source, I guess, which is not a bad thing. Anyway, to shed some light on the matter, I'd recommend that this slow burn edit war can be resolved by having a look at the following. First, the articles on Sport in Australia, Sport in Western Australia, List of sports venues in Australia, Nine's Wide World of Sport and this from WikiAnswers: [24]. Second, this article from The Age from last May: [25]. Third, have a look at the list of News stories at the home page of Sports Australia at http://www.sportsaustralia.com/, which is a fair guide to what they think the main sports are. Fourth, you can read this article from the Sydney Morning Herald and the following blog, which discusses the matter in some detail: [26]. Fifth, a visit to the sports' page of the website of the ABC to see what they are talking about: http://www.abc.net.au/news/sport/. Likewise with the Sydney Morning Herald website: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/ and that of The Australian http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sport/. Last, some additional sources: http://www.onlineaustralia.org/sport.html and http://www.yesaustralia.com/Estilo-esportesing.htm.
Glad to be of assistance. --AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 14:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
1. Cathy Freeman and Ian Thorpe both retired years ago and are irrelevant to the debate. 2. The Sweeney report has ZERO credibility, last year it listed swimming as the national sport. This year it listed swimming as more popular than AFL and rugby league, it is foolish to use such a source. 3. I don't know why you insist on even entering rugby union into the debate, on what basis? It does not even come close to the NRL or AFL for that matter. -fourplay
Ian Thorpe retired in Nov 2006 [27], not "years ago". However, you are absolutely right. There's no reason on earth why this article should even mention anything other than your two personal favourites, AFL and rugby league. Every other editor "is foolish", and worthy of being told to "Stop vandalising the page with complete BS" [28] and should indeed be described as "u moron" [29]. Keep up the good work, Fourplay. Your contributions to this encyclopedia are excellent. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 09:58, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Editors and friends you can read here: Australian rules football it is the most popular football code in Australia. Footy is Australian national sport too.--PIO (talk) 18:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is one of the national sports of Australia. Nobody is denying that. The question is whether Fourplay will allow the mention of any other sports than his beloved Aussie Rules and rugby league.--AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 19:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I've reverted this section back to what it was before certain editors started changing it to suit their personal beliefs. A few comments:

  1. The Sweeney Report does not claim any particular sport is a "national sport" - it reports which sports are most popular, combining participation (organised and casual), media attention, attendance, and interest.
  2. Australian rules football is the most popular code, but interest in it is greatly skewed depending on where in the country you are - so it warrants a mention, but is not definitively national. -- Chuq (talk) 23:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
The Sweeney report does not take the actual true figures of all those things its supposed to be combining. For eg, instead of simply looking at the TV ratings, it will call up someone living in Adelaide and say, "have u watched a swimming race this year?" Meanwhile it is much more accurate to simply look at the TV ratings. If swimming was more popular than rugby league/AFL for eg. why doesn't it sell out 80,000 capacity stadiums for swimming, or have a $500m TV deal? Obviously it is not as popular as the Sweeney Report indicates. The Sweeney report does not account for people living in regional areas either. Obviously going straight to the source and looking directly at TV ratings is more accurate than calling 1000 people in a country of 20+ million and asking if they watched a sport on TV. By the way, I don't like AFL, but I am not blind to the fact it is the most attended sport in Australia. - fourplay —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourplay (talk • contribs) 01:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I never claimed swimming was - I was explaining that Sweeney reports include participation as well as other factors which is why swimming rate so highly. I agree that swimming is not a national sport. Your comment about TV ratings is amusing, however, because the number of households sampled isn't much more than 1000 nationwide, so it is no more or less precise - except that they are not measuring TV ratings, they are measuring interest in certain sports, which are not the same thing. -- Chuq (talk) 01:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Fourplay and Chuq, it is obvious that you can't decide on one version. No matter what you say the other won't agree to it. We need to find a neutral version. Please don't edit the article until we find one. Guy0307 (talk) 01:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

My changes were simply to restore it to the version which had been in place before the recent bout of revert-warring started around November/December 2007. -- Chuq (talk) 02:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

How about sending it to arbitration at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian sports and asking them to decide? Once they've reached consensus on a) which sports should be mentioned and b) a form of wording, hopefully everyone can agree to stick to the result. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 07:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

