Talk:National Scout jamboree (Boy Scouts of America)

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	National Scout jamboree (Boy Scouts of America) is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Styles: This is an article about the Boy Scouts of America. In addition to standard style guides, the Language of Scouting is also used.

Scout is always capitalized in this context; thus title national Scout jamboree is in lower case, except for Scout. The entire term is capitalized only when referring to a specific event; for example: 1977 National Scout Jamboree.

1 Organization
2 2005 jamboree
3 USA centric name
4 Move
5 Jamboree: capitalization rules
6 B-class
7 Funding controversy
8 Improvements
9 Photo
10 Introductory paragraph
11 Rename
12 1957

[edit] Organization

Currently working on a loose description of the Jamboree, including but not limited to:

Basic organization
Joining a Jamboree Troop
Jamboree traditions
Jamboree events
Jamboree shows

Possibly to be branched off into multiple articles, including but not limited to:

List of '05 Subcamps
List of NSJ Wikipedians
List of common activities
patch trading

Please post your comments below or at User:CQJ 04:49, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 2005 jamboree

I'm going to start a new jamboree page, specefically for the 2005 National Scout Jamboree, which will have all the statistics, events that occured etc. I'm also trying to see if the use of scans of patches would be cosidred fair use copyright. If it is, I may start a 2005 national Jamboree patch article. --Beefybot 22:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I just wrote the 2005 article. I put the list of subcamps in that article, do you think they need to be in this article also? --Beefybot 23:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't put the subcamp names in the main Jambo article as they change every Jamboree. Splamo 17:12, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] USA centric name

I should point out that National Scout Jamborees exist in other countries. Shouldn't the name of this article really be something like "United States National Scout Jamboree" while National Scout Jamboree is a redirect to other national Scout Jamborees--Erp 20:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the name of the article should be "National Scout jamboree (Boy Scouts of America)" similar to how the Boy Scouts article is named, see Boy Scouts (Boy Scouts of America). The BSA is a private organization and is not sponsored by the United States government.--Jagz 22:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

See Move below. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move

This article is about the BSA event called the ~~"National Jamboree"~~ "national Scout jamboree". United States in the title implies it is some sort of pan-US event. Thus, the article should be titled "National Scout jamboree (Boy Scouts of America)" --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

You mean it isn't a pan-US event? Which states are not invited? More seriously or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, other Scouting organizations have Jamborees referred to as "National Jamboree" or "National Scout Jamboree" (e.g., Serbia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Pakistan,... by just a quick google search). The BSA does not have a monopoly on the name so something is needed to distinguish it from other National Jamborees. The choices seem to be "United States National Scout Jamboree" or "National Scout Jamboree (United States)". Scout is needed to distinguish it from non-Scout jamborees. If you want to keep the formal name, perhaps "National Jamboree (Boy Scouts of America)" but I thought that was a bit clumsy --Erp 00:22, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The article, as expressed in the lead-in, is specifically about national Scout jamboree of the BSA. It does not include Girl Scouts, SpiralScouts, Camp Fire or any other group. You are correct in that the official title is "national Scout jamboree", thus I will restate that. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I've rewritten the lead in to (a) indicate the official name and (b) link to the page "National Scout Jamboree" which lists other national Scout jamborees (some of which use the name "National Scout Jamboree" and some of which have different names). --Erp 01:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Please either support or oppose with comments as desired:

As it is the title of a specific jamboree held every 4 years the word Jamboree should be capitalized. The other option might be National Scout Jamboree (United States) (the Girl Scouts of the USA don't have national jamborees [at least by that name]). Admittedly I don't know whether other scouting orgs in the US might have national jamborees.--Erp 15:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

See the below comment for cap rules- this is the BSA official style and mainly follows the AP and other style guides. This article has no content relating to any groups other than the BSA. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

