Talk:National Rifle Association

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To-do list for National Rifle Association:

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1. Remove criticism section. No, not all the text, that's not fair and NPOV. It would be a less likely target for vandalism if it was more evenly dispersed, as discussed here. “ ... it isn't that we should not include the criticisms, but that the information should be properly incorporated throughout the article rather than having a troll magnet section of random criticisms. ” —Jimbo Wales 2. Incorporate some of the Board of Directors stuff into the article?

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Archives

start-Nov 2006

Contents 1 Removal 2 Board of Directors 3 Heston caption 4 The NRA and the KKK 4.1 Shouldn't Leadership Alone Dubunk Michael Moore? 5 POV tag 6 NRA Rating 7 Criticism in the wake of Columbine

[edit] Removal

I removed the following:

even though statistics have proven otherwise. When the UK established gun control in 1997, homicides went up 60%[1], and the UK now has more crime per capita than the US. Many other countries who established gun control followed in the UK's footsteps[2]. The states with the most gun control are notorious for crime[3], and wherever a shall-issue concealed carry bill gets passed, crime drops[4]. Switzerland has very little crime, yet every adult male is required to own a gun, and assault weapons are readily available.^{[citation needed]}

It's fairly well cited but needs to be moved. It was in the criticism section under From gun control advocates. The section is a rebuttal, which should be placed elsewhere. The section needs to be about what gun control advocates say/do, not what gun rights people respond with. It would be even better under criticism in a gun-control page. Dark jedi requiem 23:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Being Swiss I can assure you that the above is true. There are many guns here in Switzerland and much less crime then in all those places that ban them. Gun Control is a failure... the more you control it, the more the mob does the business and the wrong people get the guns. MESWISS

I'm pro-gun but I reckon such material belongs elsewhere, such as in gun control. —Tamfang 18:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Board of Directors

OK, this was archived, but wanted to reply anyway. Regarding the Board of Directors, my ballot came in yesterday. Feel free to work this into the article any way you want. It is the Feb 2007 issue of America's 1st Freedom. "The Board consists of 76 Directors. The Bylaws require that one-third of the terms of office of 75 expire at each Annual Meeting of Members. One Director will be elected for a one-year term at each Annual Meeting of Members." This 2007 election fills 25 3-year terms (expire 2010) and the 1 1-year.

If you want more specifics on any of these 36 people (30 by the Nominating Committee, 7 by write in but one dupe), lemme know I will try to help. I wikilinked any name I thought would link. Alphabetically listed (randomized on the ballot by Bylaws). Even tho normal wiki-etiquette forbids it, anybody can feel free to edit this post if they know it is the right person. — RevRagnarok ^{Talk Contrib} 02:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Heston caption

I changed the caption to what he actually said. 75.13.228.81 20:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The NRA and the KKK

The Ku Klux Klan were criminalised and deemed a terrorist organisation by the Civil Rights Act of 1871. Coincidentally, the National Rifle Association was founded in the same year. I think this should be mentioned - 82.16.7.63 22:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

This is based on a ridiculous claim that Michael Moore makes in Bowling for Colombine where he implies that the NRA was founded by the KKK members. Mind you he doesn't come out and say it, because of course there is no evidence. Simply listing things that happened in 1871 isn't appropriate for this page, it belongs on the 1871 artible. A simple history of both organizations shows the lack of connection between the groups. Arthurrh 22:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Why, exactly? It's pretty well known that the KKK was interested in disarming blacks, and supported gun control laws which would have a disparate impact on blacks, but I don't know that the NRA was lobbying against gun control back in 1870 - it started as a shooting club kind of operation. User:Argyriou (talk) 22:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Read the histories. First off, as you've pointed out why would a group supporting gun control form a group interested in training people to use guns. Secondly, the individuals who created the KKK were veterans from the Confederate Army. The individuals who founded the NRA were veterans from the Union Army.

Things founded in 1871 (perhaps they're all associated with the KKK) ;-)

• Rossville, KS
• Fargo, ND

Perhaps KKK members were fleeing to less settled areas.

• Union Bank & Trust
• United States Mortgage & Trust

Maybe the KKK guys all went and started banks!