That particular project doesn't get a whole lot of traffic, but I have posted a request at WP:AWNB for further comments.
Also note I am reverting PIO's most recent edit, due to mentioning the discussion page as part of the article - this is against the self-references to avoid guideline. -- Chuq (talk) 09:34, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
It seems the issue is the lack of definition in the article of exactly what is to be listed. Australia has no deemed "national" sport but has different popular sports depending on definition. According to the Exercise, Recreation and Sport Survey (ERASS) 2006 if you were ranking this by participation in organised sport then the list would be Golf->Netball->Tennis->Soccer->Cricket->Basketball->Aussie Rules, a list that may strike some as odd. Perhaps settle here on the definition of a "National Sport" before continuing the battle - Peripitus (Talk) 11:20, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
To answer Peripitus, I agree it's hard, but I think the definition given at the top of this article is reasonably clear, isn't it? I'll paste the most important parts here to save flipping back and forth:
"A national sport is a sport or game that is considered to be a popularly intrinsic part of the culture or is the most popular sport of a country or nation.
Although there are normally no official parameters towards defining what is a national sport, there are some general characteristics that most national sports share:
  • The rules and objectives of the sport or game are known in fairly great detail in the country or nation.
  • The game or sport is widely played or watched in the country or nation.
  • The game or sport has a long history of popularity or extreme current popularity in the country or nation.
This article generally goes by the popularity of the sports in all the countries".
Australia is probably more complex than other countries (hence this debate) as some sports have strong regional following but are weaker in other areas. So I'd put forward national sports of Oz as (in no order) cricket, both codes of rugby and Aussie Rules. (Oh, and feeding pokies, of course).--AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 11:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
but by that criteria list (widely known in detail, widely played or watched and long history) you can still arbitrarily pick any set you like depending on the weight applied to each factor. widely played+long history+well known -> Golf, If it's defined as most watched+attended to watch+played then cricket is on the list. What form of popularity is to be used ? Number of Couch potatoes watching, number attending live matches, amount gambled, number actually playing or some combination ? Do you look at the data from the latest available year, avg of the last 50 years, last 100 years, last 5 years or what ? Until this is sorted it's hard to see the battle being put to bed. - Peripitus (Talk) 20:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I know. Common sense tells us what the national sports are and netball's not one of them. But finding a formula to get there... well... --AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 20:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Both codes of rugby? Rugby union is not even close to rugby league in Australia. - fourplay —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourplay (talk • contribs) 01:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I remember some research that showed soccer had the largest number of actual (as opposed to armchair) participation. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 22:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfC: Australia's national and most popular sport

Is Australian rules football national and most popular sport in Australia?

My uncle is Australian citizen: he lives in Haberfield, New South Wales and I have been in Australia 6 times. I request for comments because for me footy is sure national and most popular sport in Australia! You all can read source: Australia's attendance.--PIO (talk) 17:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The problem with statistics is that there are so many sources out there, they are all measured differently, and you can choose which one you prefer. Going by that report, Australia's second most popular sport is horse racing.
Another example of skewed statistics - most people will say Australian rules or cricket is the biggest, but what if you compare football (soccer)? At the top level of each sport, the Socceroos draw bigger crowds than international cricket or the AFL. At the second level, the A-League draws bigger crowds than domestic cricket (Pura Cup/Ford Ranger Cup) or the VFL. But that doesn't mean association football is more popular. I'm not saying it is more popular, but I'm just showing how statistics can say anything you want. If participation is taken into account, again it would #1.
Interesting comments about TV ratings here - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=&postcount=21 - it is from an AFL fan on an AFL forum so you would expect some bias, but has some points worth reading.
The biggest crowd for any sporting event in Australia is the Melbourne Cup - but it is not our most popular sport, unless you call getting drunk a sport. The Sweeney report ranks swimming highly, because it includes participation - so if you go for a swim at the beach, that brings swimming further up the list.
There's a statistic for every sport, my preference of "Cricket, Australian rules football, and rugby league, in no particular order" is just gut feeling. Not very verifiable or citable, I know. In the interests of openness and transparency, my personal favourite sports are cricket and association football. -- Chuq (talk) 01:37, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