See comments in "Jamboree" talk section too. This article is about a BSA event, so we should follow the ScoutingProject standard of (Boy Scouts of America) at the end of the regular title. For the title, National needs to be capitalized because of Wiki conventions and Scout because it is a proper noun in English. This only leave the question of J/jamboree. We should follow what BSA does and use 'j' if a non-specific jambo and 'J' if a specific jambo, so I vote for "National Scout jamboree (Boy Scouts of America). Rlevse 16:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll go with the BSA but I still think it should be capital J in Jamboree. We are talking about a specific jamboree "National Scout Jamboree" that happens every four years not generic national Scout jamborees. We should rename the "National Scout Jamboree" page which is a catch all for national Scout jamborees to "National Scout jamboree". I note that the BSA uses "National Scout Jamboree" as in the phrase "next National Scout Jamboree"[1]. Note there is nothing stopping (as far as I know) a council organizing a jamboree and inviting troops from all over the US to come. It would be a national Scout jamboree but not a National Scout Jamboree. --Erp 00:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

There are inconsistencies in many BSA publications as to the use of caps. Just because the rule isn't always used doesn't mean it's a useless rule. This [2] article in Scouting uses the LoS caps. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

See capitalization style.[3] Jamboree should be capitalized when referring to a specific jamboree like the "1993 National Scout Jamboree".--Jagz 18:31, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Again, see the official BSA definition and useage of jamboree below. I don't think the jamboree police will slam anyone for having a council jamboree. I've never seen one at that level though- it's always been a camporee or some custom name (we use Scouting Adventures for the annual Webelos-Boy Scout camporee, and we've used Draftaree for a mini-camporee of just the units from our community. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

So far: 4 support, 0 opposed, 1 for a capital J, 3 for lower case j. I'll give it a bit more time. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

moved--Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jamboree: capitalization rules

Per the Language of Scouting, the official style guide of the BSA:

jamboree: A term chosen by Baden-Powell to describe the first international gathering of Scouts camping together in London in 1920. The term is restricted to indicate a national or world jamboree. Not capitalized unless in the title of a specific jamboree, as: "1993 National Scout Jamboree" or "19th World Scout Jamboree." The BSA has a national jamboree every four years. See "contingent" regarding the use of the word to describe Scouting groups attending a jamboree.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The OED has entries back to 1868 for jamboree. --Erp 01:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure. This was intended to show the reason for naming the article "National Scout jamboree". --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

LOS is a great tool, but their capitalization is strange to me. They seem to follow the rule that if it's a specific jambo, UC each word (2001 National Scout Jamboree) and if a general ref, only UC "Scout" (national Scout jamboree). Rlevse 16:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Per the AP style, it would be "national scout jamboree", but the BSA always caps "Scout":. The BSA cap rules pretty much use the AP style, with the exception that some Scouting specific terms are always capped. I prefer to use LoS rather than make up our own style. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

From the LoS:

capitalization: In general, avoid unnecessary capitalization. When in doubt, don't capitalize.

Many words and phrases, including special cases, are listed separately in this guide. Entries that are capitalized without further comment should be capitalized in all uses. If there is no relevant listing in this guide for a particular word or phrase, consult the latest edition of Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. Use lowercase if the dictionary lists it as an acceptable form for the sense in which the word is being used.

As used in this book, "capitalize" means to use uppercase for the first letter of a word. If additional capital letters are needed, they are called for by an example or a phrase such as "use all caps."

Following are some Scouting specifics:

