Talk:National Socialist black metal

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New Sections: Intend to add information about the NSBM controversy among BM listeners in "NSBM in the Broader Black Metal Scene." In "National Socialism in Early Black Metal" will probably cite Burzum's "My Journey to the Stars", Darkthrone's "Jewish Behavior" and "Aryan Black Metal" stuff, etc. Suggest that if someone actually comes along and wants to add something that they do something along those lines. --68.6.244.91 06:03, 25 October 2005 (UTC) --

About my edit: Eliminated the bit about about NSBM bands lacking an understanding as to the true meaning of "Aryan" (Criticism of Nazi useage of the term belongs in the entry about Aryans itself) Also eliminated "Some believe that Christianity originated as a Jewish conspiracy to control Aryans to push their Zionist agenda forward." I think it should stay out unless someone can actually produce a source. I'm not an expert on NSBM but I've yet to hear the anti-christian thing put this way. Few more general attempts at improvement. --68.6.244.91 05:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

That's actually straight out of Nazi rhetoric. Most of them hated Christianity and endured it for practical reasons. Nietzsche also circumspectly refers to it as a Judean religion. www.anus.com 03:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

-- Burzum's Black Metal albums aren't NSBM, altough his latter works (mostly electronic) could be called NS music. They are, however, not BM and thus Burzum can't be called NSBM music.

- Burzum's Black Metal albums aren't NSBM indeed. As i said beneath, Varg claimed to not even be socialist on a national level, so he cannot be linked to NSBM. I believe, however, in the period he called himself a "nazi" (which he later claimed was a politcally incorect term to use for his ideas). His "Ambient" keyboard albums are more related to his "heathen", or rather, Odalistic ideas. They are not National Socialistic! refernce: A Burzum Story: "The Nazi Ghost" Darksteel 14:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I very much disagree. On the first album, 'Burzum' (self-titled), the lyrics "War between the races" can be found on the song 'My Journey to the stars'. Simply because the music isn't filled lyrically with mindless slogans, doesn't mean such music wasn't made to represent a certain ideology. Burzum is probably the founder of the NSBM genre. Nagelfar 04:06, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
You need to give a better example than that one. The phrase appears at the end of the song, and the other lyrics have no such content. My interpretation is more of a general chaotic misanthropic feeling there at the end. It says: "Darkness, Hate and Winter Rules the Earth when I Return, War Between Races, A Goal Is Reached, Chaos, Hate". Lots of hate, but quite unfocused ;) --Unsound 17:36, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

- Burzum may very well have inspired the NSBM genre, but that will not say it's one of the founders. Varg has said in his article on A Burzum story: "The Nazi Ghost": (reference):

I have also experienced that most of the people supporting me or what I stand for are so-called "nazis" - while almost everybody else has just condemned me and then boycotted me and everything I have done. What makes me different from the "nazis" are basically three things; unlike them I am not socialistic (not even on a national level), I am not materialistic and I believe in (the ancient Scandinavian!) democracy.

As you can see, he is not a socialist (and not even in a national way), and thus not a nazi. I will not say he doesn't interpretent Odalism in a racist way. He doesn't want to mix with other "colored" people. He says he wants to stick to his culture etc. It is not because he makes a song called "War between the Races" that he has to be a nazi. Some people need to draw a line between racism and Nazism. Also the reason why he made his BM is to boycot the Death metal scene. reference: A Burzum Story: "The Nazi Ghost" Darksteel 14:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

The fragment "war between the races" is most definitely inspired by the works of J.R.R. Tolkien. In case you didn't know, his stories are usually based on fantasy worlds with different races, including humans, elves, orcs etc. Therefore, I am convinced that he is alluding to these races, and not the ones of todays humans. Vikernes has stated in interviews that he was inspired by such works as the ones of Tolkien in the beginning of Burzums creation.

Let's not forget that Burzum's first works were produced al Deathlike Silence Prod., Euronymous' label. Euronymous was member in the most radical communist party in Norway, so Varg's first albums can't be labeled as NS.

I agree, and besides, the NSBM comminity may create music like Black Metal, the scene is totally different and these differences need to shown, and thus, the articles NSBM and Black Metal should be seperated. 80.57.77.199 16:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Euronymous also practiced in a room decked out in both Communist and Nazi flags. www.anus.com 03:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Euronymous maybe a WWII hobbyist, semi-historian or at least an interested of it or he might be a National-Bolshevik. 80.57.77.199 16:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Though NSBM is different from the Black metal scene, it is still a subgenre right? Shouldn't the template be Black Metal instead of just Metal?

how can a nationa socialist be anti christianity? i mean, the church may not be the best thing of he world but it's a important weapon to destroy jews.