--- hey guys just to clear an earlier comment... and this one a survey was done which showed that obver 69% of australians had a passion for cricket parallel to none... and attendances and participation rates maen nothing... example- in australia, heck even new zealand, the sports with the highest participation rates are football (association) --- now list that as the national sport... you'd get yourself into quite a tussle... you see what i mean? i lived in melbourne 3 weks ago, and trust me cricket is a religion... comparable to even india! ... its jsut traditionally popular... just as it is in england, sa, windies etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.75.29 (talk) 19:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Cricket isn't a religion in Melbourne. Many people here don't even like cricket. AFL is the closest you can get to a religion in Melbourne. Nearly everyone here is a fan of a team. You can't compare us to India. Guy0307 (talk) 06:12, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

An interesting quote from the main national daily newspaper in Australia - The Australian [30]:

“ Cricket, the one true national sport, has helped forge the country's international identity. The first Australian cricket team won against England 24 years before Federation and Ponting and his men wear a baggy green cap bearing the pre-Federation coat of arms. ”

Mattinbgn\talk 11:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

you guys keep saying you want evidence... here is a survey done by sweeney sports... that says it all: http://www.sweeneyresearch.com.au/newsPDF/news_pdf_16.pdf

read it it says that cricekt is the most popular sport in australia, so i belive that australia sghould be under cricket, but it should be noted that ausi rules and rugby are pretty popular too... because going by stats... football has more people playing it than any sport list that as the natl sport and then you'd run in to some trouble cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashwinosoft (talk • contribs) 12:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

How about: Cricket is the national sport. But the sports of Australian rules football and Rugby league are also thought of as national sports as they are popular in their areas in winter.

Or something along those lines.InsteadOf (talk) 04:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

You all can read it:football australiano for initial statement è il gioco nazionale australiano e l'attività atletica di gran lunga più praticata e seguita in Australia-translate-Australian football is national and by far most popular and participated athletic game in Australia. This initial statement was never changed then disputed since April 2004 when article was inserted!!!!--PIO (talk) 17:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

"The national sport" of a country is a very vague and waffly term that can have different meanings and in general doesn't exist. Wikipedia should not declare any sport "Australia's national sport", but simply describe the ways in which some sports are considered "the national sport" by some people. It is fair enough to say that one sport has highest attendances, another has highest participation, another has greatest interest according to Sweeney and so on in their articles, but none of these in themselves are a claim to the title "national sport". JPD (talk) 17:48, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

How about: Australians have a vast range of sporting interests and as such there is no 'one' national sport. Cricket, Australian rules football, and Rugby League football are all claimed to be one of the national sports by various people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by InsteadOf (talk • contribs) 06:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You all can read simple:Australian Rules Football#What is Football? Football is the most popular sport in Australia is first sentence!!!!--PIO (talk) 18:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid Wikipedia's not a source, PIO. It can't be. I could write there that hamster racing is the most popular sport. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 19:32, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear friend, I added a lot of sources in this and related articles!--PIO (talk) 15:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

  • The opening paragraph of this article defines a "national sport" as a sport that a) the majority of a country knows the rules to, b) is played by a large number of people, or c) is currently or historically very popular. The way it stands now (mentioning all three sports with equal weight) would give the impression that all three sports are played fairly homogenously throughout the population, which is not so. So how about this: "Cricket is Australia's national sport during the summer months. During the winter months, some states traditionally play Australian Rules Football whilst others traditionally play Rugby."Yeti Hunter (talk) 06:52, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

That would give the impression that cricket is bigger than RL and AFL..but in reality u could even say cricket runs in the "off season" of Australian sport. You have to differentiate between rugby league and rugby union too, two different sports and union does not come close to RL. -fourplay