Activities. Do not capitalize "pow wow," "camporee," "lunchoree," "jamboree," or "show" unless the reference is to a specific event: Midland District Pow Wow, South Central Camporee, the 1997 National Scout Jamboree, Pioneer Day Scouting Show.
Groups. Do not capitalize "pack," "den," "troop," "patrol," "team," "ship," "crew," "district," "council," "region," or "area" unless the reference is specific: Pack 10, Den 5, Troop 6, Fox Patrol, Ship 2, Central District, Circle Ten Council, Western Region, Area 2.
Headings and Titles of Works. In headings and titles that use uppercase and lowercase letters, capitalize the first letter of the first word, the first letter of the last word, and all other words except "to" in infinitives [Dare to Fly With the Eagles], articles [a, an, the], coordinating conjunctions [and, but, or, nor, for], and prepositions of fewer than four letters [at, by, for, in, of, off, on, per, to, up, via]. Do capitalize prepositions of four letters or more [With, From, Between, After]. Note that subordinating conjunctions [as, if, when] are capitalized [Scouts to Work at Cleanup As Their Good Turn].
Titles of Office or Group Members. Always capitalize Tiger Cub, Wolf Cub Scout, Bear Cub Scout, Webelos Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, Venturer, Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach (Varsity Scout Coach only), Advisor (Venturing Advisor only), Skipper, Scouter, Chief Scout Executive, and Chief Scout of the World. Capitalize other titles only when they precede the name: District Executive Thorpe is working with other district executives; she is the council's Scout executive.
Capitalize the names of nationalities, religious organizations, and tribal or racial groups; do not capitalize group names that refer to color: American, Islamic, Hispanic, African American, Asian, American Indian, black, white.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] B-class

With a little work on refs, wikifying, rm of external jumps, etc, this'd be a B-class artilce. Rlevse 16:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Funding controversy

Recommend that the Funding controversy section be merged into Boy Scouts of America membership controversies#Access to governmental resources. Much of the content is duplicated, and this is taking up a large chunk of the article. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Improvements

Troop centric: expand to include Cub Scouts, Varsity Scout, Sea Scouts and Venturers

--Gadget850 ( Ed)

[edit] Photo

If someone runs across a panoramic photo showing thousands of Scouts at a Jamboree, it would look good in this article. --Jagz 17:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Introductory paragraph

The sentence, "The idea of holding the event on a regular basis did not take root at first with the next jamboree held in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania in 1950.", is inadequate. It references the "next" jamboree without giving any information on when the first jamboree was. --Jagz 18:47, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The first event was in the preceding sentence, but the sentence you cite did need improvement. Check it now, better? --J Clear 19:26, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename

Per the Language of Scouting:

jamboree: A term chosen by Baden-Powell to describe the first international gathering of Scouts camping together in London in 1920. The term is restricted to indicate a national or world jamboree. Not capitalized unless in the title of a specific jamboree, as: "1993 National Scout Jamboree" or "19th World Scout Jamboree." The BSA has a national jamboree every four years. See "contingent" regarding the use of the word to describe Scouting groups attending a jamboree.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Why hasn't the article been renamed yet? This notice is going on a year now. --Jagz 14:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

It was. And unilaterally renamed again this weekend. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 15:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Support renaming with the lowercase. --evrik ^(talk) 16:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

done redirects checked. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:32, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Two articles on individual jamborees are 2005 National Scout Jamboree and 1993 National Scout Jamboree. Shouldn't these be renamed to 2005 National Scout Jamboree (Boy Scouts of America) and 1993 National Scout Jamboree (Boy Scouts of America)? Other countries have National jamborees. --Bduke (talk) 05:48, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Looking at Jamboree (Scouting), none of those listed use the term "national Scout jamboree" other than the BSA. From your area, I see Australian Scout Jamboree. Unless another national Scouting organization actually uses the term, we should not over-disambiguate. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 12:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I do not know whether other countries use the term "National Scout Jamboree", although it seems likely, but renaming them would also be in line with the title of this parent article. --Bduke (talk) 02:04, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I have no real attachment either way. As I understand it, there is no real need to disambiguate in this manner unless there are other articles with very similar names. A Google search shows 41 pages of hits for "national Scout jamboree;" a quick trawl shows all of these are for the BSA event. I don't think there is a need to worry about this until someone comes up with a article. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 03:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Now that I think on it, this article probably did not need to be disambiguated in this manner. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 04:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1957

Whenever someone does an article on the '57 jambo: [4] --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)