Several colleges were founded that year as well, how nefarious! This was just a few minutes work. Let's not bother with it anymore. Arthurrh

• Hey! Don't forget Baseball! The first Major League Baseball game was played exactly 2 weeks after the Ku Klux Klan Act was passed. Those rascally KKK-ers took time out from their busy schedule of racism, founding towns, banks, and sportsmans groups to give us America's pastime! Those guys sure were busy. Surely the KKK-NRA-MLB connection needs to be mentioned?--SpudHawg948 (talk) 12:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Let's debunk the OP's ridiculous assertion completely. The KKK was founded in 1866, not 1871. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shouldn't Leadership Alone Dubunk Michael Moore?

If one simply examines the previous two NRA Presidents, Sandra S. Froman and Charleton Heston, all claims of bigotry and racism directed toward the NRA fall dead.

Maybe Michael Moore should explain why an organization "founded by the KKK" would elect a Jewish Woman and a prominent civil rights activist as their previous two Presidents.

-So people like you can say things like that.

[edit] POV tag

Why did I add the POV tag? The NRA is subject to a lot of criticism, yet that section is puny. There are only three lines describing the criticism from those in favor of gun control. The section mainly states who critizies the NRA, with the actual criticisms being omitted. The "From gun control advocates" should be as detailed, given an overview of the actual criticism, as the "From other gun rights organizations" sub-section. Regards, Signature^brendel 18:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you have any suggestions for criticisms that should be listed? 98.197.101.8 12:19, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if he does, but I have a serious probably with the image of Charlton Heston placed on here. The caption reads, 'Charlton Heston accepting a presentation rifle at 2000 NRA convention with the now well-known exclamation "From my cold, dead hands!"'

This image does not at all contribute to the article. Taking a screenshot from a Michael Moore documentary (I am of course, referring to Bowling for Columbine) and plastering it up on the NRA page with the quote "From my cold, dead hands!" makes the NRA seem like an armed institution of mental patients. While I personally agree with this portrayal, it is completely unencyclopedic and degrading to the article. After all, the first thing most people look at is the photo captions in an article.

Charlton Heston is not even the president of the NRA anymore, and hasn't been for 5 years. I don't even see why an image of him is necessary at the beginning of the article. Kayne Robinson (http://www.nraleaders.com/kayne-robinson.html) is the president right now, so why don't we put a picture of him up there? And finally, if you decide for some reason that a picture of Charlton Heston is absolutely necessary at the beginning of the article, why not put the image that's on his bio page up? --Chopin-Ate-Liszt! 05:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The image is iconic of the NRA - used by both the NRA and it's detractors. A better choice would be from NRA merchandise with the same picture and similar caption. I will search for this or scan mine. Jimgettman 10:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The picture was probably posted out of pure nostalgia. After all, Charleton Heston was an icon in his own time and one of the NRA's most popular presidents. However, I do agree that the picture may be a little too dated to be placed in the first section of the article. I think the picture would be perfect if placed on Charelton Heston's personal Wikipedia page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.239.229.213 (talk) 17:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Interesting, however the NRA is not a USA founded organisation as implied; The National Rifle Association (now the governing body of fullbore rifle and centre-fire pistol shooting in Great Britain) was founded in 1859, originally to provide a focus for marksmanship for the newly formed corps of volunteers which had been raised to meet the perceived threat of invasion by the French. The NRA was granted Royal Charter in 1894. This Royal Charter continues to this day for the "promotion of marksmanship in the interests of the Defence of Realm and permanence of the Volunteer Forces, Navy military and Air".

The NRA makes no attempts to hide its ‘parenting’ organization. From what I’ve read in one of their own publications the NRA is saddened to see the Anti-Gun measures taken in the UK and the rise in violent crime involving handguns as a result. They mention it as a ‘Beware’ type message. Joliver375 (talk) 02:21, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NRA Rating

I've seen this when dealing with a politician's opinion about gun control. What is it? Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 17:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism in the wake of Columbine

Someone who knows more about it should write about the criticism they received when a few weeks after Columbine, they insisted on having their annual meeting near Littleton. From what I remember it was quite controversial--I believe Moore addressed it in Bowling for Columbine--and I know it shaped a certain amount of public opinion about the organization both in 1999 and when the movie came out. However I've also recently read that actually the group *did* cancel or postpone many meetings in response to the outcry; however, I can't find anything about it on either this page or the Heston page. In light of Heston's recent death (and his "appearance" as the front man for the NRA in the documentary), perhaps it should be detailed exactly what happened. 68.161.99.78 (talk) 03:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)