It would be wrong to say Cricket, AFL, Rugby or almost any individual sports game is Australia's national sport. I would say that you would need to mention a group of sport this is because the popularity of the sports vary within the states of Australia, AFL for example has very strong origins in the state of Victoria and it shows slightly in that the popularity of AFL is stronger than Rugby but at the same time the popularity of Rugby is much stronger in Queensland than in AFL. I suppose you could say Cricket is the national sport on the basis that it has a strong following in all parts of Australia but in my opinion the article would be very misconstrued. I could add more but I would probably be ranting. --Sin Harvest (talk) 05:59, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
We have unimpeachable references saying that cricket is the national sport. Where are the references that claim otherwise? Relata refero (talk) 12:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Um, no we don't. We have some journalists opinions - we have no official national sport. ATM, in summer, cricket is big - but really only the national team, not the state games. Ashes series are big. But AFL draws bigger crowds. RL SOO games are bigger. Having contributed to the current statement, I think it sums it all up. The only thing that I think is possibly missing is a comment about the Wallabies and Socceroos being the most popular national teams alongside cricket. But that is probably too much detail.The-Pope (talk) 12:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually we have some unimpeachable academic references as well: [31] is an example; and a book entitled: "The Games are Not the Same: The Political Economy of Football in Australia" published by Melbourne U Press is equally clear, even explaining why it continues to have that position (international events, major annual events, truly national league); not to mention David Mosler's "Australia, the Recreational Society" and a dozen others. I haven't been able to find any comparable references for League or footie. Relata refero (talk) 13:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
That's great, but as they aren't web readable, I think you'll need to reference them in detail (ie page no and full publish details). But I still think they could still just be someones POV. There is no government degree as to what our national sport is, so I think "often refered to" comment would need to stay, just add more refs to back it up and prevent those anti-cricket from removing it. I actually agree that cricket is the most evenly national sport, but the footy codes win on the most popular in any single place - just look at the sports pages in the paper. You rarely read about the cricketers during the off or pre-seasons (unless they are on tour), but the footballers are always in the news for almost any reason! Of course the # and regularity of games, international/state/club games, stadium size, TV timing, successfulness of the teams and a lot of other things can influence popularity from year to year and place to place (ie basketball exploded in Perth in the late 80s/early 90s, soccer likewise in early 2000s... but both struggle to fill their downsized stadiums now.) The-Pope (talk) 14:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
The problem remains that the editors of the article have not spent the time to form a consensus. Not on what is the national sport in Australia but what is the definition of National sport. If you define it by attendance, recent attendance, TV audience, people attending the match or any other mark you will get a different answer. The only sensible one I can find is...with reputable sources (print media and the news) what do they end the sentence with when they say "Australia's national sport is .....". Based on this (see details) the national sport is now , and has mostly always been Cricket. Some sources mention it as AFL but only few. I'm not advocating that this is what the article should read but this is what I think it would read if you went by this definition. Consensus needs to be reached here on the basic definition for "Australia's National Sport" - Peripitus (Talk) 02:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfC: edits

Greetings I dont want trouble, but this is the 'free encyclopedia "that anyone can edit" ' Why is it when ever I make MINOR edits...they are removed? now the argument here is cricket- cricket is undeniably the national sport in some countries, i think the cricket and australia thing shoujld be settled cricket IS considered australias national sport becaue unlike the football codes it recieves constant support... so yes

i add that and some one keeps removing it

this really vents me... but yes my edits are correct - flawless!!! please dont remove them thanks cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.75.29 (talk) 17:14, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Fourplay, your edits are not a good idea for several reasons. It is best to keep it simple, and leave details to pages like Sport in Australia. There may be arguments that rugby league has the highest tv audiences, but if we say that we would also have to say that Aussie rules is the most attended sport. The Sweeney report is the only source so far that tries (however imperfectly) to look at the whole picture, so we start with that, and point out the undiputed fact that different forms a football are extremely popular in different parts of the country. Even if we were to say more than that, you would need to find a better reference for a tv claim. We are talking about which sports attract the most attention overall, not simply which event drew the most tv viewers. JPD (talk) 11:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Going by which sports attract most attention in australia, its probably cricket, check out the news papers etc... most sports news is cricket news, www.theaustralian.com.au, most news there is cricket... and the biggest news is also cricket look into thaT, till then i think australia should be under the cricket section. cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashwinosoft (talk • contribs) 12:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Ashwin thats because its the offseason for other sports. JDO The Sweeney report excludes all of regional Australia yet includes cities like Hobart. 40% of rugby leagues fanbase live in regional areas. Rugby League blows every sport out of the water in regional Australia. When it comes to TV ratings.. TV viewers=interest. I went for a swim yesterday in my pool, I also watched 1 swimming race last year.. According to the Sweeney report I would now be a participant and a huge fan of swimming. I put "rugby league, cricket, and AFL are Australia's 3 most popular sports, in no particular order." But it gets edited by the AFL and cricket fanboys adamant their sport is number one. - fourplay —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourplay (talk • contribs) 00:35, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
If 40% of rugby league fans are not in cities, and the majority of the Australian population live in cities, how do you propose league to be the national sport? 121.45.253.188 (talk) 02:39, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
because its the most watched sport nation wide? duh... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourplay (talk • contribs) 04:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Im a cricket and football(australian) fan, and i my opinion is that Australia does not have a single national sport, but has two. Cricket is popular in all states and territories, having no competition from any sport in the Australian summer. I dont think anybody would dispute that cricket is a national sport. As for football, it is followed in all states and territories, with teams in all states except for Tasmania. League is only followed in the eastern states and only has teams in those areas. As for the tv figures. I know for a fact that the AFL gets higher tv ratings on average for its games, and ill be looking for those sources. However league does get more 'big' tv ratings because of its State of Origin. Look out for the AFL all stars game next year. InsteadOf (talk) 05:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe it is silly to say any sport is our national sport, but the fact is that cricket is often referred to in that way. Whether this is true or not shouldn't stop us mentioning it. My version did not say that it was the national sport, but that it is sometimes called that. The Sweeny report has some flaws, but arguing that here is original research, and not allowed. We can only report what the sources say, correct or otherwise. Having said that, saying "tv viewers = interest" is incredibly stupid, and you haven't even given a source for the idea that rugby league has the most tv viewers or is the most watched nationwide. Your source says that the NRL grand final was the most watched sports event last year - this isn't at all the same thing (it also depends greatly from year to year on the performance of the Brisbane Lions, Sydney Swans and Melbourne Storm). We shouldn't say that three sports are the "most popular sports", either - what does this mean? Where is the source? Let's just stick to the simple facts. JPD (talk) 12:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