I'm glad I can find intelligent thoughts on this page... marnues 06:01, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't Metal music be considered degenerate art by Nazis? It is rather atonal and would be traced back to what Hitler would regard as a negroid form of music. Therefore I can't believe that these people are legitimate National Socialists. Racists, perhaps and perhaps they admire Hitler, but they don't seem to have Nazi art values.

If you want to get down to it, NSs are not nazis. They are tied to NS of 30's and 40's Germany through more general philosophy than any incredible love of the word of Hitler. Besides, there still plenty of people who trace the roots of rock purely to European folk and forget about the whole blues thing. Plus metal itself is a predominantly white form of music. marnues 01:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Who traces rock to European folk music? Tuf-Kat 02:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Anymore, mostly people who can't stand to think the music they love has any ties to African culture. Though it would be difficult to say European music isn't an influence. marnues 04:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Articles for Deletion debate

This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Splashtalk 00:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Famous Bands

If a band isn't famous enough to have a wikipedia entry, it isn't famous enough to be on this list. Other more popular genres might not have this distinction, but here it works wonderfully. marnues 08:54, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Why? People obviously look up the list to see if a band is NSBM or similar. Darksteel 15:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a directory in that sense, however. - Tiswas(t) 14:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Band list

This is starting to turn into a list. If the list is important, consider making a wikipedia list, with a link from this article to that list. Also, the current list should be shortened to the most notable bands. The first band to be in this genre would be a smart choice, and the ones with the most success. I am going to tag this article for clean up, also, because of the list.-- ¢² Connor K.   13:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I removed Satanic Warmaster and Ad Hominem from the list, neither of these bands support NS ideologies although both band are extremely racist and do have lyrical themes that would lead them to be placed in the NSBM scene. Satanic Warmaster stated in a 2003 interview with Terrorizer that they were not NS and that it was a "common misconception" that they were. Ad Hominem states on their official Myspace: "DO NOT WRITE IF : You are not of european descent / You are into any kind of positive religion or politics / You are into "14 words" crap, loving life and believing in white man's rebirth / You are a degenerated scumbag metalhead just finding AH cool (for sure no one will recognize himself here!!)". As a side note I hope the irony of Ad Hominem's name becomes apparent when this is taken into account.


- while an openly racist act, Arghoslent play nothing like black metal, and so cannot be called NSBM. They should not be on an nsbm list


- Astrofaes seem not to be NSBM, but only use Slavonic nationalist poetry as a base for their lyrics. They should be removed from the list.

- I deleted the bands that are not NSBM or that not have a source to prove it. 88.70.175.121 00:51, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strange sentence

"...NSBM might sound not much different from other metal sub-genres".

I don't understand this sentence fully. Is it meant to say "other BLACK metal sub-genres"? Surely even the avarage metal listener would be able to hear quiet a huge difference between NSBM and say Sepultura, Alice Cooper, Metallica or even "industrial" metal like Nine Inch Nails....? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.100.14.48 (talk) 12:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Satanic Warmaster is not NSBM

I disagree with the person who tagged Satanic Warmaster as a NSBM band when there lyrics focus on Facist Occultism and not Nazi ideologies. There are main differances between facism and nazism. Explore the topics more clearer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ilirik666 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sort of OT, but still...

Not that it matters for purposes of this article, but Heydrich was not "head of the gestapo". Well, he was, kind of, but that is like saying the President of the US is the top postal official. Technically it is true (in the sense the President of the US can fire the Postmaster General, and Heydrich could fire the Head of the Geheimestaatspolizei), but it kind of minimizes the person's title. Heydrich was head of the RSHA (Reichsicherheithauptamt, Head Office of Reich Security) which contained the Geheimestaatspolizei("Gestapo"), Sicherheitdeinst (Heydrich's previous command before the RSHA was formed), and Kriminalpolizei (Kripo).

In fact, to be technically exact, Müller was the head of the Gestapo, and Heydrich was his boss. So, I know it is way off topic, but I am going to make a slight alteration and change Heydrich from head of the Gestapo to head of the RSHA within the SS, which is what he really was. (After he was the head of the SD within the SS.)

Sorry, forgot to tack some tildes onto my last comment, so here goes: 76.100.205.82 02:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

-You can find a lot of NSBM bands in Last.fm: THE URL is: http://www.lastfm.es/group/National+Socialist+Black+Metal/connections  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.126.129.68 (talk) 06:45, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Neo-nazi?

I think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.211.47 (talk) 07:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)