JDP try not to make yourself look "incredibly stupid" as I have referenced it many times. http://www.thinktv.com.au//Media/Stats_&_Graphs/Top_Programs/Top_50_Programs_2007_Survey10.pdf Have a look for yourself. If someone is watching a sport on TV, they are obviously interested in it. "Let's stick to simple facts"? Thats what im doing.. with things like TV viewers. -fourplay

As well as being much too aggressive, I don't think that's quite fair, Fourplay. For example, in England, the whole country sits down to watch the Grand National and (to a lesser extent) finals' weekend at Wimbledon. But that doesn't make them interested in either horse racing or tennis. It's just that people watch them. The Grand National and Wimbledon can be described as national institutions, but by your definition racing and tennis could be called national sports in England. I don't think so. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 08:07, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree 100% that no sport should be called the national sport.. I mainly argue the TV ratings and crowd figures to show Australia has no national sport. It keeps being edited though by people claiming cricket is the national sport, yet it wins in neither TV ratings or crowd and it isn't strong enough to support a good domestic competition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourplay (talk • contribs) 14:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
That's fair enough, except I disagree with the last part. Cricket clearly is strong enough to sustain a good domestic competition. It's the current format that's the problem, in my view, especially with the national squad players hardly ever playing in it. A 24-team national league in two, maybe three divisions is the answer. But that's a different topic. I think the main problem here is PIO, frankly, and no doubt he'll be along in a little while to revert back to his last version, and then we can start all over again. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 14:38, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear friend, then may we request arbitration?--PIO (talk) 18:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

PIO, How about, before any arbitration, you try actually reading the "sources" you keep adding? Then, try to understand that is some countries it is impossible to definitely say that one sport is the most popular.
Fourplay, please read what I said again. The source you provided did not say that rugby league had the most tv viewers. It said that the NRL grand final was the most watched tv sport program. These are not the same thing - to make a comment about the tv viewership for a whole sport, we would want to know how many people watched any game during the year, or perhaps if we are looking for more interest, how many people watched the sport on tv at least a certain number of times. You also said that if someone is watching a sport on tv, they are showing some interest - that's true to some extent, but to say that tv viewers = interest, you would also need to know that anyone who is interested in the sport watched it on tv, which is not true. JPD (talk) 12:20, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Maybe the article should simply that one of Australia's national pasttimes is arguing about which code of football is better/more popular. It's not far from the truth! JPD (talk) 13:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Plus I insist on at least a passing reference to playing pokies. :-) AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 13:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] field hockey

isnt field hockey one of the most popular sports in germany, netherlands argentina and some other places? isn't it also popular in kenya considering they got to the semi finals of the 1st ever world cup? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.75.29 (talk) 09:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] national sport of england

isnt cricket the national sport of england? yes or no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.21.112.18 (talk) 17:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

England has some national sports because English men invented cricket, soccer, rugby union and league then we can consider all these sports as English national sports too.--PIO (talk) 12:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Silly edit war continuing

Perhaps the warring/reverting editors are open to learning that their actions are pointless ? Hundreds of edits, little talk page discussion and no consensus on the article constitute a series of pointless edit/revert wars. Can the related editors please come to the talk page, discuss and either agree or move to other articles ? - Peripitus (Talk) 03:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Somehow it ended up being discussed here Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/ Australian rules football‎. The-Pope (talk) 03:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Only because some of the warring parties have dibs in multiple battles. - Peripitus (Talk) 09:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ireland

Although Gaelic football and Hurling were the original sports of Ireland and are still very popular, Football (Soccer) has taken over as most popular, proof of this is attendances of matches in Gaelic football (Apart from the final) compared to attendances to Irish National Football matches (Which sell out nearly every match). football is clearly a more popular sport.

And GAA is definitely more popular than Hurling nowadays, which is why the "All Ireland Final" could refer to either sport, but it actually refers to Gaelic football. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.76.73 (talk) 01:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

"Football (Soccer) has taken over as most popular" Maybe in dublin but over all Ireland Gaelic games are far more popular both in terms of playing and watching. "to attendances to Irish National Football matches (Which sell out nearly every match)" Soccer staduims have far smaller capacities than gaa grounds. "And GAA is definitely more popular than Hurling nowadays, which is why the "All Ireland Final" could refer to either sport, but it actually refers to Gaelic football" Hurling is one of the GAA games and All Ireland Final can refer to either. P.S what about handball,camogie and rounders?Non of these are very popular but are official sports of the GAA

"Football (Soccer) has taken over as most popular, proof of this is attendances of matches in Gaelic football (Apart from the final) compared to attendances to Irish National Football matches (Which sell out nearly every match). football is clearly a more popular sport." Measuring which sport is more popular - Gaelic Football or Soccer - is a tricky issue. Both are very popular and, indeed, many people support both sports. But saying that attendance at international soccer matches shows soccer to be more popular than gaelic football is not a fair way of looking at it, for the following reason: International soccer matches, by virtue of involving a team that the WHOLE country can support, can appeal to every part of the country. Gaelic Football matches, however, can only involve two LOCAL teams e.g. Galway vs Clare, Tipperary vs Cork etc....so the appeal of any particular Gaelic Football match is limited to a much smaller number of people than that of an international soccer match. Furthermore, soccer internationals occur much less frequently than important Gaelic Football matches, which adds to the relative attractiveness of any particular international soccer match. Soccer is clearly extremely popular in Ireland, and nothing electrifies the country like a successful Irish soccer team, but Gaelic Football is undoubtedly the most popular in terms of regular match attendance and community participation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Bosicans (talk • contribs) 12:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] defacto national sports

for defacto national sports... does the country go under the defacto national sport or the most popular sport???

say in like a certain country X 50 million population all 50 million follow boxing and like 45 million follow lacrosse... and lacrosse is the national sport so would country X fall under boxing or lacrosse?

this is jsut a hypothetical example but it applies to several countries... eg - sri lanka - volleyball and cricket, afganistan - buzkashi and cricket, italy - many traditional sports and soccer.,.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.21.112.22 (talk) 17:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mediation Closed

After trying at this for over a month, I am of the opinion that we have exhausted all possible options. Every conceivable wording has been put forward, and still there is dissent over which version should be used on the various pages. Therefore, I am declaring this mediation at an impasse and have closed it. Parties should continue to discuss it and may seek out other forms of dispute resolution. I would advise all parties involved to remain civil and to follow proper policies in handling the matter further. Thank you. MBisanz talk 05:38, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I Just Dont Get it

The Melbourne Storm (a team that draws less than 15,000 a home game and which most people in Melbourne would not have even heard of) gets into a Grand Final and scores a big television audience in Melbourne in 2007 it follows that rugby league is more watched than Australian Rules ????? You have got to be kidding me. Wikipedia is a joke.

So the fact that AFL has consistently topped the television ratings and attendance for the last decade means nothing ?

Well I'll be ... --Rulesfan (talk) 02:30, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Rugby League had 4 games in the top 10, including the #1 most watched broadcast in Australia.

Where as AFL only had 1 game in the top 10. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.92.135 (talk) 16:45, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Block

After other block for edit warring, is it allowable to reach a consensus? I would like add other nations with 3 most popular sports then I agree integrations of 2 unlogged editors: I suggest to add USA, England, South Africa and Fiji.--Jxy (talk) 11:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

What 3 most popular sports would you have for England? Football dwarves every other competitive sport in terms of participation, attendance and press/TV coverage by a huge margin. - fchd (talk) 11:46, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, you have an opinion but some editors started edit warring about most popular sports in England. If rugby union, league and sevens are forms of the same sport, is rugby popular at same level of soccer?--Jxy (talk) 14:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Not even close, even if you add all the various forms of rugby together. - fchd (talk) 14:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

But for simple example, do you know number of participation in cue sports for pastime in England? Are they 5 millions players in pubs and clubs? Are soccer players for pastime 2 millions? Non competitive participation is important for value the popularity.--Jxy (talk) 15:38, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why are we deying baseball and basketball

Why can Austrialia have three most popular sports but the U.S.A. and Ireland can't when the stats show that they more than one popular sport. I've lived in all three countries, and Baseball and Basketball are more important to the American Psyce then Cricket and A.R. is to Australias'. And saying Hurling is more popular in Ireland than G. Football is the funniest thing i've ever heard. (66.61.41.17 (talk) 21:54, 3 April 2008 (UTC))

Get a reference. Chandlertalk 22:07, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

You can't stat what a human heart feels (66.61.41.17 (talk) 22:32, 3 April 2008 (UTC)).

Then you can't have it in Wikipedia. See WP:OR. It's not one of my favourite policies, but you have to obey it. Guy0307 (talk) 02:54, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

I would like to suggest this article be move to List of sports by popularity by country or something similar and then a new article be created for sports which have been officially named as such like Hurling,Lacrosse and ice hockeyGnevin (talk) 08:07, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

This change, which was performed unilaterally, has such been undone by four separate administrators, and one non-administrator user. You do not have consensus for this radical edit.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 22:33, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Someone deleted A LOT of countries

That have football as their national sport. A few months ago the tally was 124. Some nations disappeared from the list. Guy0307 (talk) 02:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR (talk) 18:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

National sport is not the most populor sport in the country , this article is a List of sports popularity by country, this page should be moved and national sport should be for sports like Hurling,Lacrosse and ice hockey which a goverenment has declared to be the national sport or pasttime Gnevin (talk) 16:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Oppose national sports has strong ties with how popular the sport was/is other wise it would be never considered a national sport--THUGCHILDz 19:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment you basing this on what ? Lacrosse as far as i know has never been hugely popular in canada? Even if it does have strong ties with popularity , they should be treated as separated,with natioanal sports detailing sports like Lacrosse and ice hockey and maybe defacto national sports like baseball if evidence can be found to sport it Gnevin (talk) 01:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Not only is the suggested new title ugly, but it suggestly that the article contains quantitative data on the popularity of various sports, which it doesn't. Also I don't believe most people use 'national sport' in the way that the nominator is thinking of. The way, the truth, and the light (talk) 01:09, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment I don't believe most people use 'national sport' in the way that the nominator is thinking of care to Prove it as my defination is proven [32] ? If you don't like my title then suggest a new title one that allows the two articles contained in one here to be split and tidied Gnevin (talk) 01:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Laws do not record the way people actually use words, which is what's relevant here (unless we were talking specifically about the legal context, which we're not). Also, that ihttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:National_sport&action=submit

Editing Talk:National sport - Preview - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedias only relevant to Canada, and as far as I know, most countries have no such law. The way, the truth, and the light (talk) 01:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Care to prove it ? I've proven my usage you've yet to show that went people say national sport they in fact mean most popular sport Gnevin (talk) 14:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose existing title was adequate, proposed title isn't right for this article (although could make a good article in its own right. Soundabuser (talk) 12:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment References which support my usage Buzkashi , [33] , Sport_in_India [34] ,Sport_in_Japan,[[35]] Sport in Ireland [36][37] .This article is two articles in one and needs to be split, pick a title you'll be happy with but national sport needs to be sport like the above , clear cut national sport not list of popular sports by country Gnevin (talk) 11:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

    • Agree with User:Gnevin. "National sport" and "Most popular sport" may well be two different things, so it is probably best to keep them seperate. - fchd (talk) 11:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Suggested split

As per my comments above and fchd can we split this article ?Gnevin (talk) 14:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Having an article national sport may produce problems with WP:V, popularity is easily quantifiable. Another Issue is how do you define a nation, Ireland is a sporting nation in some contexts and not others, are Cornish Wrestling, Basque pelota or Gouren national sports, you could argue either way. Perhaps something like indigenous sports may be more appropriate Fasach Nua (talk) 19:17, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Well some are defined as such by governemnts , other like in Ireland are defacto with a large number of reference to support it Gnevin (talk) 19:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland as sporting nations would both be Association football, but Ireland would be Hurling or football. I'm sure that I could find plenty of references to say that Basque pelota is a national sport, and equally many to say the Basque Country is not a nation. I don't object to a split, I'm just not sure what to split too. Fasach Nua (talk) 19:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
What I'd suggest is split the article in terms of popularity and national sports. Gnevin (talk) 14:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

No because they two things go hand in hand in most cases.--THUGCHILDz 22:54, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Really ? Because of the 6 sports I listed in the RM as being a national sport, 5 where not most popular sport , I am assuming hockey is the most popular in Canada. So care too prove two things go hand in hand in most cases and even if they did who cares as they are two separate idea's . Human_Development_Index and Gross domestic product would be two concepts that go hand in hand but we don't list HDI as part of GDP Gnevin (talk) 23:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't care about the sports you mentioned, cause really do they make up the majority? I think not. If a sport wasn't popular in a nation than it wouldn't be even considered as national sport in most cases. Some that are considered national sports but aren't popular currently is due to them declining in popularity but when it was 1st considered a national sport it had to be popular among the people of that nation.--THUGCHILDz 00:14, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Must be nice to be able to ignore WP:V and WP:Cite, which while we are on the issue of WP:V ,please define popular,is it by tv figures? attendance at games?
Culture_of_Albania,http://www.goeagleslanding.org/GO_Web/Albania_files/albania.pdf travel.mapsofworld.com/albania/culture-of-albania.htmlGnevin (talk) 14:41, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion: A third opinion was requested. As an outsider, I find the separation of what countries official national sport is and what the most popular sport is a very natural one. I was surprised to find listings of what are popular sports or "national pastimes" in this article, I would have expected the official national sport, if any. Mixing it up gets weird. For example, football and icehockey (and equine sports, but as usual the girls get ignored in the male world of sports) are the biggest sports. But if somebody asked for a "national" sport, they could possibly say icehockey, but rather cross country skiing or perhaps bandy, as these are more typically Swedish. I don't think there is an official national sport in Sweden. I think that the listings of most popular sports should go away from this article, so I guess I support the split. That's my third opinion. :-) --Regebro (talk) 22:16, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] CRICKET SPAMMER PLEASE STOP

I love Cricket but someone is seriously undermining the credibility of the article by adding umpteen nations to the Cricket list that do not belong there. To start with they were questionable e.g. Afghanistan and UAE, but at least there were sources providied. But Cricket equal in popularity with football in England? I wish it were so! Wales, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga have been taken off the Rugby Union list and added to Cricket, anyone familiar with the cultures of these nations wouald know Rugby is king. Maybe Football could have a joint claim to Rugby in Wales, but not Cricket! Now it's getting silly, Uganda, French Caledonia?! Please, for countries that don't make up Test Match teams please provide sources. 22:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. As far as I can tell, cricket is nowhere near as popular as the other sports listed in any of those countries. In England it may well be well supported, but it's still not even close to football on the radar. - fchd (talk) 20:55, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Guy0307 (talk) 12:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Italian national identity...

Car racing (Maserati, Ferrari, De Tomaso, Lamborghini, Osella, Dallara), motorcycle racing (Benelli, MV Agusta, Mondial, Ducati, Aprilia, Beta) and cycling (Giro d'Italia) are part of the national identity, too. That's false, racing are followed only when Italian cars/drivers win. Just like skiing, who was heavily followed in the Valanga Azzurra era or Alberto Tomba's peak of success, but nowadays RAI barely transmits World Cups. Only cycling is really part of the national identity. --necronudist (talk) 10:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cricket and Scotland

As in Ireland I'd be honestly astonished if cricket's now a major game in Scotland; hilly country population almost entirely urban with few villages. Plus all the time I spent growing up there and no-one seemed to watch it let alone play it. Good luck to it, maybe it's expanding but I'm seriously amazed at its inclusion.Zagubov (talk) 22:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

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